Cop threatens to shoot lawful CC owner, then arrests him!

[RobertNashville]

and the cop is now facing felony charges
 

“Put your hands right there or I’ll shoot you in the f**king back!”
 

Deputy Andy Cox is facing a federal lawsuit after he harassed and detained a legal concealed carry permit owner for “displaying” his gun.
 
In July of 2009, Citrus County resident Joel Smith and his wife were detained at a traffic stop for non-criminal traffic code violation. During the stop, Mr. Smith exited his vehicle to speak with Citrus County deputy Andy Cox, who asked Mr. Smith for proof of insurance for the vehicle.  Mr. Smith turned with his back toward the officer and leaned into the vehicle to retrieve the document at which time his lawfully carried and holstered firearm peeked out from under his shirt.

Florida Carry consulting attorney J. Patrick Buckley III who is also representing Mr. Smith in the case summed up the case:

“Improper law enforcement training coupled with an emotional overreaction is detrimental to the civil rights of Floridians. When a Constitutional officer then delays the resulting internal investigation to permit the untrained officer to walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist, it illustrates a systematic absence of accountability in those we trust to protect us.”

Joining Mr. Smith as plaintiff, Florida Carry is representing its membership and millions of Florida gun owners in the lawsuit. Named as defendants are Deputy Andy Cox, Sergeant Dave Fields, Sheriff Jeffrey Dawsy, and Citrus County. The plaintiffs are represented by the Law Offices of J. Patrick Buckley III, located in Fort Myers, FL.

 

LINK:  http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/cop-threatens-shoot-concealed-carry-owner-arrests-now-officer-facing-federal-lawsuit-video/#.Uivewj_Byxh

Edited September 8, 2013 by RobertNashville

[TNcitizen22]

Deputy Cox is a dick.

 

Someone that needlessly explosive does not need to be in LE.

[Luke E.]

I do love a good uncovered "cover up".

[RobertNashville]

They don't give the LEO's age but my suspicion for quite a while now is that the younger the cop the more likely it is that he/she will have the attitude that only "professionals" should be allowed to carry arms.

 

I don't know if you can chalk it up to the overall culture of our society today or the results of the anti-gun attidude of public schools (and those who teach in them) or even if those things are so interwined that they can't be separated???  I suppose it could also be the difference betweena cop with a lot of experience and one without out.

 

Whatever it is, I hope they properly punish this cop for his actions.

[leroy]

I'd say the county is in big financial trouble... . I aint sure that it will bother the "perpetrators" too much; they probably aint got too much money...

The folks in Citrus County need to know how their law enforcement is workin out for 'em; and vote accordingly... . My guess is that they aint gonna like this one, if it's still around...

 

leroy

[Erik88]

Man Robert, you've been in a cop bashing mood for a while now.  :cool:

 

I do agree this was a huge over reaction by the officer. The statement "why are you carrying a guy" says a lot.

 

This is why I continually tell people not to bitch about open carry. Once you live in a state where it's not legal you will realize how important that right is and I really hope Florida eventually changes the law. The reality is that open carry is more controversial to the members of TGO than it is the general public. 

 

Florida Carry is a group of lawyers that are also huge gun advocates, they do a lot down here to help the cause and I wish every state had something similar. 

[RobertNashville]

Farnkly, while it probably puts me in the minority here, I'd rather see those who carry observe TN law as it was intended by the legislature and passed in 1996. That is, not as blanket permission to open carry but as a protection against exactly the sort of thing going on in Florida; that is, attempting to prosecute permitted people for the accidential/unintentional revelation of their carry weapon which in some states can carry serious charges.

 

However, this thread is not about how one carries but the out of control actions of this one police officer; one that I hope is appropriately punished for his behavior.

Edited September 8, 2013 by RobertNashville

[camp]

i wonder if the driver presented his HCP to the office when he was first pulled over as he should have , if so it should not have suprised the officer that he was carrying

[Erik88]

i wonder if the driver presented his HCP to the office when he was first pulled over as he should have , if so it should not have suprised the officer that he was carrying

 

This happened in Florida and he is not required to show his concealed weapon license. Nor would he have been in TN.

 

Encouraged? Yes. Required? No.

[RobertNashville]

i wonder if the driver presented his HCP to the office when he was first pulled over as he should have , if so it should not have suprised the officer that he was carrying

There is nothing to indicate that he did but I he probably should have.

 

Every instructor I've ever had when discussing this subject has indicted that we should do so when pulled over/we encounter a LEO for at least two reasons, one being that it can perhaps avoid a sitiation like we ahve in this case and second, if you do so consistently then you don't have to remember whether the particulare state you are in requires it or not.

 

In this case, however, I doubt that the situaion could have been avoided...this cop was simply out of control.

[TMF]

I hope he gets boatloads of money and bankrupts this department. This is clearly organizational. I don't see why any department would support this kind of behavior, but the ones that do need to be hit in the wallet so that all suffer from it. This will keep future cops from doing the same or standing by as their partners do similar activities.

[bersaguy]

I think it must have been a rookie but even if he was seasoned officer he needs to know he is a police officer that lives in a state that allows people to be armed and it really should not have been that much of a surprise to him. I don't know how many folks here in Tennessee know it but when a LEO stops you 99.9% of the time they run your car plates any times before the stop but almost every time after the stop before they approach your vehicle. Your license plates inform the officer that you do have a carry permit and you may be armed. I didn't know it till I had a Trooper stop me about 2 year ago for a minor infraction for which I was not even ticketed. When the police Officer approached my door I had my window down. He requested my drivers license. Proof of insurance and if I was armed at the time he requested to see my carry permit. I provided him with all he requested. He told me that I had a tail light not working and needed to get it fixed. I told him I would do so the following morning. He handed me all of my papers back and actually thanked me. I asked him why he thanked me and his reply was for taking the responsibility to assist us in protecting you and your family and with that he returned to his Squad car. Super nice LEO and did it by the book but that was when i learned that if you have a carry permit it is tied to your license plates of your car or truck also alerting the officers so they will not be caught off guard at the sight of a gun. I think that might be something all states might want to look into doing..........jmho

[Wheelgunner]

Deputy Cox is a dick.

 

Someone that needlessly explosive does not need to be in LE.

(LOL!)

 

You hit the nail on the head though.  "Needlessly explosive."  If Citrus County keeps him on the force, it's just a matter of time before he shoots somebody for having a tinfoil wrapped sandwich in their hand. 

[wvglockguy]

My family lives in Citrus county and I'm visiting at this time. Makes me miss being in Tn badly. Here I'm always checking to make sure my shirt doesn't blow open, specially visiting dad at the hospital. I know most police would have no problem just check a permit and go on, but there's always that one.

[DaveS]

I wonder if their is any more to this story?

 

DaveS

[Erik88]

I hope he gets boatloads of money and bankrupts this department. This is clearly organizational. I don't see why any department would support this kind of behavior, but the ones that do need to be hit in the wallet so that all suffer from it. This will keep future cops from doing the same or standing by as their partners do similar activities.

 

You want to entire department to be bankrupt because of one officers actions? How do you know his actions represents the entire department?

[c.a.willard]

Not to put words in TMF's mouth but i think the point he is trying to make is that when an officer does something like this and another one helps cover for them it impugns the integrity of the entire department.  Bad officers exist and they must be held accountable for their actions.  When a department fails to hold that officer accountable for his actions they assume that accountability themselves.  That is what leadership is all about. 

[bersaguy]

(LOL!)

 

You hit the nail on the head though.  "Needlessly explosive."  If Citrus County keeps him on the force, it's just a matter of time before he shoots somebody for having a tinfoil wrapped sandwich in their hand. 

Extremely explosive or unreasonably and extremely scared of his job and either one of them is a recipe for serious trouble

Edited September 9, 2013 by bersaguy

[TMF]

You want to entire department to be bankrupt because of one officers actions? How do you know his actions represents the entire department?

Yes, I do. I'm certain that his actions don't represent the entire department. That's not the point. The point is that somewhere in his career and in his chain of command, this behavior was acceptable; that's the reason he reacted this way. Then the subsequent cover of the department on this guy tells me what I need to know. The department should have immediately distanced themselves from this lunatic, fired him, charged him then looked to settle out of court with the victim. They chose to do the wrong thing. Ask yourself why. When you answer that question then you'll understand why that department deserves to get sued into the stone age.

[Oh Shoot]

Farnkly, while it probably puts me in the minority here, I'd rather see those who carry observe TN law as it was intended by the legislature and passed in 1996. That is, not as blanket permission to open carry but as a protection against exactly the sort of thing going on in Florida; that is, attempting to prosecute permitted people for the accidential/unintentional revelation of their carry weapon which in some states can carry serious charges.

 

You know, I see people state that from time to time, but I have never seen one actual source that such was the case .. like from whoever actually crafted the language of the bill, etc. You know of a source?

 

- OS

[RobertNashville]

You know, I see people state that from time to time, but I have never seen one actual source that such was the case .. like from whoever actually crafted the language of the bill, etc. You know of a source?

 

- OS

I had just moved to Tennessee when the original bill was being debated/passed so I'm going by two things; my own memory of what I was hearing at the time and what Ron Ramsey told me was the intent (at the time he told me I believed him although given his recent actions with regards to firearm legislation/honesty trusting him to tell the truth may have been a foolish thing to do)

 

So...I've never tried to confirm it but I would assume such data is in the archives somewhere.  :shrug:
 

The AG opinion 05-154 makes it pretty clear that Tennessee doesn’t require concealment and goes on to say that had the legislature wanted concealment they would have said so but frankly, I don’t think the opinion really attempts to deal with the more subtle intent I’m referring to.  Anyway, if I get a chance I’ll try to research it more as it’s an interesting question!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2013 by RobertNashville

[monkeylizard]

After what he has said about the parking lot bill, if I had an explanation of legislative intent from Ron Ramsey in one hand, and a pile of dog poop in the other, I'd have 2 handfulls of dog poop.

 

I don't know the man, and don't mean to impugn his character, but anyone with a 5th grade reading level could see that the bill doesn't say what he said it says. I don't know why he seemed shocked to hear that the AG also thinks it doesn't say what he said it says.

Edited September 9, 2013 by monkeylizard

[Luke E.]

I'm not sure that it would have changed much if the guy had mentioned his permit in this case because it sounds like the LEO was a bomb looking for a place to go off. And even worse is the fact that some of his colleagues were willing to try to cover it up. For those reasons I agree, that Dept. should have its crotch sued off and any other dept. that is willing to play the cover up game should meet the same fate.
The 3 times that I've been faced with the decision whether or not to volunteer my armed/unarmed status I have chosen to tell them as soon as they came to the window. I was only pulled over once for speeding and it was 23mph over, I have no doubt that I was about to have a ticket written to me but instead it turned into a gun discussion and I would have been happy to have discussed guns anyhow so the lack of a ticket was a bonus. I will continue to base my decision to inform on the situation but in most any situation I can dream myself into, I will inform.

[monkeylizard]

And even worse is the fact that some of his colleagues were willing to try to cover it up.

 

That's the key.

[monkeylizard]

I started a new thread on legislative intent to keep from derailing this one any further. I think this side-bar conversation has some valid discussion left in it, so here we go: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/70011-legislative-intent/

 

 

 

 

 

ETA: Robert quoted me before I edited this post with the link to the new thread.

Edited September 9, 2013 by monkeylizard