Libertarian Party ... How I Wish....

[Oh Shoot]

...it had a chance.

From http://www.lp.org/platform:

" 1.6 Self-Defense

The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. We affirm the right to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition."

Whole platform is what the Republican Party SHOULD be (and often claims to be).

- OS

[Guest AeroEngrSoftDevMBA]

The party does have a chance. Now more than ever. There are lots of people out there that are dissollusioned with GOP's policies and stances. Vote Libertarian if your values and beliefs are more closely aligned with the party platform than that of the Republicans. It certainly is this the case for me and a lot of others. If Obama wins it won't be the end of the world. We didn't like Clinton but we got through it. The Dems and the GOP aren't really all that different. Legislative support of FISA, the Patriot Act, and other liberty eroding BS included members of the left and the right. If enough of us vote Libertarian it'll force the GOP to take us into account next time.

I will not be voting for McCain. Some will say that it's the same as a vote for Obama. I say BS. It's not my job to fall in line and goosestep side by side with the rest of the GOP. For me to fall in line with the GOP completely violates the concept of self-determination.

I believe very strongly in self-determination, freedom of expression, personal privacy, right to bear arms, Laissez-faire capitalism, etc. And some will tell you the GOP does too. I say BS. And my main sticking point is religion and the idea of moral values that only exist if they are aligned with the religious right.

Let me keep my guns, let me keep my earnings, and stay the hell out of life and my house (especially my bedroom), and don't worry about what I do on Sunday mornings. Don't bother me and I won't bother you. Then you'll get my vote.

[Guest unreconstructed1]

...it had a chance.

Whole platform is what the Republican Party SHOULD be (and often claims to be).

here is an idea, if you want the libertarian party to succeed, VOTE LIBERTARIAN !

spread the word to your family, your friends, your co-workers, acquaintances, complete Strangers, and any one else you come across.

the ONLY reason so many don't believe that the Libertarian party doesn't stand a chance is the fact that they don't think people will vote Libertarian.

it's a viscious cycle which has been perpetuated for some time now, and is (IMO) the ONLY reason that the Republican and democratic parties are still in existence. I believe that the Libertarian party CAN have a chance if people would start voting that way.

SInce I wish this, I am not content merely to wish for something, I work for it as well. that is why this year, I'm voting libertarian

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

here is an idea, if you want the libertarian party to succeed, VOTE LIBERTARIAN !

And even if you can't bring yourself to vote Lib at the national level, at least get involved in your local party. The road to making the Lib party a consistent national contender starts in your town.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

Most of the Founding Fathers were essentially libertarians--especially the ones we're so fond of quoting.

Perhaps one day we'll summon their courage.

[fury2neon]

here is an idea, if you want the libertarian party to succeed, VOTE LIBERTARIAN !

+1 to that!

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah, I'm thinking I may just HAVE to vote for Barr and have to forget the "practicality" of the whole two party thing. You know, the "a vote for Barr is a vote for ..."

Morally, ethically, logically, and mostly, "Americanly", I just can't go Dem OR Rep this time around, seems.

I've said it several times here, but the whole two-party system has just become a perversion, tyranny really.

Probably the biggest lack of foresight that our founders showed was in not instituting term limits in the Constitution from the get-go. It just never occurred to them that there would be such a thing as a "career politician".

And to repeat myself even further:

If Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and the rest of the boys were around

today, they'd be organizing the citizen militia to overthrow what has

turned into a tyranny worse than the British imposed.

- OS

[Guest unreconstructed1]

Yeah, I'm thinking I may just HAVE to vote for Barr and have to forget the "practicality" of the whole two party thing. You know, the "a vote for Barr is a vote for ..."

exactly my point. to hell with all the "lesser of two evils" bull.

my vote for Barr won't be a vote for McCain, and it won't be a vote for Obama, it'll be a vote for Barr.

It'll be a vote for lesser government

it'll be a vote for the constitution

it'll be a vote for Liberty

it'll be a vote for my right to keep and bear arms

it'll be a vote for the right to defend myself

it'll be a vote for free elections

and most importantly: it'll be a vote that I can continue to look at myself in the mirror after.

will Barr win in '08?

probably not. but when the Libertarian voting record this election is greater than it has been in any election previously, it'll do 2 things. It'll make folks realize that there is a third party, and that they are allowed to vote for that party.

it will also put the Democrats and the Republicans on notice:

we ain't taking your S**T anymore.

[Marswolf]

it will also put the Democrats and the Republicans on notice

[Guest Phantom6]

+1

[Guest Grout]

+2

[Guest canynracer]

Most of the Founding Fathers were essentially libertarians--especially the ones we're so fond of quoting.

Perhaps one day we'll summon their courage.

WOW....thank you for that, I am not quite sure why, but that hit home...HARD...

[DWARREN123]

If we want it to work we have to get behind them.

[wjh2657]

I have been a member of the Libertarian Party since 2001. For the record, prior to Reagan I was a staunch Republican. When I realized that the GOP was not free market and was controlled by Industry Giants, I bailed out. The sad fact is that both parties are controlled by big money and special interest groups and couldn't care less about you and me. Obama'/McCain, it doesn't matter. They both will serve their masters and not us. We apparently have a Supreme Court that is becoming closer and closer to the Constitution, so that is the only safeguard we have. We have professional politicians and they run a professional government. Professional means you do it for the money, and they are real pros! We could vote Mickey Mouse in and it wouldn't change one bit. Have you noticed that neither candidate has said anything about Repealing the Patriot Act and restoring private citizens' rights? The War in Iraq isn't the problem, the War Against the Middle Class is the problem. Join the NRA, vote against anti-gun politicians and pray that the Supreme Court keeps making decisions that let's us keep our guns.

[Marswolf]

About all I know is that the Democrats are thankful that there is a Libertarian Party, and the Republicans are glad there is a Green Party.

[G27]

And even if you can't bring yourself to vote Lib at the national level, at least get involved in your local party. The road to making the Lib party a consistent national contender starts in your town.

THERE'S the answer - thank you for saying this.

[strickj]

Someone explain to me why you want to be left alone,let me be......

but then go on and say you vote for religious believes.

Take abortion for example.Religious nuts say no abortion,but whats it any of your business what someone else does,and wants.

I think it always comes down to let me live how I want to,and you can live how you want to as long if you live like me.

I dont get it!

[Guest AeroEngrSoftDevMBA]

Someone explain to me why you want to be left alone,let me be......

but then go on and say you vote for religious believes.

Take abortion for example.Religious nuts say no abortion,but whats it any of your business what someone else does,and wants.

I think it always comes down to let me live how I want to,and you can live how you want to as long if you live like me.

I dont get it!

You sound libertarian to me, at least on this issue. See the following from the party platform.

1.4 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

I think the main answer to your question is hypocrisy. All religious nuts seem to have the belief that they are chosen, and it's their way or the highway. Despite what their religions may teach about loving thy neighbor, the evils of greed, turn the other cheek, treat others and you'd wish to be treated, etc, the nuts still go around passing judgment and condemning those who aren't like them. And at the same time they hoard their riches while preaching generosity. And they wage war and condone the slaughter of innocents, each side using every prior attack to justify the next. They follow and preach the passages out of their holy books that they agree with and they ignore the passages that they don't like.

I am pretty sure that neither Jesus nor Muhammad ever said, "I want you to love your fellow man, with the following exceptions...", but you wouldn't know it from the way people act towards each other.

Edited August 25, 2008 by AeroEngrSoftDevMBA

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

Someone explain to me why you want to be left alone,let me be......

but then go on and say you vote for religious believes.

Take abortion for example.Religious nuts say no abortion,but whats it any of your business what someone else does,and wants.

I think it always comes down to let me live how I want to,and you can live how you want to as long if you live like me.

I dont get it!

It all boils down to how we define being a "person". If you believe that life begins at conception, then you can easily argue that you're simply attempting to prevent one person (the mother) from killing another person (the child). Libertarians don't argue against the government preventing the unlawful killing of innocent people. They believe that this is a proper and good exercise of government power. If, however, you believe that life begins at some point later than conception, then, obviously, you feel it's the mother's choice (and no one else's business) what she does with her body before the point at which the zygote/fetus/whatever becomes a person.

NOW..........I am not taking a stand one way or the other by the above statement. I am also NOT interested in debating abortion in this thread. Seriously.

[TGO David]

exactly my point. to hell with all the "lesser of two evils" bull.

my vote for Barr won't be a vote for McCain, and it won't be a vote for Obama, it'll be a vote for Barr.

It'll be a vote for lesser government

it'll be a vote for the constitution

it'll be a vote for Liberty

it'll be a vote for my right to keep and bear arms

it'll be a vote for the right to defend myself

it'll be a vote for free elections

and most importantly: it'll be a vote that I can continue to look at myself in the mirror after.

will Barr win in '08?

probably not. but when the Libertarian voting record this election is greater than it has been in any election previously, it'll do 2 things. It'll make folks realize that there is a third party, and that they are allowed to vote for that party.

it will also put the Democrats and the Republicans on notice:

we ain't taking your S**T anymore.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

That's a poor analogy, man.

Quixote had no reason to challenge the windmill. Surely you wouldn't say that a Constitutionalist has no reason to challenge our current system, right?

[TGO David]

That's a poor analogy, man.

Quixote had no reason to challenge the windmill. Surely you wouldn't say that a Constitutionalist has no reason to challenge our current system, right?

Are you sure you aren't a relativist? Because, frankly, who cares what the reason when the outcome is still just as frustrating and futile.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

Are you sure you aren't a relativist? Because, frankly, who cares what the reason when the outcome is still just as frustrating and futile.

It's difficult to have serious debate with someone who has no conviction. They are easily corrupted and morally shiftless.

The only futility and frustration in voting is the hopelessness and fear that drives a lesser-of-two-evils vote for a gun-grabbing, big government statist like McCain. But, hey, maybe we'll finally get that gun show loophole shored up for good! And we all know how registration and micro-stamping are long overdue.

The outcome for me, regardless of the outcome of the election, will be that small bit of satisfaction that comes with the knowledge that I wasn't a sheep or a coward. At least I tried, and at least I satisfied the demands of my conscience.

[TGO David]

The outcome for me, regardless of the outcome of the election, will be that small bit of satisfaction that comes with the knowledge that I wasn't a sheep or a coward. At least I tried, and at least I satisfied the demands of my conscience.

And your small reward of self-satisfaction might come at the cost of us all losing our right to keep and bear arms if Obama/Biden win as a the result of a small margin. A margin that could have otherwise been offset if the Third Party idealists hadn't been so narrow minded in their pursuit of "sending a clear message to the GOP and DNC". What's the old addage about cutting your nose off to spite your face?

I'll bookmark this thread so that I can come back in November and thank you for this if it comes to pass.

[Guest AeroEngrSoftDevMBA]

And your small reward of self-satisfaction might come at the cost of us all losing our right to keep and bear arms if Obama/Biden win as a the result of a small margin. A margin that could have otherwise been offset if the Third Party idealists hadn't been so narrow minded in their pursuit of "sending a clear message to the GOP and DNC". What's the old addage about cutting your nose off to spite your face?

I'll bookmark this thread so that I can come back in November and thank you for this if it comes to pass.

I really think the threat to the second amendment is a little overblown in relation to the presidency. We are not going to LOSE our right to keep and bear arms just because one guy or another wins the election.

3/4 of the states are necessary to ratify any amendment to the Constitution. Neither the president nor the U.S. congress can do anything without the approval of the states.

Yes, the president does nominate members of the SC. And yes, the Heller case was close at 5-4. So I'm not saying there isn't cause for concern. I just don't think the situation is THAT grave.

Call me naive, but I'm just not too worried about it. Plus, I can guarantee you the gov't is not taking my guns, period. Interpret that statement how you may.