Syria: Does Use of Chemical Weapons Change Anything?

[TMF]

So now the President is considering military intervention options, because there is some indication that the Assad regime killed several hundred Syrian civilians with chemical weapons?

If the logic goes that chemical weapons are a particularly effective means by which to kill large numbers of civilians, and therefore "we" have a duty to intervene to prevent said killing of large numbers of civilians, then why have we not done so before now? In other words, how is this one particular alleged chemical weapons attack worse than the months-long artillery bombardment of whole Syrian cities by the Assad regime? How is this one particular alleged chemical weapons attack worse than Assad's forces calling in attack aviation against mixed rebel and civilian targets for months?

My point is that the Obama administration has been content watch Assad's forces kill utterly massive numbers of civilians for the past - oh, I don't know... two years or so. Ergo, it's absurd for O to draw some arbitrary line in the sand and say, "You can kill thousands of women and children with indirect fire, Assad, but by golly I will not countenance your forces accomplishing exactly the same thing with gas. When you use a CHEMICAL to kill them, then that's a whole different act!"

No, it's not.

Shifting gears a bit, other members have made some good points against intervention related to the senselessness of aiding nations or peoples who hate our Nation. I'll add to that line of thinking that interfering in the domestic affairs of a sovereign nation is almost never a legitimate means of conflict resolution. How do y'all think we would have reacted if, during the Bloody Kansas period of American history, Ottoman Turks had deployed an army into the United States because the Sultan couldn't ethically watch the American bloodshed?

I've heard the argument made before as to why the use if chemical weapons draws such a reaction from the international community rather than conventional munitions. I wish I could articulate it, as it was a compelling argument, but it signifies a change in the game.

I think we'll be drawn into this by the international community due to our tech. I see us taking the Clinton approach by launching a few tomahawks and calling it a victory to appease the Europeans and the Gulf states. That's about as clean as I see us coming out of this. Worse case we conduct any incursions into Syria by foot or air. Once we do that it turns into a Chinese finger trap.

[RobertNashville]

Chemical weapons, if indeed are being used, changes nothing.

We have little strategic interest in Syria (other than, perhaps, its geographical relation to and possible threat to Israel which is our only true ally in the Middle East). More importantly, there is no "good" side here...neither the established government nor any of the rebel factions are ever going to be our "friends' and are fare more likely to simply kill us given half a chance.

 

We need to stay out of it; see who "wins" and try then try to establish at least some sort of working relationship with them for communication's sake if nothing else.

[mikegideon]

No. No. Yes.

 

I'm with the criminal on this one. I don't trust Obama's agenda, or his red line, or his ability to even pick up the phone without fucking something up. So, without even having to think about the complexities of "Middle East Stability" and human atrocities... no, no, yes.

[TMF]

I'm with the criminal on this one. I don't trust Obama's agenda, or his red line, or his ability to even pick up the phone without ####ing something up. So, without even having to think about the complexities of "Middle East Stability" and human atrocities... no, no, yes.

I don't know if its dangerous or comical that Assad is making a fool out of Obama after he made those idle threats about his "red line". Can you imagine this limp wristed puppet running the show during the Cold War? The Russians would have invaded on principle.

[mikegideon]

I don't know if its dangerous or comical that Assad is making a fool out of Obama after he made those idle threats about his "red line". Can you imagine this limp wristed puppet running the show during the Cold War? The Russians would have invaded on principle.

 

I think Obama needs to pick up his trusty sword and lead the charge, bein' commander in chief and all.

[mikegideon]

Here's a little twist...

 

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/

[mav]

I believe if you look at any poll you will see similar results.  The next question would be, does Washington even care what we think?  I don't think so.  If McCain or Graham had their way, we would probably already be over there.  Fighting or defending whom, I have no idea.

[gregintenn]

You do realize it is quite easy for others to say that about the United States and our ancestors from Europe, right?

Yes I do, actually. Moreover, I do not want nor expect Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Iraq, etc. to come here and try to straighten out our problems.

 

I don't expect many of them want us there either.

[wjh2657]

I believe if you look at any poll you will see similar results.  The next question would be, does Washington even care what we think?  I don't think so.  If McCain or Graham had their way, we would probably already be over there.  Fighting or defending whom, I have no idea.

 

What is important is that the people that bought their congressional seats would make a lot of money in the process.

[Guest nra37922]

The use of chemical weapons is such a barbaric act that the Middle Eastern nations should take care of it.  We should help with manpower by providing all the Crips, Bloods, and Hells Angels types we can round up and fly over - ONE WAY.   Protect Israel and let the others fend for themselves, they hate us anyway.

[TMF]

Here's a little twist...

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/

I suspected from the start that this was possible. It is a popular tactic for the Arabs to do unspeakable crimes to their own kind with the purpose of blaming it on the side they're fighting. Happened all the time in Iraq with Sunnis blowing up their own people then blaming it on the Shias.

Of course, I sorta figured that this one might be a little far fetched because there would be no way they could conceal their actions for ever; too much evidence. There is no way they could keep it a secret if it was them, just like Assad couldn't keep it a secret if it as him. It will be interesting to watch and see how this shakes out with the UN.

[Dustbuster]

Just watched the news funny how bob corker wants a surgical task initiated and a politician from ny wants to jump on it like we did last time again ala Iraq. Idiots The chemical wmd hunt is a bs ploy that will cost is again in money and lives. WTF are they thinking. Especially the idiots picketing the White House. Davidson county schools don't have enough books and our flea less leaders are busy w Syria while our lottery commissioner gets another 250 k bonus arghhh horse hockey Edited August 26, 2013 by Dustbuster

[Guest 6.8 AR]

My own opinion is that Obama wants this to be an excuse to get us into another conflict, rob more of our treasure and blood,

weakening our country further and leading us into oblivion, all rolled up in an Orwellian bistro sandwich.

 

We have no business unless we are some kind of ally of Israel, still, which I believe we are not by Obama's actions toward

them, and we are not our brother's keepers in events we have no control over. This is becoming the end game of the Arab

Spring, with a dictator or two thrown in the mix. The Republicans are becoming the Republican Guard. Remember where that

came from.

 

How the Hell can we fix everything everywhere else when our own country is falling apart? How can we get into another conflict,

only to weaken our stance, that much more, and remaining standing if another country decides to take advantage of our

weakness? Obama is a very weak president, surrounded by a very weak and poor leading administration.

 

When you have the total unemployment our country has, more and more people relying on government and voting themselves

raises each election cycle, and you add another dent in the armor like this, you're about to leap head forward into the abyss.

you can't print your way out of what will happen. ObamaCare will see to the rest of the domestic economy after all the rest gets

counted in.

 

Something very sharp is heading full speed toward the balloon. Watch it burst.

 

Besides, how long did it take to bring Saddam Hussein to justice after he gassed the Kurds? Some justice.

[TMF]

My own opinion is that Obama wants this to be an excuse to get us into another conflict, rob more of our treasure and blood,

weakening our country further and leading us into oblivion, all rolled up in an Orwellian bistro sandwich.

 

We have no business unless we are some kind of ally of Israel, still, which I believe we are not by Obama's actions toward

them, and we are not our brother's keepers in events we have no control over. This is becoming the end game of the Arab

Spring, with a dictator or two thrown in the mix. The Republicans are becoming the Republican Guard. Remember where that

came from.

 

How the Hell can we fix everything everywhere else when our own country is falling apart? How can we get into another conflict,

only to weaken our stance, that much more, and remaining standing if another country decides to take advantage of our

weakness? Obama is a very weak president, surrounded by a very weak and poor leading administration.

 

When you have the total unemployment our country has, more and more people relying on government and voting themselves

raises each election cycle, and you add another dent in the armor like this, you're about to leap head forward into the abyss.

you can't print your way out of what will happen. ObamaCare will see to the rest of the domestic economy after all the rest gets

counted in.

 

Something very sharp is heading full speed toward the balloon. Watch it burst.

 

Besides, how long did it take to bring Saddam Hussein to justice after he gassed the Kurds? Some justice.

 

 

I'll give George Bush some credit; at least when he gave a threat it wasn't idle.  I don't know if you remember, but when Bush lived up to his promise to Saddam and his sons, Ghadaffi immediately abandoned his nuclear program.  For all the issues resulting from that mess, at least the world knew not to screw with us and our President meant what he said.

 

However, with Obama he keeps making these meaningless, vague political announcements in which he tries to look tough but doesn't back it up.  It would be best if he just kept his mouth shut in the first place, but now that he ran his suck we look like pansies since we won't follow it with teeth.  It makes us look weak.  The rest of the world is taking note.

Edited August 26, 2013 by TMF

[frankmako]

who cares.  let them kill each other.  sometimes we don't need to get our self in these types of things. 

[Jonnin]

The idiotic notion that people are more dead from gas than from bombs is one of the most stupid things of all time.  Dead is dead. 

[Guest ThePunisher]

I'll give George Bush some credit; at least when he gave a threat it wasn't idle.  I don't know if you remember, but when Bush lived up to his promise to Saddam and his sons, Ghadaffi immediately abandoned his nuclear program.  For all the issues resulting from that mess, at least the world knew not to screw with us and our President meant what he said.
 
However, with Obama he keeps making these meaningless, vague political announcements in which he tries to look tough but doesn't back it up.  It would be best if he just kept his mouth shut in the first place, but now that he ran his suck we look like pansies since we won't follow it with teeth.  It makes us look weak.  The rest of the world is taking note.

The whole world took note when Obama took his American exceptionalism apology tour right after he was elected, and bowed down to the foreign leaders.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'll give George Bush some credit; at least when he gave a threat it wasn't idle.  I don't know if you remember, but when Bush lived up to his promise to Saddam and his sons, Ghadaffi immediately abandoned his nuclear program.  For all the issues resulting from that mess, at least the world knew not to screw with us and our President meant what he said.

 

However, with Obama he keeps making these meaningless, vague political announcements in which he tries to look tough but doesn't back it up.  It would be best if he just kept his mouth shut in the first place, but now that he ran his suck we look like pansies since we won't follow it with teeth.  It makes us look weak.  The rest of the world is taking note.

I agree about Bush. He lived up to what he said, but he also signed the Patriot Act. That's one of the things I will always

fault Bush for. His father could have finished the job, but stood with the agreement with allies and stopped Desert Storm

before getting Saddam in 1991.

 

Obama is a very weak leader, except for the fact that he is continuing the policies of the previous administration to a

different goal and will turn it around and blame Bush for that, once again. Obama will only lead us into a war no one can

win and all can lose. By Republicans, I really meant McCain and Corker's remarks about entering into conflict with Syria.

I can't think of any reason to do anything with Syria, except to keep some kind of aggression into Israel from happening.

 

With the oil we buy from the middle east, all we seem to be doing is funding the jihad against us. Our foreign policy is

killing us and Obama is doing what he can to prevent our own energy independence, which is something we could be

doing. What would have been a better option, and it would have never happened would have been to nuke Iraq and

Afghanistan, instead of spilling our own blood over there.

 

Bush did do what he said. No argument there, but it was the wrong course to take. I had a different opinion back then, but

I see where I was wrong, also. We threw our own ally under the bus in 2009 and if that is the case, we have no business

over there until we mend that fence. You won't see that happen with Obama. He is square on the side of Islam.

[tnguy]

Here's a little twist...

 

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/

 

If true, that could be a direct attempt to provoke Obama's thin-red-line. Yet another reason to stay out of things that don't concern us directly.

 

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

[three5seven]

Folks have been fighting in the middle east literally since the beginning of time. Read Genesis. The only reason the US ever considers meddling or does meddle in middle eastern affairs is to keep enough stability in the region so global oil prices don't shoot through the roof. Get tired of the BS government propaganda to justify invading their countries. (Remember all of the WMD's that were found in Iraq?) Atrocities happen all over the world but the US doesn't intervene unless it is in the middle east. So long as Israel isn't threatened or gas isn't over $5 a gallon, let em' work it out on their own.    

[Guest nra37922]

If gas goes over $5 a gallon and we don't lose any more of our children fighting in these asswipe countries, I could live with that.  Could be the motivation to actually drill here and development alternate forms of energy that are actually viable.

 

Tired of the U.S. meaning Uncle Sucker

[Guest ThePunisher]

Obama is against oil drilling, but he's all for cronyism green energy that lines his pockets from taxpayers money. Edited August 26, 2013 by ThePunisher

[Guest rmse9]

Obama is so out of touch with what is happening in the world and he has no idea what to do. Egypt is a mess, Syria is a mess, Russian relations a mess, British relations a mess, all countries in South America a mess, Africa a mess and most of all Obama is a mess and looked upon by the entire world as a liar and weakling.

As far as Syria, let them murder each other because that is some we will not have to deal with later.

[TMF]

Syria warns that any military strike by the west will be met with a strike on Israel from Assad.



Syria, Iran issue first explicit warning to Israel if US attacks | The Times of Israel
http://www.timesofisrael.com/syria-iran-issue-explicit-warning-to-israel-if-us-attacks/

[Worriedman]

Obama is so out of touch with what is happening in the world and he has no idea what to do.

I disagree, the forces that run Obama are steadily about the business of bringing this Nation to its knees, everything is going exactly as planned.