Almost time to slang some arrows

[rugerla1]

Okay, I just saw its supposed to be in the 40's in the morning! Didn't know it was dropping that much. I'm going to bed and off to the woods I go for a couple of hours before work.

[Mdunntn]

I'm itching for Saturday morning

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[Mdunntn]

Has anybody seen the new tactacam stabilizer camera?

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[EastHipster]

It was quiet this morning.  I heard movement on a Trail about 100 yards from me.

I bumped one at 11:00 near a bedding area (I was following a trail).

 

Found a NICE Fresh line of Rubs in a Ravine where I was hearing the movement early morning.

Moving in!
 

[rugerla1]

It was quiet this morning.  I heard movement on a Trail about 100 yards from me.
I bumped one at 11:00 near a bedding area (I was following a trail).
 
Found a NICE Fresh line of Rubs in a Ravine where I was hearing the movement early morning.
Moving in!

Good to hear!!! You hunting this evening too I suppose?

[EastHipster]

Don't think I can go again today.

Might get out in the morning again though.

[rugerla1]

Don't think I can go again today.

Might get out in the morning again though.

I did not make it out this morning like I'd planned. Last night, no matter how hard I tried to go to sleep, I couldn't. So I decided to not get up after 3 1/2 hours of sleep and try to hunt, then go to work. However, it's supposed to be cool again in the morning, so if I can pass out earlier tonight I am going to try to get out there in the a.m. If I don't get one really early morning, I'll have to not shoot or go back and get him after work. I can't come in late for "deer retrieval" again LOL

[whiskey]

I did not make it out this morning like I'd planned. Last night, no matter how hard I tried to go to sleep, I couldn't. So I decided to not get up after 3 1/2 hours of sleep and try to hunt, then go to work. However, it's supposed to be cool again in the morning, so if I can pass out earlier tonight I am going to try to get out there in the a.m. If I don't get one really early morning, I'll have to not shoot or go back and get him after work. I can't come in late for "deer retrieval" again LOL

 

Can't you just explain that you are doing something way more important than work? I am sure they will understand. If not, I hear unemployment is the hip career choice. 

[rugerla1]

Can't you just explain that you are doing something way more important than work? I am sure they will understand. If not, I hear unemployment is the hip career choice. 

HA HA HA You dang near talked me into it.......then my wife walked in the room and that's a rage I don't want unleashed on me after I say, "Honey, I quit so I can hunt!"  :rofl:

Actually if my boss wasn't on vacation, I have no doubt that if I said "Hey, it's gonna be a great day to hunt tomorrow. I know it's late notice, but can I have the day off?" If there wasn't something absolutely necessary for me to be involved in, i.e. meetings/visitors/SHTF, he'd let me have it. So I've got it pretty good and the other supervisor and I always cover for each other when we need to take off last minute. Doesn't get much better than that, so I better keep the Mrs. happy. But hey, it's a great thought!  :up:

Edited October 8, 2013 by rugerla1

[rugerla1]

Nice and cool out here boys, good luck!

[DaveS]

My Son got a decent Doe yesterday evening while we were out. I'll get out on post with Muzzleloader one day this week. Weather is getting right for hunting now.

 

DS

[EastHipster]

I did not make it out this morning like I'd planned. Last night, no matter how hard I tried to go to sleep, I couldn't. So I decided to not get up after 3 1/2 hours of sleep and try to hunt, then go to work. However, it's supposed to be cool again in the morning, so if I can pass out earlier tonight I am going to try to get out there in the a.m. If I don't get one really early morning, I'll have to not shoot or go back and get him after work. I can't come in late for "deer retrieval" again LOL

Me too.  I'm too sore from yesterday.  Lots of climbing/squatting and crawling.

Packed up for tomorrow morning though.

 

I don't get out many afternoons but I might try to pull a double tomorrow.

[rugerla1]

Very surprised, but I didn't see anything. Maybe they were running all day yesterday after the monsoon Sunday?

[DaveS]

My Son took this nice Doe with a 45 yard shot with his bow. This was the 6th deer we seen within an hour of dark yesterday evening.

 

 

DS

[rugerla1]

My Son took this nice Doe with a 45 yard shot with his bow. This was the 6th deer we seen within an hour of dark yesterday evening.
 

 
DS

Nice!!

[DaveS]

She should be good eating for sure!

 

DS

[KahrMan]

NIce doe!  :up:

[Wiljo05]

Hunted this evening. Checked the trail cam on the way out, time stamp on a pic showed 30 min before I got to my stand a coyote was popping a squat right in front of the cam, almost mocking me! When I go back this weekend to check the cam, I'll swap the memory card and post a pic for y'all to see. It's stupidly funny the expression this coyote has! Edited October 9, 2013 by Wiljo05

[rugerla1]

Hunted this evening. Checked the trail cam on the way out, time stamp on a pic showed 30 min before I got to my stand a coyote was popping a squat right in front of the cam, almost mocking me! When I go back this weekend to check the cam, I'll swap the memory card and post a pic for y'all to see. It's stupidly funny the expression this coyote has!

Wish you'd have been in the stand when he squatted there! Git'm bubba!

[Slappy]

Well I am going to give it another shot this weekend. Going to camp out at the farm Friday night and hunt morning till dead deer or last light on Saturday. If Mr. Thunder Chicken steps out in front, I will have a go at him too. We won't be buck hunting likely for a few years to help balance the sex ratio. We need to pull off at least 10 doe this year.

[rugerla1]

Well I am going to give it another shot this weekend. Going to camp out at the farm Friday night and hunt morning till dead deer or last light on Saturday. If Mr. Thunder Chicken steps out in front, I will have a go at him too. We won't be buck hunting likely for a few years to help balance the sex ratio. We need to pull off at least 10 doe this year.

Sounds like a good weekend plan Slappy. Since I decided I would take a turkey, they haven't come in front of the stand, after a week straight of them being there every day lol.

 

It surprises me how many people I know who will kill every buck they see and then complain the next year about only seeing does. Thinning out the does, will bring more and most of the time better bucks. I have no problem thinning out does, they are good eating and there are wayyyy more than enough around most areas in TN. Especially where I'm at. I'm ready to go now, the next 2 1/2 days are going to drag by, but before you know it, it will be time to get up and throw in the gear!

[Mdunntn]

Looks like ill be heading out saturday with my tactacam stabilizer camera in tow. Hopefully I can get some footage

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[Slappy]

I know. I cringe when anyone except for new hunters shoots a spike. They always say "I'm just hunting for meat!" Either they have a lack of knowledge or they have poor self control. If you are meat hunting, then shoot a dang doe and let the buck grow. These are the same people that wonder where all the big bucks are at. First of all there are far more doe than bucks. If you start shooting doe, then that will allow for increased forage for the rest of the deer. The average deer eats around 1 ton of food per year. So by eliminating doe, your deer become healthier because they have more access to food and therefore have more MEAT on their bones. Plus, how muh bigger is a spike than a mature doe anyways. Not much difference.

[DaveS]

I know. I cringe when anyone except for new hunters shoots a spike. They always say "I'm just hunting for meat!" Either they have a lack of knowledge or they have poor self control. If you are meat hunting, then shoot a dang doe and let the buck grow. These are the same people that wonder where all the big bucks are at. First of all there are far more doe than bucks. If you start shooting doe, then that will allow for increased forage for the rest of the deer. The average deer eats around 1 ton of food per year. So by eliminating doe, your deer become healthier because they have more access to food and therefore have more MEAT on their bones. Plus, how muh bigger is a spike than a mature doe anyways. Not much difference.

A good deer herd management program includes the harvesting of certain bucks. You can't harvest only does and be happy. You are not doing your herd justice by that. For every doe you kill during the rut, you are potentially killing up to four deer. Let that bred doe drop her fawns and carry on the genes of your mature bucks. There is nothing wrong with taking a young buck. How about leaving the "big boys" to spread their genes. That makes more sense. I thinned two "scrubs" with jacked up racks off my property last year. I will continue to do so. I have some monsters on my property. I will keep them there for breeding my does.

 

DaveS

[Slappy]

We both agree that herd management is a good thing.  I do respectfully disagree with a few things you mentioned because it boils down to how you and I view proper herd management which could probably be argued ad nauseum.

 

"A good herd management program includes the harvesting of certain bucks".  ~ Agree Partially.  If you are monitoring the health and growth of your young deer (spikes) then I can see it as acceptable to harvest a few spikes to record data for your records so you can compare to the year(s) before.  You would record things such as weight of the deer, the stomach contents, the jawbone,  and antler measurement.  So unless you are recording that data and using it for herd management purposes, I see no other reason to harvest spikes.  Certain bucks to harvest for me are bucks 3.5-4.5+ years old when their antler and genetic capabilities are near 80%-90% and higher.  

 

"You cant harvest does and be happy, you wont be doing your herd any justice". ~Agree Partially.  Bucks are what people want hanging on their wall, not does.  Nothing is more exciting than a bruiser in front of you.  But how do you get that old and wise maybe even nocturnal bruiser in front of you instead of just on a trail cam?  The best way is to make him walk.  If he has easy access to a doe, he will stick close to his bedding area where he is nice and protected, but if he does not have easy access to a doe, he will have to travel further to find one.  By balancing the buck to doe ratio there will be a massive increase in competition from your bucks.  This makes the rut VERY intense.  

 

Have you ever heard of the "2nd rut"?  Do you know why there is a "2nd rut"?  Its because you have too many does vs bucks.  These are does that are left to be breed by a buck so they go into heat again. Fawns that are conceived during the "2nd rut" are born later in the year the next year.  By the time these fawns are born, there is less quality food available to new mom and fawns because of all the births from the main rut.  This makes the fawns and moms unhealthy and fawn recruitment rates are much lower.  Not only will they die from lack of nutrition, but an unhealthy mom likely wont give birth to more than 1 fawn. Bucks born from the 2nd rut often stay young looking up until they are 1.5 years old and can easily be mistaken for "bad genetics" or that "cowhorn spike".  Most likely that cowhorn spike is a buck that was born late in the year and never had the nutrition to turn those horns into 4 or 6 points.

 

So what does a balanced buck:doe ratio look like?  The rut is freaking intense, your does will be bread during the main rut.  There will be not 2nd rut. This also means that you have enough quality food available for the new moms and new fawns throughout the gestation period and after birth.  Healthier does give birth to multiple fawns therefor increasing the amount of deer you have on your property.  The bucks born from these moms express greater antler grown due to the available nutrition. 

Your bucks will become more visible and make for better hunts.  So its delayed gratification but harvesting does does lead to happiness.  

 

So to affectively manage your heard for the best quality bucks, the most visible bucks, and the healthy does that give birth to multiple fawns you harvest does to balance this, not bucks.  

 

"For every doe you kill during the rut, you are potentially killing up to four deer".  ~ This is not completely true if you have too many deer for the carrying capacity of your land.  Malnourished  doe tend to have only 1 fawn.  By reducing the doe on your property, this actually increases the deer on your property which you then monitor and harvest appropriately the next year.  Its a cycle.  But the point is, all the deer being born are healthy and the bucks have the nourishment to express their full genetic potential...if you let them mature first. 

 

"How about leaving the "big boys" to spread their genes".  Well, it is true that the dominate bucks get to breed the doe, but you can't control the age of bucks that breed your does.  The age of the father doesn't have anything to do with how much genetic potential a young buck may have.  Genetic potential is genetic potential, a young buck that has the genetic potential to be a 200" deer will likely result in a bigger son than an already mature buck with a genetic potential of 140"

 

"I thinned two "scrubs" with jacked up racks off my property last year". ~ By shooting "scrubs" you are assuming 2 things.  The first is that the deer has bad genetics.  The second is that be eliminating this deer, you are helping to control bad genes from being entered into your heard.  (remember what I said above to about how that cowhorn spike likely is a late born buck and still has the genetic potential to not only grow big with proper nutrition but to produce strong offspring).  Be careful with this.  Many people have this old school methodology that you can manage deer genetics enough to make an impact on your herd.  That is simply not true!

 

First, most antler abnormalities are due to injury...NOT genetics.  Ever see that buck with one messed up antler but the other looks normal?  Thats injury, not bad genes.  So if you kill this buck, you are eliminating him breeding with your does and spreading on his genetic potential. 

 

Second, you can't control genetics because of several different reasons.

1) Genetics are invisible
2) Deer move too much.  Yearing bucks travel up to 40 miles away from their birthplace.  During the rut, these deer travel even further.

3) Does carry genes too

4) You dont have the time

5) Genetic manipulation wont last anyways. 

(you can read more about this http://www.qdma.com/articles/why-we-cant-manage-deer-genetics )

Edited October 10, 2013 by Slappy