Disgusted and sick at the justice system

[peejman]

Stuff like this is why it's not a "justice" system, its a "legal" system.  Justice has little to do with it anymore. 

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Self administered. This POS was a medic, and had a history of drug abuse with controlled meds acquired from his job. He had recently been reduced in rank and was facing other punishment for being a POS. The ketamine was purchased through an online pharmacy.

Thanks for the details, TMF. Seems a weird drug of abuse, but then again whooda thunk people would willingly take PCP for recreational purposes?

[Guest nra37922]

Jury of one's peers....

[TMF]

Thanks for the details, TMF. Seems a weird drug of abuse, but then again whooda thunk people would willingly take PCP for recreational purposes?

 

Apparently it is a pretty popular recreational drug, like other prescription pain killers.  I don't see the draw either.  I've been prescribed narcs on several occasions post surgery and only one of them had any sort of euphoria associated with it, but even then it wasn't all that great.  Not better than a couple glasses of Jack anyway.  I think this POS was taking whatever he could get his hands on because he is just a hopeless lowlife.  It isn't fair that he took the life of someone who was actually worth something, and will now walk away from this a free man in a matter of months.  Hopefully he stays close after he is released an CPD can bust him on drug possession.  He'll probably go to jail longer for it than for taking an innocent life and shooting a cop.

[Chucktshoes]

Thanks for the details, TMF. Seems a weird drug of abuse, but then again whooda thunk people would willingly take PCP for recreational purposes?

Back in my rave days I knew a lot of folks that were fans of ketamine. Apparently they really enjoyed being in a "k-hole". I never tried it myself. I never was one much for depressants.

[Guest The Itis]

Just curious-- Was the ketamine self-administered, or related to a medical procedure? I don't get out much, but that seems a strange drug of abuse?

Ketamine is by no means a strange drug of abuse. It is actually a very commonly abused drug worldwide, and its availability is due to it being used by veterinarians as an animal anesthetic as well as a pediatric anesthetic. The highest rates of abuse are actually by those with easy access to it, i.e., anesthetists and medics. It's a volatile situation- their job is stressful and they have at hand drugs that can relax them, and they also have a false sense of security because they feel like they fully understand these drugs.
Ketamine is a psychedelic that gives a hallucination experientially identical to the classic near-death experiences, and moreso it validates what a person already believes. This drug chemically binds to the exact same receptors in the brain and neurologically is no different than the delusions accompanying a dying brain. Only difference is the brain isn't actually dying, but the experience is the same.

 

If this guy already had ill will toward his roommate, and had even thought about what it would be like to shoot him, then ketamine would reinforce his beliefs and even paranoia, telling him that he would be fully justified in acting on his self-reinforced beliefs.

 

Also, funny thing about ketamine, is that the psychedelic dose is actually 10 times less than the dose used for anesthetic purposes. The dangerous thing about ketamine is that not enough is used, but even with anesthetic doses, the amount in the body has to pass through psychedelic amounts as it gets metabolized.

 

(Ketamine was a key part of my college thesis in explaining the experience of dying with an analysis on neurological system effects) :up:

Edited August 30, 2013 by The Itis

[JayC]

Special Forces medic's use ketamine a lot in the field.  I know that it's part of the standard kit they carry.  I'm not sure if standard Army medics use it as well or not.

 

I think I'd be asking my dr why he was giving me animal tranquilizers? They use ketamine aka special k to sedate horses, cats, etc for surgery. To be quiet honest you're the first person I've ever heard of that had it used on them. There are certainly better drugs to use for pain ie morphine. Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

 

[TMF]

Special Forces medic's use ketamine a lot in the field. I know that it's part of the standard kit they carry. I'm not sure if standard Army medics use it as well or not.

He did not get these from work. He ordered them offline.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I just feel bad for the cops and bystanders who were in the line of fire. If this is justice, this kind of justice can go to Hell.

Even though it wouldn't have mattered, I wish I had paid attention to this case. It would have told me real fast who the enemy

is, right here in Clarksville. I can't see a single reason for this to have happened. There are some crappy people within the

justice system in Clarksville. This is a bit over the top, though.

 

One of my lawyer friends told me about a case of self-defense that got the property owner jail time, when no one was hurt,

and the perp was drunk, spinning his truck in circles in his front yard threatening the man. He fired shots in the air, trying to

get the probably drunk guy out of his yard. Only because of a firearm did the owner go to prison. The bad guy walked, never

facing the first charge. I think it was all courtroom antics, too.

 

It was only a cautionary tale by one of my best friends, who happens to be one of the best lawyers in town, if not the best. I had

to leave too much detail out because I would hate to cause any grief to the lawyer or the cops involved.

 

We have our share of disappointments in this town.

[TMF]

It was only a cautionary tale by one of my best friends, who happens to be one of the best lawyers in town, if not the best. I had
to leave too much detail out because I would hate to cause any grief to the lawyer or the cops involved.

We have our share of disappointments in this town.

Best one in town, eh? Not the one who was the armed robbery victim only two blocks from the police station, right?

[2.ooohhh]

I think I'd be asking my dr why he was giving me animal tranquilizers? They use ketamine aka special k to sedate horses, cats, etc for surgery. To be quiet honest you're the first person I've ever heard of that had it used on them. There are certainly better drugs to use for pain ie morphine. Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

 

 

Ketamine is not solely an animal tranquilizer. It is often used in anesthesia where there may be concern of respiratory depression. It is a much better anesthetic for some cases than opiates. Examples would be anesthesia of asthmatic patients, or patients with an obstructed airway.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Best one in town, eh? Not the one who was the armed robbery victim only two blocks from the police station, right?

Nah, this guy would never be an armed robbery victim. :D

[TMF]

Nah, this guy would never be an armed robbery victim. :D

I had a lawyer buddy like that once. Coincidentally he was also involved in a shooting with CPD. He lost worse than the scumbag here.

[JayC]

I was answering his question on how a SF medic might have come across ketamine as a drug to abuse...  That it is a common drug for them to carry and use on a regular basis.

 

I didn't mean to imply he got the ketamine he was on during the shooting from his medic bag...  only that SF medics, and other JSOC medics use it as a normal course of treatment in the field, and therefore have routine access to the drug as part of their jobs.

 

He did not get these from work. He ordered them offline.

 

[TMF]

I was answering his question on how a SF medic might have come across ketamine as a drug to abuse... That it is a common drug for them to carry and use on a regular basis.

I didn't mean to imply he got the ketamine he was on during the shooting from his medic bag... only that SF medics, and other JSOC medics use it as a normal course of treatment in the field, and therefore have routine access to the drug as part of their jobs.

Okay. Yeah, downrange they have a lot of access to a variety of controlled meds, and often there is a surplus that isn't on the books. In garrison it's a different story, yet he apparently was still able to get his hands on other meds from work and abuse them.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Ketamine is by no means a strange drug of abuse. It is actually a very commonly abused drug worldwide, and its availability is due to it being used by veterinarians as an animal anesthetic as well as a pediatric anesthetic. The highest rates of abuse are actually by those with easy access to it, i.e., anesthetists and medics. It's a volatile situation- their job is stressful and they have at hand drugs that can relax them, and they also have a false sense of security because they feel like they fully understand these drugs.
Ketamine is a psychedelic that gives a hallucination experientially identical to the classic near-death experiences, and moreso it validates what a person already believes. This drug chemically binds to the exact same receptors in the brain and neurologically is no different than the delusions accompanying a dying brain. Only difference is the brain isn't actually dying, but the experience is the same.

 

If this guy already had ill will toward his roommate, and had even thought about what it would be like to shoot him, then ketamine would reinforce his beliefs and even paranoia, telling him that he would be fully justified in acting on his self-reinforced beliefs.

 

Also, funny thing about ketamine, is that the psychedelic dose is actually 10 times less than the dose used for anesthetic purposes. The dangerous thing about ketamine is that not enough is used, but even with anesthetic doses, the amount in the body has to pass through psychedelic amounts as it gets metabolized.

 

(Ketamine was a key part of my college thesis in explaining the experience of dying with an analysis on neurological system effects) :up:

 

Thanks much for the explanations, Itis.

 

My mystification about recreational ketamine was a generic knee-jerk reaction about recreational use of anesthesia drugs. Brings to mind bizarrness such as Micheal Jackson's death or Dennis Hopper walking around toking on nitrous oxide in the movie Blue Velvet. A sedated Jimi Hendrix drowning in his own vomit. Sounds like fun (not).

 

Your description of ketamine's psychotropic effects are not a good advertisement which puts any better light on its recreational potential. :) Hey buddy, wanna buy some ketamine? Best near death experience you ever had!

 

Reading today that it doesn't suppress respiration like most anesthesia, and that in low doses can have anti-depressant effects, might help explain the attractiveness to some people? Many substance abusers self-medicate depression or anxiety, so the ketamine might have a draw from that perspective?

[tercel89]

Best one in town, eh? Not the one who was the armed robbery victim only two blocks from the police station, right?

hahaha LOL !!! Let me guess , wearing white snake skin boots and a solid gold ring on every finger .

[TMF]

Ha, no he's one of the local popular defense attorneys. Got himself a big office and a billboard. Apparently some less than bright thugs decided to rob him a few blocks from the police station, in the morning, during shift change. They did not make it far.

[Daniel]

Nope. The defense was that because he was high on ketamine he didn't know what he was doing. Not kidding. The jury bought that.

Ketamine is a strong drug. I was quite surprised to learn we were using it in Afghanistan. It is used as a feline tranquilizer here in the states. As an 18D he had plenty of access to it.

[TMF]

Ketamine is a strong drug. I was quite surprised to learn we were using it in Afghanistan. It is used as a feline tranquilizer here in the states. As an 18D he had plenty of access to it.

Not stateside he didn't. Even the access he would have had downrange is limited due to how that stuff is accounted for. But once again, he acquired the ketamine he was using stateside through an online pharmacy. He had previously abused pain killers.

[Daniel]

I hadnt read the 2nd page. I see its been covered.

[tercel89]

Ha, no he's one of the local popular defense attorneys. Got himself a big office and a billboard. Apparently some less than bright thugs decided to rob him a few blocks from the police station, in the morning, during shift change. They did not make it far.

Yep thats the one I was talking about ! Drives a Red Dodge Viper and wife drives a Red Mercedes . I heard the exact call when it came over our radio .  

[Guest The Itis]

Plenty of ketamine on the streets. The legit manufacturers of the stuff actually continue producing it in the off hours for illicit sales.

 

Ketamine is a drug with a good use that is abused. It is not purely a drug of abuse.

 

Ketamine is actually on the World Health Organization's list of most basic drugs to have in minimal health care setups.

 

 

As far as the attractiveness of having a near-death experience, I believe it has therapeutic value in absolving death anxiety. It seems the most terrifying aspect of dying is the uncertainty of what the experience will be like. If ketamine is used to allow someone to know what the experience of dying will be like, they know what's in store. It's like watching a scary movie- it's much less scary the second time through. On the downsides, all of the typical effects accompanying near-death experiences (which are actually good things) like a newfound purpose in life, increases in compassion and empathy for others, a greater appreciation for life, a more encompassing worldview, etc, all serve to reinforce what a person believed before the experience. So, if a religious nut has a near death experience, they go on to talk shows and claim God, heaven, afterlife, etc are all real. It's all a matter of chemically validating what content is already in your head. Children who have had near death experiences or who have had psychedelic experiences on ketamine have reported seeing their favorite comic book characters or classmates (who were not dead). The overall reinforcing of prior beliefs means a near death experience or ketamine could make someone a bigger racist or more paranoid or just generally certain of things that they had maybe doubted before. In this case, maybe that the roommate that got shot was screwing him over somehow.

 

Sorry for the off topic, but it's the only real topic I can share my knowledge on in any great detail since it's occupied most of my academic pursuits.

[Guest tdoccrossvilletn]

Ketamine is not solely an animal tranquilizer. It is often used in anesthesia where there may be concern of respiratory depression. It is a much better anesthetic for some cases than opiates. Examples would be anesthesia of asthmatic patients, or patients with an obstructed airway.

Really?

Supposedly ketamine slows breathing. Hmmmm.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

[Guest The Itis]

Really?

Supposedly ketamine slows breathing. Hmmmm.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

 

Where is this supposedly coming from? Ketamine's advantage over other typical anesthetics is that it doesn't slow breathing (or not as much, though you can expect a sedated person to naturally breathe slower)