Rant: FFL transfers

[Marswolf]

My goodness. Such agitation. Not worth getting upset about. Just go to another place to do the transfer.

But I will relate one personal story. Several years ago I bought an AK on an auction site. I called one local shop and asked how much he wanted for a transfer. The answer was $30+10. Another guy I found out about did it for $15+10. I felt like dealer #1 was being ridiculous and it did upset me. Needless to say, the $15 guy did the transfer for me. I eventually bought a number of guns from the $30 guy, but not before a couple of years had passed and maybe 10 gun purchases at other shops. I never even asked him for a price. So, I don't know how much he would have made on 10 guns, but I'm sure it would have been a lot more than $15. It really is not good business to try to stick it to a customer.

[DRM]

We charge a $25 transfer fee normally to random_customer_01, but since it means taking a potential customer away from FGS, I will do it for free, this once. We are about 25min from Nashville occording to how you drive.

But lets be honest, it takes about 1 minute to log in a gun, and depending on the POS system you use, 2-5 minutes to put the gun in your system. $50 to do a transfer is outrageous. Hell, some people think 25 is outrageous.

EDIT: I'm also drunk, so get it while the getting is good.

Then I might just have to come see you tomorrow @ lunch.

With a print out of this thread, in case you sober up

[jay1313g]

At least you guys in the rest of the state aren't dealing with Guns and Ammo in Memphis. They do have a $100 transfer fee but at least they give you tons of attitude with it!

[TripleDigitRide]

Because it is Franklin Gun shop. There are many others in Nashville that will do you much better. Phil at Bellshire Hardware is a great place.

+1 +1

Isnt there a shop in East Nashville that does free transfers?

I thought there was some old guy that only charged the 10.00 TICS fee, just to get people to come talk to him at his shop

Now there's a Kosher response if I've ever seen one.

yea but you actually have to interact with him. id rather pay $25 somewhere else

I'll see your $25, and raise another $25.

[Smith]

We charge a $25 transfer fee normally to random_customer_01, but since it means taking a potential customer away from FGS, I will do it for free, this once. We are about 25min from Nashville occording to how you drive.

But lets be honest, it takes about 1 minute to log in a gun, and depending on the POS system you use, 2-5 minutes to put the gun in your system. $50 to do a transfer is outrageous. Hell, some people think 25 is outrageous.

EDIT: I'm also drunk, so get it while the getting is good.

Now I know how to get a free transfer next time!

[DRM]

At least you guys in the rest of the state aren't dealing with Guns and Ammo in Memphis. They do have a $100 transfer fee but at least they give you tons of attitude with it!

Do they seriously charge that? Wow...

[Guest grimel]

I just have to pick on you, but where do you get an 'hour' to:

1. find out what i need and take my money

2. fax or email FFL to gun manufacturer

3. receive item in mail

4. log serial numbers

5. call me and tell me it's in

Let's assign a generous 10 minutes to #1 - maybe it takes a while for me to say "I need an AK755 receiver" and hand him the form I've already filled out telling him where to send the FFL.

#2 can't take more than 5 minutes - I mean, it's a fax for goodness sake, not a smoke signal or a telegraph, stop.

#3 we'll assign 5 minutes to sign for the package and put it on a shelf - if I can run a mile in that time, he can walk across the room.

#4 we'll assign a generous 10 minutes - maybe he writes slow.

#5 takes 2 minutes, TOPS - assuming a rotary phone.

That's 32 minutes - and that's being quite generous...

So how are you getting an hour out of those few items?

EDIT* oh, and even saying all of that, I will still agree that $25 is not unreasonable for the service.

Hmm, that assumes he only has to call you once or leave one message. It assumes no problems with the fax at either end. It assumes a small shop with little going on. And you left out hassles with idiot FFL holders who send guns to places other than the receiving FFL's place of business. Oh, and you left out the time it takes for TICS and filing the 4473 (assuming the TICS goes well and no waiting, no hold, no down computer).

Just in case you are wondering, I've done this a time or three. Phantom even made me a deal, do 10 in one month and the 11th is free.

You can not base your fee on a perfect transaction. That is a good way to go out of business.

[Guest jackdog]

my hardware store in dover Does them for free for regular customers. They charge 10.00 for someone they don't know, so that is a good deal. Someone told me 50.00 bucks they would see my cute butt going out the door and never be seeing me again. BTW wifey says I have a cute butt.

[DRM]

Hmm, that assumes he only has to call you once or leave one message.

Fine, double it - 4 minutes.

It assumes no problems with the fax at either end.

Fine - double that too - 10 minutes (even ignoring the option to email it, which is even faster and easier).

And you left out hassles with idiot FFL holders who send guns to places other than the receiving FFL's place of business.

It's the manufacturer - I'd hope he has the process worked out better than that.

Oh, and you left out the time it takes for TICS and filing the 4473 (assuming the TICS goes well and no waiting, no hold, no down computer).

That's the background check? I was assuming the other $10 for that was reason enough to not include it in the $50 breakdown.

You can not base your fee on a perfect transaction. That is a good way to go out of business.

I didn't - I was generous with the time. And even doubling the time for the items you questioned, it's still less than an hour's time, EASY.

[bubbadavis]

The only problem with going to Guns and Leather for a transfer is all the other goodies you'll want to buy... I think I've been there a total of four times and have a Sig and a 1911 to show for it! They've always been friendly and easy to deal with.

We charge a $25 transfer fee normally to random_customer_01, but since it means taking a potential customer away from FGS, I will do it for free, this once. We are about 25min from Nashville occording to how you drive.

But lets be honest, it takes about 1 minute to log in a gun, and depending on the POS system you use, 2-5 minutes to put the gun in your system. $50 to do a transfer is outrageous. Hell, some people think 25 is outrageous.

EDIT: I'm also drunk, so get it while the getting is good.

[DRM]

The only problem with going to Guns and Leather for a transfer is all the other goodies you'll want to buy... I think I've been there a total of four times and have a Sig and a 1911 to show for it! They've always been friendly and easy to deal with.

Yeah, I'm now worried a $50 transfer fee might be the least of my monetary worries after visiting them

[robin48]

[rant]

So this afternoon I stop by the Franklin Gun shop on a mission. See - I'd like to get a NoDak AK receiver, and I need a FFL to do the transfer. This process involves me sending the order form and payment to NoDak, and all the FFL has to do is fax or email a copy of their FFL, then log the transfer when it's shipped to them (I paid the shipping, BTW).

I know I'm cheap, but I ain't dumb.

But can someone please tell me WHY they want to charge me $50 (plus the $10 state background check) just do do that small bit of work? It ain't hard work, and if they were smart, they'd see it as an opportunity to earn my business on in-store items ,and potentially make me a loyal customer who will just keep coming back to them for all my needs.

Maybe I should copy/paste this over to the "why don't you like gun shops" thread

And maybe you other gun shop guys can tell me why I'm way off base, etc... I can handle the heat in the kitchen if you wanna go there

[/rant]

At Brighton Arms we charge 35 bucks which includes the background check. Local shops are struggling due to government regs, competing with places like Bass Pro and increased shipping costs. A transfer fee is not that unreasonable.

[DRM]

At Brighton Arms we charge 35 bucks which includes the background check. Local shops are struggling due to government regs, competing with places like Bass Pro and increased shipping costs. A transfer fee is not that unreasonable.

[thinks to self]

Would a recorded phone call to Bass Pro Shops asking if they can get me an AK74 receiver be amusing to anyone besides me?

[/thinks to self]

[Guest Major Pain]

No, I think it would be proper, but please post their response.--MP

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

BTW wifey says I have a cute butt.

Yeah, and I bet you tell her she doesn't look fat in those jeans, too.

[Guest grimel]

That's the background check? I was assuming the other $10 for that was reason enough to not include it in the $50 breakdown.

They don't get the $10, that goes to the state.

I know of at least one distributor that shipped items to the wrong address.

I know of one shotgun purchase that at last count was over 5 HOURS of dealing with BATF and ORPD because some piss ant KY PD screwed up entering the SN on a stolen gun and won't be bothered to fix it.

Then there was the genius FFL holder who thought it "safer" to send HIS FFL in a different package than the gun, oh, and he didn't note anywhere what the FFL was for.

These all happened in the last year to stuff I purchased.

It's the manufacturer - I'd hope he has the process worked out better than that.

Can't make such assumption and can't charge for a "perfect" transaction and then hope to charge more if it goes bad.

[DaveTN]

I have not yet had to do a transfer. If I’m looking for used I have been able to find what I want locally (with the exception of one recently) by posting on the forums, or if I’m looking for new I have been able to find a dealer that would give me as good as price as I could find elsewhere. I contact those dealers that support the forum first.

[Guest Brian@GunDepot]

My uninformed self still tends to think that is high, but it's not unreasonable, IMHO.

I might shed some light onto this for you.

Yes, you're right that the FFL is basically charging you for a bit of paperwork on his end. But to help you understand why (or at least why I charge a xfer fee) is this:

-The FFL that transfers the weapon to an unlicensed person is FULLY responsible to make sure every i is dotted and every t is crossed. In the case of a VT style shooting incident, it could mean everything....literally. Not to mention ATF audits with fines incurring in the event of a paperwork error.

-Paperwork is huge. Most customers think the 4473 they fill out at the time of purchase is it... not in the FFL's case. Log books, 3310s, xfering dealer's FFL info to file/manage.... long distance fax/calls between FFLS, heck even keeping up with TICS fees seperately....

While I don't condone $50 transfers, I do in fact charge $20. Above are some of the reason's why.

[TripleDigitRide]

To me, a transer fee is perfectly accpectable. A $20-$30 fee sounds fair to me.

[DaveTN]

Question for the dealers here...

I commonly see private sellers putting in their ads to make sure your FFL will accept shipment from a private party. Do some of you not accept those shipments? If not, why?

[Guest grimel]

Question for the dealers here...

I commonly see private sellers putting in their ads to make sure your FFL will accept shipment from a private party. Do some of you not accept those shipments? If not, why?

Because private parties tend more toward being morons incapable of following basic written and highlighted instructions for a legal transfer. :mad:

[DaveTN]

Because private parties tend more toward being morons incapable of following basic written and highlighted instructions for a legal transfer. :mad:

They put the gun in a box, declare it and ship it. How do they mess that up or make it an illegal transfer?

[Guest grimel]

They put the gun in a box, declare it and ship it. How do they mess that up or make it an illegal transfer?

Don't send ID. Send it to the non-business address (HOME of the FFL). About the only thing the baboons haven't done yet is send it to ME instead of my FFL holder.

[Guest Phantom6]

I received a request for a gun transfer for a guy in Friendsville over a week ago. The last sentence on the fax that I sent to the Rhode Island Gunshop with my FFL cert. said exactly this: "Please do not forget to place an inked copy of your FFL in the shipping container with the firearm." I thought that was pretty plain but I guess them damned Rhode Island Yankees don't read Southern very well.

OK so a pistol comes in to the shop via FedEx three days ago and not only does it not have a copy of the shipper's FFL or identification, it does not have the customer's name on it. Now, if I only did one or two transfers a week this would not be a major problem but I do more than that so not knowing for sure who has paid for this gun is a problem. I don't have time to deal with it that afternoon as I have customers in the shop with real live Benjamin Franklins and plastic so I pack it back up and put it in the vault. The next day (yesterday) I track down the FFL from the price tag on the pistol and call them on my dime. I talk to some kid that doesn't know squat and says let me let you talk to my dad. Ok so now I'm on hold and customers are coming into my shop. Finally dad picks up and when questioned he provides the customer's name and says "you mean my boy didn't put a copy of our FFL in the box?" " I'll FAX you a copy. 15 min. later the customer calls and wants to pick up his pistol. I explain to him why he can't. Now the customer calls back every 15 minutes asking if I have received the FAX yet and can he pick up his new Springfield EMP. I say no FAX, no pick up.

Today I arrive at the store right at opening time (delayed due to a courthouse obligation) and have customers at the door waiting for me to sell them guns. The day is looking up. Phone rings and its the guy wanting to pick up his EMP. No Fax, no EMP. I call Rhode Island, do the hold thing and tell the guy that the customer is getting angry. He says he knows because he has called there also. Then my FAX machine is tied up for about an hour as the RHode Island dealer is trying to FAX the document from a broken FAX machine that does not transmit FAX tones. Finally late in the afternoon I get a FAX with the requisite information, complete the first part of my A&D paperwork, call the customer who is nearly foaming at the mouth because the gun has been in the same zip code for three days but he couldn't have it, he comes in to complete the paperwork, we do the TICS thing and then I complete the second part of my A&D entry.

This took hours of time, effort and worry for which I got paid my usual and customary fee of $25. It wasn't the customer's fault. It was the fault of the dumbass Rhode Island Yankee FFL. If he didn't own a gun shop he'd own a fast food joint and neglect to put your fries in your order at the drive through window.

Does this happen every time? No but it happens more than you might immagine. And that's coming from an FFL. Things can get really screwed up when a private individual sends a gun in. Gun transfers are a customer service/customer development thing but sometimes it is down right frustrating. I wouldn't gripe about $25 to $30 for a transfer fee.

[/Rant]

Edited August 29, 2008 by Phantom6

[DRM]

Several pages later - and I still don't see anyone complaining about a reasonable fee.

But I'll be honest - if you guys who are FFL's want to complain about them so much - why not just stop doing them? I personally don't agree with the concept that FFL transfer customers are somehow less important than any other customer.

I've got $12k a month clients, and I've got $300 a month clients - and I do my level best to treat every one of them as equal as possible.