Detailed Testing, Steel vs. Brass cased Ammo

[mikegideon]

Well done test and results...

 

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

[Dustbuster]

hah i just finished reading, was going to post link here.what a bad ass article,must read,great info thanks mike

Edited August 30, 2013 by Dustbuster

[mikegideon]

The only thing that concerns me is barrel wear. I'll have to go back thru the article a little more, and then noodle on the money. I'll probably stick to brass only in my new BCM barrel, and shoot up the rest of my Wolf in the guns that have already been eating it. I have a couple thousand round left from the good old days.

[Dolomite_supafly]

And I think I have said it for at least 4 years now. An AR will run fine when dirty, DI as well as piston, and will continue to do so for thousands of rounds. I have personally shot 3K-5K without cleaning and never had any cycling issues. As it stands right now every AR I own probably has 500+ rounds through it since the last cleaning. And I generally run them pretty dry by most people's standards.

 

Something I have noticed is combloc ammo is dirtier but it is also waxier or more oily too. I wonder if that isn't part of the design to provide some lubrication as the firing increases. I know with American made ammo it is not waxy or oily but dry and so it requires additional lubrication.

 

I would be willing to bet the Monarch ammo is a bimetal bullet jacket. Probably a copper coated steel jacket.

[Stegall Law Firm]

So regardless of what type ammo you shoot, how many rounds will an AR barrel last? I'm not anywhere close to needing it now, but I figure it would be a good idea to have a spare upper just for backup, especially if (rather WHEN) there's another shortage.

And what about AK barrels, where you can't just drop in a new upper? How do those hold up to 10,000 rounds of all-Soviet ammo?

[superduty]

So regardless of what type ammo you shoot, how many rounds will an AR barrel last? I'm not anywhere close to needing it now, but I figure it would be a good idea to have a spare upper just for backup, especially if (rather WHEN) there's another shortage.

 

 

I don't know definitively, but I have read 30-50 thousand rounds.  I would imagine it has to with maintenance/upkeep, but thats what I've read.

[mikegideon]

So regardless of what type ammo you shoot, how many rounds will an AR barrel last? I'm not anywhere close to needing it now, but I figure it would be a good idea to have a spare upper just for backup, especially if (rather WHEN) there's another shortage.

And what about AK barrels, where you can't just drop in a new upper? How do those hold up to 10,000 rounds of all-Soviet ammo?

 

I don't know about AK ammo. The .223 steel cased stuff has a copper plated steel jacket on the bullet as well. That's what's shortening barrel life. The 7.62 bullets may have all copper jackets, are are slower to begin with. The faster the muzzle velocity, the shorter the barrel life.

 

I expected shorter barrel life when I bought all that Wolf. No big deal with the guns I'm using. 200 bucks for a new chrome lined barrel, and an hour to swap them out.

Edited August 31, 2013 by mikegideon

[Dolomite_supafly]

It depends on the type of ammo being shot. Copper jacketed bullets the barrel will last at least 30K rounds. The steel bi-metal jackets definitely wear the bore out a lot quicker.

 

Realistically how many of us shoot more than 2K-3K a year? I know I don't anymore. And when you consider a barrel costs ~$200 spending that every 3 years is pretty cheap.

[mikegideon]

It depends on the type of ammo being shot. Copper jacketed bullets the barrel will last at least 30K rounds. The steel bi-metal jackets definitely wear the bore out a lot quicker.

 

Realistically how many of us shoot more than 2K-3K a year? I know I don't anymore. And when you consider a barrel costs ~$200 spending that every 3 years is pretty cheap.

 

Yep. If swapping out a barrel isn't a big deal to you. Doesn't bother me. It's still good to factor it in. Fact is, I'll shoot a lot more if I'm shooting Wolf.

[Oh Shoot]

....

I would be willing to bet the Monarch ammo is a bimetal bullet jacket. Probably a copper coated steel jacket.

 

Didn't see Monarch mentioned anywhere, but yeah, the .223 is bimetal like all the rest of the Russian steel. Not sure which factory actually makes it  lately (some say Barnaul ) but it's also the last lacquer coated steel I still see for sale anywhere. There's also a copper cased version too, dunno what the bullet is in those.

 

- OS

Edited September 1, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

Didn't see Monarch mentioned anywhere, but yeah, the .223 is bimetal like all the rest of the Russian steel. Not sure which factory actually makes it  lately (some say Barnaul ) but it's also the last lacquer coated steel I still see for sale anywhere. There's also a copper cased version too, dunno what the bullet is in those.

 

- OS

I am talking about the bullet itself, not the casing. Easiest way to tell is with a magnet.

[mikegideon]

I am talking about the bullet itself, not the casing. Easiest way to tell is with a magnet.

 

Or a pocket knife. The copper is real thin

[nightrunner]

I have always hated steel cased ammo, this just reaffirms my decision.

[mikegideon]

It runs fine in my guns. But, I don't like the idea of shooting out the barrel in 5000 rounds. I still haven't put a pencil to it.

[Oh Shoot]

I am talking about the bullet itself, not the casing. Easiest way to tell is with a magnet.

 

Yes, I know. The bullet in the steel cased Monarch .223 is bi metal, guess I could have been more clear. Actually, I don't know of a Russian steel case offering that isn't.

 

- OS

[mikegideon]

When I started shooting Wolf, I went with chrome lined barrels in my blaster rifles because of the steel jackets. Looks like that wasn't enough. All the Bushmaster MOE rifles have chrome lined barrels. I have at least made one decision. I'm not going to shoot any Wolf in my Mini 14. 

[GuitaRx]

Thanks for sharing Mike!

[DaveTN]

My experience in metallurgy tells me not to shoot steel case in my rifles; it damages chambers and extractors. But why would anyone think it would shoot out a barrel any faster?

[mikegideon]

My experience in metallurgy tells me not to shoot steel case in my rifles; it damages chambers and extractors. But why would anyone think it would shoot out a barrel any faster?

 

You mean other than the documented testing above? Steel cased ammo also has copper plated steel jacketed bullets. I'm not worried about the chamber or the extractor. The extractor is literally a 5 minute fix of you have the part. The real damage is from the steel jackets ripping out the throat and the rifling in the bore.

 

I'm most likely going to shoot up this 2000 rounds of Wolf, and limit it to the two rifles that have been exposed to it. Then, I'll swap out those barrels and swear off the steel stuff. I reload .223 and 5.56 anyway. No need to ruin my guns with crappy ammo.

Edited September 1, 2013 by mikegideon

[RED333]

As far as grouping, my Saiga 308 dont like the steel at all, groups are all over the place, lucky to put 10 in a paper plate

My CETME loves the stuff, 10 in a 4 inch target.

[mikegideon]

I've never shot it for groups. It's accurate for plinking in my AR's and runs just fine. I can't say that it's even that much dirtier. The only plus I can see is that you don't have to keep track of your cases after you shoot them.

[DaveTN]

Steel cased ammo also has copper plated steel jacketed bullets.

Got it. I did not know that I figured they loaded them with whatever they wanted just like brass case.

[mikegideon]

Got it. I did not know that I figured they loaded them with whatever they wanted just like brass case.

 

I knew it. The story was that it's really soft steel. Guess it's not soft enough. 5000 rounds is SHORT barrel life.

Edited September 1, 2013 by mikegideon