Just walked away...

[JayC]

Also not suggesting that you knowingly break the law, but it's worth noting that we are aware of only 2 cases where somebody was even charged with violating 39-17-1359 and both cases involved attempts to carry a firearm into the secure area of an airport.  1359 is a bad law and we should do everything in our power to have to changed, but we spend way too much time worrying about it.

 

Hrm... Thanks, I was wrong. Either way, criminal record which is not something I want - and as you say looking your right to carry. 

 

And yes, it is posted now on the main entry next to Belk. I did call and tell the store manager that they had denied me service and that I had intended to purchase some clothing. 

 

[Guest Brent1973]

I did notice that Hamilton Place Mall Chattanooga is posted. I could be wrong but i have never noticed it before? Must be a mall thing going around :0/ I NEVER will be back, but got me thinking, i never saw a sign on Red Robin door. Would you be able to carry there? there is not a door to the mall from Red Robin?

[Il Duce]

HP has always been posted and since CBL bought NG that too is posted although with NG I know that as long as it is concealed they don't care. Also, just go through the dept stores.

Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

[tnguy]

Per TCA 39-17-1359  "(2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)."

 

And, of course, you'll likely lose your carry permit.

 

 

And don't forget this bit:
 

 

 (3)  (A) If a sign is used as the method of posting, it shall contain language substantially similar to the following:

         AS AUTHORIZED BY T.C.A. § 39-17-1359, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

      ( B) As used in this section, "language substantially similar to" means the sign contains language plainly stating that:

         (i) The property is posted under authority of Tennessee law;

         (ii) Weapons or firearms are prohibited on the property, in the building, or on the portion of the property or building that is posted; and

         (iii) Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.

 

 

 

They can't just put up a little red sticker.

 

Edit: Oh, apparently they can. When did that get added in?

 

 

 

( C) A building, property or a portion of a building or property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

         (i) The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

         (ii) The posting sign described in this subdivision ( B)(3).

 

Edited September 3, 2013 by tnguy

[tnguy]

This was added in 2010 apparently. Way to ambush legal gun owners. Who should we push to get this language turned back to the original? Since the bill itself was to allow carry in restaurants (basically, on our side), it must have been snuck in by some scumbag.

 

http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/106/pub/pc1009.pdf‎

Edited September 3, 2013 by tnguy

[Garufa]

They can't just put up a little red sticker.

 

Edit: Oh, apparently they can. When did that get added in?

 

Several years ago.

[Paladin132]

This was added in 2010 apparently. Way to ambush legal gun owners. Who should we push to get this language turned back to the original? Since the bill itself was to allow carry in restaurants (basically, on our side), it must have been snuck in by some scumbag.

 

http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/106/pub/pc1009.pdf‎

 

It is definitely an ambush which is I guess at its core why it bothers me so much. 

[Wyldk2]

So my list of malls one can shop ( and feel safe) is growing thin. I know Northgatemall( in Tullahoma) isn't posted. But it really isn't a mall, just a large shopping center.

 

Wonder how many of us would boycott Wal-mart if it ever banned carry?

 

I know I would, And I probably would quit working there out of spite( even though i need a job).

[blueghost]

To the OP, congratulations on getting your job. It sounds like you don't shop at the mall very often so in that particular case, especially when you needed/wanted some nicer clothes, you should have handled your business there and went about your business. Only you would know. But I do applaud your principles and hope you found your nicer clothes.

Wonder how many of us would boycott Wal-mart if it ever banned carry?

I know I would, And I probably would quit working there out of spite( even though i need a job).

There would be an initial uproar if Walmart ever posted and very little impact on their business. I suspect many boycotting would feel the effects of not shopping there pretty quickly.

Wyldk2, you would quit working there even though you need a job? Well, I hope those "principles" are good at paying the bills and putting food on the table for you and/or your family.

Sent from my GSIII using TPR 3.17

[Paladin132]

Thank you Blueghost. I feel that it is important to live a principled life, and although I fail regularly, I do try... 

As for Walmart I think most people would not boycott. CCL folks are a small part of the country, and even then many do not even carry. Most people just figure they will keep on going and they will not be bothered... I think that is part of the reason we are where we are today as a nation, and as a society. 

[UncleJak]

Thank you Blueghost. I feel that it is important to live a principled life, and although I fail regularly, I do try...
As for Walmart I think most people would not boycott. CCL folks are a small part of the country, and even then many do not even carry. Most people just figure they will keep on going and they will not be bothered... I think that is part of the reason we are where we are today as a nation, and as a society.

I already boycott walmart. That would just be icing on the cake.
As for the op, I want people to have what they want in life. If a store wants to be posted and not get my business: I will oblige and give my money to someone else :)

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[Wyldk2]

I might have to re-think my principles on this. If they banned carry, I would still work there, not like it, but look even harder for another job. They tell me in the orientation that they do not allow weapons on premises( so I park off-premises). And what is defined as a "weapon"? My vehicle, could be used as a weapon, everyone who works there has a Knife on them( even those flimsy safety knives), etc....

 

If they banned carry, wal-mart would lose some business, but not enough to make a dent in their billion dollar empire. So they won't lose if they do decide to ban. If you ever hear a code brown( that is a firearm emergency in the stores). Have not heard one yet in my stores. More shoplifters and lost children than anything else.

[jbum]

Go in through Penny's or another entrance they are not marked. Those signs must be new I have never seen them but I rarely go thru main entrances at malls.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD

[RobertNashville]

I went shopping in Knoxville for new clothes. I have been very fortunate to be hired full time after three years and need a few more nicer shirts and pants. As I approached the door, carefree and looking forward to buying three or four of each and then going home for the WVU kickoff I was stopped dead in my tracks as I was denied service, as well as entry to the East Town Mall.

I have not been there I suppose in forever and only once that I can think of. It was nearly abandoned this morning, but there at the door I was barred entry.

I felt offended. I should not perhaps but I did. I felt violated. I was not bothering anyone, but going through my life.

I was stopped by a small red sticker that told me that entry into the premises was relegated to those that forgo their rights to self defense by carrying a legal weapon.

I have heard all the arguments, but let me state if it is a business that is open to the public they should not have the ability without proving intent to harm to charge someone with a felony. Signs should have no force of law.

I was scared. I could have walked by it and been a felon in the same stride as Dahlmer or Hassan and just because I was caught up in enjoying my morning.

Some day those that say well its business they have rights are going to realize that can no longer carry their weapon in a park for a afternoon stroll, into a restaurant for a great meal, or into a store to purchase clothes. It is coming. Seattle is trying to get all business to do it as the council won't pass a law banning weapons.

On that day I will not tell you I mentioned this. Instead I will merely shrug and wish that we had found a better way to convince people that we are not bad people and that we are among then daily - and that criminals do not respect the laws that we do.

Even if signs did not carry the force of law (i.e. even if Tennessee's laws were changed to match those of some other states) a business will and IMHO should always have the right to ban firearms inside of their business - to deny them that right is, in my opinion, just as abhorant to the concepts of freedom and liberty as banning individuals the right to carry arms or to protest their government.

 

No one's rihghts, even the RTKABA can be allowed to dominate over other rights...rights must strike a balance for all or they are meaningless for all.

[tnhawk]

Every month, I find it easier to do my shopping on line. 

[Fallguy]

Even if signs did not carry the force of law (i.e. even if Tennessee's laws were changed to match those of some other states) a business will and IMHO should always have the right to ban firearms inside of their business - to deny them that right is, in my opinion, just as abhorant to the concepts of freedom and liberty as banning individuals the right to carry arms or to protest their government.

 

No one's rihghts, even the RTKABA can be allowed to dominate over other rights...rights must strike a balance for all or they are meaningless for all.

 

Yes I feel a property owner should be able to tell anyone to leave for any reason,  But in other cases it is not a crime until told to leave and refusing to do so and these are for things not acknowledged as "rights" by the TN and US constitutions

[RobertNashville]

Yes I feel a property owner should be able to tell anyone to leave for any reason,  But in other cases it is not a crime until told to leave and refusing to do so and these are for things not acknowledged as "rights" by the TN and US constitutions

I guess it seems to me that a "no-firearm's" sign (whether under current law where there is the posibility of a criminal charge or after a change in the law) should be enough that the business owner (or whoever is in charge) shouldn't have to confront and individual just to tell him to leave as that person who entered the business anyway shouldn't have done so in the first place. :shrug:

[Paladin132]

Robert, the way I look at it the 2A is articulated, a public business therefore falls shorter than the individuals right. I admit my view is colored by the fear that one day we will be able to carry in our front yard and no where else if things go the way that they are going. Look around, it is happening. There are many places today that are posted that were not a few years ago because of the increase in media driving a perception that "guns are bad" and "guns cause crime." 

[RobertNashville]

Robert, the way I look at it the 2A is articulated, a public business therefore falls shorter than the individuals right. I admit my view is colored by the fear that one day we will be able to carry in our front yard and no where else if things go the way that they are going. Look around, it is happening. There are many places today that are posted that were not a few years ago because of the increase in media driving a perception that "guns are bad" and "guns cause crime." 

Are they truly posted because of the "media" or because people have openly carried into such places and caused an incident?  The answer is probably both!

 

Most business owners just want to see their business thrive. While some are idealogues (Randy Rayburn comes to mind) most will either post or not post  based on what they feel is best for their business which is, I would suggest, the way it should be.

 

I don't and never have said that a business property used for business reasons has the same "property rights" as private property used for private reasons but even so, I don't think the governmetn should force businesses to allow arms inside of their business proper...there needs to be a balance found that is as fair as possible whcih is why I believe that business should not have the power to forbid arms in "parking lots' but ought to be able to do so with the inside of a business itself.  We should exercise out power by not giving our custom to businesses that do not welcom our arms.

 

I guess there is the danger that "every business" will decide to forbid arms but I don't think that using the power of government to stop that is the proper course to take.

Edited September 8, 2013 by RobertNashville

[tnguy]

The internet doesn't care if I'm armed or not. Local businesses need to get a clue. I tried to head out last Saturday to do some substantial business I needed doing and both places I visited were not open on a Saturday. Lowes got the first piece of business and the other will have to wait until I can find somewhere to get to in the week.

[Spurholder]

This is crazy.

 

I bought my first pistol in East Town Mall, back in '89.  There was a neat little outdoors store (The Outdoorsman??) that was on the second level, roughly in the middle of the mall.  And this was back in the "have to wait two weeks to pick up" days!

 

How times have changed.

[Clod Stomper]

This is crazy.

I bought my first pistol in East Town Mall, back in '89. There was a neat little outdoors store (The Outdoorsman??) that was on the second level, roughly in the middle of the mall. And this was back in the "have to wait two weeks to pick up" days!

How times have changed.

I was trying to remember the name of that store the other day. If its the same one you're talking about it was a sporting goods store where The Rush is now. They had a small selection of firearms.

That was back when East Town Mall was still worth visiting occasionally.

[Tim Nunan]

I don't think the Morristown mall is posted. I'll check for you when I get over there Sunday.

College Square Mall in Morristown has been post for a number of years. Davy Crockett mall aka WalMart mall is not however I don't think there are any stores dedicated to clothing.