Odd failure at the range

[BigK]

I took my Gen 4 Glock 17 on a rare trip to the range Monday. First round was perfect, but second round results in a click...nothing. Tried to rack the slide for the next round and it wouldn't budge.

When I got it home, I took a closer look and saw nothing out of the ordinary. As much as I hated fiddling with it with a live round in chamber I had to figure out what was wrong. So, after fashioning a safe backstop with some wood, I used a wee bit more force (read: rubber mallet) and got it to move about 1/8", which was enough for me to remove the slide. After removing the recoil spring, I still had to tap the top of the barrel to get it out of the slide.

I see absolutely no damage whatsoever. The gun cycles ammo by hand without getting stuck. The firing pin seems to be fine too. Edited September 4, 2013 by BigK

[BigK]

For the barrel to be wedged into the slide like that, I figured the stuck round must be WAY out of spec.

OAL: 1.135"...well below the 1.169" max for 9mm
Brass length: 0.748"...well below the 0.754 max for 9mm

Only thing wrong with the round was that the primer didn't seat fully and had been flattened a little by my press...definitely not mangled, though. In fact, including the jutting primer, the brass was only 0.753", which shouldn't have had any issues with headspace.

Any ideas, guys?

[Danger Rane]

Yikes! Sounds like a bummer range day. I'm curious to hear what you figure out. You mentioned a press, so presuming this was a reload? If not do you mind sharing which brand of ammo?

[LI0NSFAN]

I remember reading a similar story over on glock talk about six mo ago. I will see if I can find the thread again, there were several people had the same thing happen. I was looking around to figure out what was going on with my Glock when it would not cycle. I had a totally different issue so it did not help me but it might help you.

Ok so easier to find than I thought, here it is http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1177416 Edited September 4, 2013 by LI0NSFAN

[Raoul]

Perhaps the case mouth was too wide.

[graycrait]

What kind of ammo was it?

[RED333]

If a reload, the boolet was hanging at the throat.

Was the round hard to get of the chamber?

[chances R]

Not enough info.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The bullet you are using has an ogive that is farther out than the one listed as your reference. I have seen it a lot. My reloads must be loaded to a OAL of 1.072". Any longer and the slide will not go into battery.

 

You will likely find some marks on the bullet from it being shoved into the throat.

 

This was the result of the same thing:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/65730-ohshoot-almost-got-shot-today-idiots-dont-need-to-own-guns/?hl=killed

Edited September 4, 2013 by Dolomite_supafly

[BigK]

In case I wasn't clear enough, I was shooting reloads. Same recipe I've used thousands of times: Berry's 115 gr plated bullet over 4.2 gr of Bullseye @ 1.125" COL, crimped to 0.376".

 

Only oddity about the recovered round was that the primer was not seated completely and the face of the primer that gets struck was slightly flattened as a result. This is likely why the round did not go off when I pulled the trigger.

 

However, even with the primer not fully seated, the OAL and brass length was within spec. I'm still baffled why it locked the barrel so tightly in the slide.

 

I read the link above (thanks LionsFan), but it offered no definitive answer either.

[BigK]

The bullet you are using has an ogive that is farther out than the one listed as your reference. I have seen it a lot. My reloads must be loaded to a OAL of 1.072". Any longer and the slide will not go into battery.

 

You will likely find some marks on the bullet from it being shoved into the throat.

 

This was the result of the same thing:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/65730-ohshoot-almost-got-shot-today-idiots-dont-need-to-own-guns/?hl=killed

 

I have to pay especially close attention to ogive because my main shooters are CZs. Their rifling begins closer to the chamber than any gun I've seen. I use a drop test to determine whether they will fit. I "paint" the exposed bullet with black Sharpie, drop it into the chamber of a naked barrel, give the headstamp a gentle tap with my finger and turn it upside down.

 

At 1.125" the ogive on these Berry's bullets is good in my CZs, there are no rifling marks on the Sharpie ink and the cartridge falls freely from the barrel. I haven't run this test on the Glock in a while. So, as soon as I get home today, I'll perform the same test and post the results.

 

Thanks for the input.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have had bullets in the same lot have very different ogive profiles. Almost like the stroke wasn't all the way on the swager.

[RED333]

I am telling ya, the boolit was hung in the throat. (dont ask how I know this)

Alright I will tell on myself, we loaded 1000 wrong, had to pull and redo.

The extractor caught the case, boolit hung and you could not pull the

round out of the barrel. Well till ya got home and forced it out.

Edited September 5, 2013 by RED333

[chances R]

I have fought this problem as well, especially in my .45ACP - Sig 1911 specifically. Seating the bullet a couple of thousands deeper generally solves the issue. I have actually 'pulled' the case away from the bullet trying to extract. Keep a wooden dowel handy for times like these.

[tmauto769]

Had an XDm 9 that would do the same if I loaded flat nosed bullets to an oal of 1.130" or longer, round nose was fine at that length but not the flat nosed ones.

[BigK]

You guys have me feeling stupid. I don't get what you're saying about the bullet getting stuck in the barrel. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying that's not it...just trying to understand, because I'm clearly having a stupid moment.

 

The base of the brass was pressed against the breechface of the slide so tightly that the barrel and slide were locked together when I removed the slide from the frame. For there to be that much pressure against the rear of the cartridge, it'd seem to me that bullet had to be stuck or the brass was too long. So, I get that part...what you guys are saying makes sense.

 

What I'm not understanding is that the recovered bullet seems way too short for this to even happen, yet clearly it did...duh. That bullet's ogive would have to be way out of whack, but I haven't checked, so maybe that's it. What I did try was putting some empty brass from the same batch of reloads into the chamber and dropping the slide. Surprised me that the gun still locked up with 5 different pieces of brass from the same batch. Not one single piece of brass is over 0.75". Isn't that weird?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Without doing a casting of your chamber there is no easy way to see how big the throat is. I have seen guns without a throat at all and just a slight chamfer of the rifling.

I would be willing to bet if you seated all your loaded bullets deeper by .02" your problem will disappear or less obvious.

[BigK]

I'll give that a try and see if the slide still locks up with the barrel like it's doing with the spent brass.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Ok, I misread that you were having the same problem with your empty brass.

 

What kind of dies are you using?

 

Also, when sizing does the die itself touch the shell holder? The die MUST bottom out on the shell holder. Knocking the primer out is not enough, the sizing die must go all the way to the bottom.

[BigK]

I recently upgraded my Lee dies that I was using in my Dillon 650 for Hornady dies. The sizing/decapping die is the only one that can be screwed down all the way. It's setup so that when the shellplate is all the way up I can just slide an index card under the bottom of the die. So, it's not "really" touching the shellplate, but it's pretty darn close. That's how I was advised to do it when I was learning. BTW...thanks for asking all these questions and taking time to really help me figure this out. I honestly appreciate it. Edited September 7, 2013 by BigK

[Dolomite_supafly]

They do need to touch. The way that was describe is how you setup rifle dies for use with a specific rifle, not pistol. I set mine up by putting the handle all the way down. Then I screw the die in until the handle just barely moves then I lock it in place. For the seater die I take a piece of factory brass and put it into the shell holder. I loosen the bullet seater by about a 1/4". This ensures the die will not bottom out on the bullet intead of the case. Now I put the handle all the way down again with the loaded round in the shell holder. I turn the seater die, not the pin, in until the handle moves about the same amount again then locks it in place. Next I turn the seater pin in until it hard stops and lock it in place. This will ensure the loaded round should be the same as a factory round.

 

Do one thing to check somethign for me. Run a few lines down the case with a sharpie. Like 5-6 lines at various places around the casing. Then chamber them again. Where the sharpie wears off is where the additional sizing needs to happen. I bet it is at the base. Even though you are only a playing card away from being to the bottom it is a lot more because of the casings angle.

[RED333]

Dolomite might be on to something, look for a bulge.

[ohell]

we gauge every round we make before it goes in the box.  good habit to have even if it is a pistol round.  

the only experience i have with barry's is HBWC so can't comment on consistency :)  

[leroy]

ohell makes a good point in the post above...  I have learned (...the hard way, of course...) that it's best to gage every round that goes thru a semiauto (...pistol or rifle...) before it leaves the loading bench.  The gages are in the neighborhood of $25... Dollars well spent... It fixes the jambing and cycling problems for the most part...

 

leroy