ATF Changes Definition of “Manufacturer�

[DaveTN]

If you had the facility, why would a type 01 dealer not just get a type 07 manufactures license?

[DaveTN]

While you all know I'm no conspiracy nut ......... the ATF is using mind policing policies. This is what I don't like. It is so open to interpretation the ATF can really enforce anything they want. How can they determine intent. Some cases are easy, but every case "could be" intent. How do disprove your own personal thoughts? How do you prove your thoughts?

I would guess the same way any other offense would be determined…. In a court. State of mind and intent is a factor in many criminal cases.

We have access to the written law, but most of us don’t have the ability to research case law. The case law is just as important as the written law.

[DRM]

I think some of you guys are missing an important part of how this is worded.

Generally, a person should obtain a license as a manufacturer of firearms if

the person:

1) this;

2) that;

and

3) this.

That means you have to fall under ALL 3 of those to fall under the first sentence.

[The Average Joe]

It may be a strech, but:

Let's say, for the sake of argument, I find a used S&W model 60 that the Rabi is selling. I buy it, clean it up, (altering the gun by removing the finish) and replace the grips, then resell it for a profit. I would technicly need a manufacturer's license!

I can't seriously see this being enforced.

BTW:The codes officials in my town would want you to purchase a building permit everytime you paint the rooms in your home, mow your lawn, or pour a fresh load of gravel on your driveway.....but that ain't gonna happen, either.

[DavidD]

I can't seriously see this being enforced.

BTW:The codes officials in my town would want you to purchase a building permit everytime you paint the rooms in your home, mow your lawn, or pour a fresh load of gravel on your driveway.....but that ain't gonna happen, either.

Not to mention what they'd want you to do if they knew about the Evil Black Rifles you were building

[TGO David]

I'm starting to see why we have so many ridiculous and needlessly complex laws on the books. Namely, because people insist on splitting hairs and proposing absurd scenarios asking "Does this qualify? No? Well what about this? No? How about this then?"

It seems pretty clear to me what intent to manufacture means. It also seems pretty clear to me who the ATF is sending a warning to in that brief. Hint: It's not the guy sitting at home, putting together his own AR15 out of parts, for his own personal use.

[strickj]

It seems pretty clear to me what intent to manufacture means. It also seems pretty clear to me who the ATF is sending a warning to in that brief. Hint: It's not the guy sitting at home, putting together his own AR15 out of parts, for his own personal use.

Tell that to that helicopter thats been hovering above my house for the past two days since mine was put together

[DRM]

It seems pretty clear to me what intent to manufacture means. It also seems pretty clear to me who the ATF is sending a warning to in that brief. Hint: It's not the guy sitting at home, putting together his own AR15 out of parts, for his own personal use.

Like I said - the language of the document makes it pretty clear that it has NOTHING to do with the average guy.

[TGO David]

Tell that to that helicopter thats been hovering above my house for the past two days since mine was put together

Your problem is you keep buying copies of The Catcher In The Rye and won't listen to me when I tell you to just order from Amazon and have them delivered to an anonymous PO Box.

[strickj]

Your problem is you keep buying copies of The Catcher In The Rye and won't listen to me when I tell you to just order from Amazon and have them delivered to an anonymous PO Box.

Dan git! I knew I shouldn't have ordered just the pictures from CiTR

[Guest strelcevina]

I think the ATF sees a bunch of people making EBGs (Evil Black Guns) from parts and wants to stop that.

+1

and it will stop all those KIT guns to, like AK 47 and others.

they see that do to Internet forums and Google search, everybody can build any gun.

and for those who think, that this is not effecting us who putting together own AR15 out of parts, for own personal use. just try to sell it:cool:

remember that guy with M16 parts in his AR15, that it went full auto on gun range. he is regular Joe.

now he is worry to drop a soap in the shower.for next who knows how many years

[Marswolf]

I'm not going to get dragged into that conversation again, but that wasn't the situation.

[DRM]

and for those who think, that this is not effecting us who putting together own AR15 out of parts, for own personal use. just try to sell it:cool:

Are you guys intentionally ignoring what I said, or what?

It has NO effect on the average guy putting together an AR for himself then selling it, UNLESS he meets ALL three of the conditions stated.

[Guest jwp]

Unless you are hitting the magic number of guns made per year and/or sold per year and then you're either a dealer or a manufacturer.

[stir the pot]

[Guest strelcevina]

Are you guys intentionally ignoring what I said, or what?

It has NO effect on the average guy putting together an AR for himself then selling it, UNLESS he meets ALL three of the conditions stated.

I'm not ignoring your statements at all. you make sense.

BUT tray to see it this way.

Generally, a person should obtain a license as a manufacturer of firearms if

the person:

1) this; --- i didperform operations that create firearms" i build AR 15 from parts.

2) that; is performing the operations as a regular course of business or trade. Dont know???????

and

3) this. i am performing the operations for the purpose of sale. i wont to sell it

so it looks if i sell my self build AR 15 , i broke 2 from 3 laws.

and what does 2nd one means.

what if i newer sold a gun before, but i buy guns as a regular course of business. am i guilty. who decade this

who will take chance to go to prison with federal charge,

i wont, i can tell you so much.

[Guest mw.]

Unless you are hitting the magic number of guns made per year and/or sold per year and then you're either a dealer or a manufacturer.

[stir the pot]

And that magic number is what?

[DaveTN]

what if i newer sold a gun before, but i buy guns as a regular course of business. am i guilty. who decade this

If you aren’t selling them how is a regular course of business? It’s just collecting.

Buy all you want. It’s like cars… you can buy all you want, but there is a limit on the number you can sell before you need a business license. The IRS bites much harder than the ATF.

[Guest mikedwood]

Wow, that's a trip. I think they really have a hard time with the 2nd amendment.

I bet the odds of someone using a $1,000 plus gun to commit a crime are very very low.