45ACP. reloading so they function.

[vujade]

Hello.

 

I've had some success with 45acp reloading but I realized it was mostly because the gun had been forgiving. 

 

My Dad recently acquired a Spring Armory 1911 (GI model) and it is TIGHT.  Not a lot of frame/slide movement.  The barrel is tight on the slide.  When I bench it and shoot, it's 5 shot groups are often tighter than other 45s I shoot beside it (Sig 1911 and S&W 1911).

 

Here is the problem/question - while it's 100% reliable with factory rounds, it chokes on my reloads.

 

I've tried multiple magazines, made sure we weren't limp wristing, etc. The problem is still the same.  Gun will fire the round and slide moves back attempting to extract.  The case however sticks to the slide/held by the extractor and fails to eject.   It then tries to feed the next round with a case still in tow.  This happens about 3 out of every 10 rounds.  Once in  while, it will eject the round but fail to feed the next round.  The slide just gets stuck right before hitting the next round in the magazine.  One can simply slap the slide forward to feed the next round or pull the slide back and release to feed the next round. 

 

I measured several brands of factory rounds.  .470 is the diameter of the case around the case mouth area.  All my reloads are .471-.472.  (they were .473 before and it was jamming about all of them and then i turned up the crimp).  I believe this is the culprit.  I've tried lead to jacketed rounds and tried different OAL and I can't get them any smaller!  Too much crimp and I buckle the case. 

 

I do bell the case during the powder throwing step so that it scraps the lead less during seating. 

 

I'm using 2 different no name jacketed FMJ bullets (230 grain) and 2 types of Missouri Bullet Company lead (200 grain LSWC and 230 grain LRN).  + 3.8 and 4.0 grains of Bullseye.

 

These loads are pretty good on different 45s I've shot (Sig p220, Sig 1911 and SW1911)

 

At the range, a friend suggested I up the powder a bit more (try 4.3 and 4.5 grains of bullseye).  I'd rather not do that though since 4.0 works really well for my other guns.  But do you think so?  Maybe this gun just needs more 'umpf'?

 

I could try more taper?   Maybe a smaller OAL?

 

I took the gun apart, no burrs or anything wrong with it (it's perfect with about 100 rounds of different (and cheap)factory ammo.  How about a lighter spring?  (i would use mine but it doesn't fit his gun (his recoil spring/guide rod is different than mine and won't fit).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Luke E.]

Hello.

 

I've had some success with 45acp reloading but I realized it was mostly because the gun had been forgiving. 

 

My Dad recently acquired a Spring Armory 1911 (GI model) and it is TIGHT.  Not a lot of frame/slide movement.  The barrel is tight on the slide.  When I bench it and shoot, it's 5 shot groups are often tighter than other 45s I shoot beside it (Sig 1911 and S&W 1911).

 

Here is the problem/question - while it's 100% reliable with factory rounds, it chokes on my reloads.

 

I've tried multiple magazines, made sure we weren't limp wristing, etc. The problem is still the same.  Gun will fire the round and slide moves back attempting to extract.  The case however sticks to the slide/held by the extractor and fails to eject.   It then tries to feed the next round with a case still in tow.  This happens about 3 out of every 10 rounds.  Once in  while, it will eject the round but fail to feed the next round.  The slide just gets stuck right before hitting the next round in the magazine.  One can simply slap the slide forward to feed the next round or pull the slide back and release to feed the next round. 

 

I measured several brands of factory rounds.  .470 is the diameter of the case around the case mouth area.  All my reloads are .471-.472.  (they were .473 before and it was jamming about all of them and then i turned up the crimp).  I believe this is the culprit.  I've tried lead to jacketed rounds and tried different OAL and I can't get them any smaller!  Too much crimp and I buckle the case. 

 

I do bell the case during the powder throwing step so that it scraps the lead less during seating. 

 

I'm using 2 different no name jacketed FMJ bullets (230 grain) and 2 types of Missouri Bullet Company lead (200 grain LSWC and 230 grain LRN).  + 3.8 and 4.0 grains of Bullseye.

 

These loads are pretty good on different 45s I've shot (Sig p220, Sig 1911 and SW1911)

 

At the range, a friend suggested I up the powder a bit more (try 4.3 and 4.5 grains of bullseye).  I'd rather not do that though since 4.0 works really well for my other guns.  But do you think so?  Maybe this gun just needs more 'umpf'?

 

I could try more taper?   Maybe a smaller OAL?

 

I took the gun apart, no burrs or anything wrong with it (it's perfect with about 100 rounds of different (and cheap)factory ammo.  How about a lighter spring?  (i would use mine but it doesn't fit his gun (his recoil spring/guide rod is different than mine and won't fit).

 

 I'd say your friend at the range is steering you in the right direction. If they will chamber, fire and sometimes extract then your most likely not loading them hot enough to make that gun function.

[mikegideon]

Get these...

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/716704/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-45-acp-45-auto-rim

 

http://www.egwguns.com/chamber-checkers/4-caliber-ammo-chamber-checker/

 

Note that the die is out of stock at Midway. Just used the link so you can see the gazillion 5 star reviews. I assume you're not using one now. The die has a carbide sizing ring that really helps sometimes.

 

Then, use the chamber checker to test your finished rounds. Every once in awhile, I'll have one that's sticky. I set them aside to be shot seperately. I'll usually give them another pass thru the crimp die and check them again. That fixes some

[mikegideon]

 I'd say your friend at the range is steering you in the right direction. If they will chamber, fire and sometimes extract then your most likely not loading them hot enough to make that gun function.

 

That's a possibility too. What I said above assumes your loads are right.

[jaysouth]

Any idea of what weight recoil spring you are using?

a 1911 in .45 at the velocities you are loading to might not need more than a 14# spring.

Swap springs with another of your .45s and see if that makes a difference. I keep a bag of recoil springs in the shop in weights from 11 to 18 pounds. For a "standard" 16# should handle medium reloads (like yours) to factory ammo.

Is there a shok buff in your gun?

[Raoul]

Odd question, but does the Springer have a full size guide rod?

[Luke E.]

That's a possibility too. What I said above assumes your loads are right.

Both items you suggested are good to have around regardless of wether you have a problem or not, especially the chamber gauge.
The reason I say it's a load problem is that some are working fine. If you have a size problem most likely none will fit. A light load on the other hand, when right on the edge might work one shot but not the next. Who knows, the ones that are working could be a fraction of a grain hotter thus causing them to work. I'd bump your a little (assuming you're not near max) and I'd bet you think will start working more like you want them to.

[gregintenn]

More powder or a lighter recoil spring is where I'd start. The factory loads it shoots reliably are almost certainly hotter than what you've listed you're loading.

[vujade]

hi guys.  I was in the man cave loading some.  I made several dozen rounds in 4.1 grains of Bullseye (vs. what we were using today in 3.8 and 4.0 grains).

 

I upped the crimp a tad as well.  This is really odd but the bullet doesn't seem like a perfect circle.  (using calipers, taking the diameter - some areas of the bullet are .470 and some are .473!?!

 

To answer :

 

The Springfield Armory is NOT using a full length guide rod.

 

I'm not sure the weight of the spring but it's about an inch taller than the springs on the Sig 1911 and S&W 1911.

 

At the range, we thought about swapping springs.  I took apart the SA and the Sig but realized the spring in the sig won't fit (it uses a smaller diameter guide rod.)  I could use the S&W but it's got a match fit bushing in there and didn't have a tool to take it part at the range.  I think i'll order my Dad some lighter springs as well.   I'm not sure what's the weight of his current spring is but I'll get 14-16 pound springs to try out.

[vujade]

A case gauge was indispensable when I was getting a load for 223.  I'll get one for 45 too then.

 

and while the Lee carbide taper crimp die is sold out, i'll get the standard Lee factory taper crimp die too.   I like the idea of using the seating die to seat and a separate die to set the crimp.

 

Not using any shock buffers.

Edited August 17, 2013 by vujade

[vujade]

this one looks good to try out different springs:

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/631660/wilson-combat-spring-caddy-1911-government

 

Without knowing whats in the gun now (my Dad got it used but it's looks new enough with case, papers, etc.), I don't know if it's a 16 pound factory one - if it's much longer (1.5 inches or so) than what's in my S&W1911, can I assume that's definitely NOT factory 16?

[mikegideon]

Both items you suggested are good to have around regardless of wether you have a problem or not, especially the chamber gauge.
The reason I say it's a load problem is that some are working fine. If you have a size problem most likely none will fit. A light load on the other hand, when right on the edge might work one shot but not the next. Who knows, the ones that are working could be a fraction of a grain hotter thus causing them to work. I'd bump your a little (assuming you're not near max) and I'd bet you think will start working more like you want them to.

 

45 is funky for me. If I seat a bullet that's a little cocked, it sticks in the chamber gauge, even after it's been thru the crimp die.. That's why I check all of them. My loads work consistently in all 3 of my 45's, but I check all my rounds.

[mikegideon]

hi guys.  I was in the man cave loading some.  I made several dozen rounds in 4.1 grains of Bullseye (vs. what we were using today in 3.8 and 4.0 grains).

 

I upped the crimp a tad as well.  This is really odd but the bullet doesn't seem like a perfect circle.  (using calipers, taking the diameter - some areas of the bullet are .470 and some are .473!?!

 

To answer :

 

The Springfield Armory is NOT using a full length guide rod.

 

I'm not sure the weight of the spring but it's about an inch taller than the springs on the Sig 1911 and S&W 1911.

 

At the range, we thought about swapping springs.  I took apart the SA and the Sig but realized the spring in the sig won't fit (it uses a smaller diameter guide rod.)  I could use the S&W but it's got a match fit bushing in there and didn't have a tool to take it part at the range.  I think i'll order my Dad some lighter springs as well.   I'm not sure what's the weight of his current spring is but I'll get 14-16 pound springs to try out.

 

I use 5 grains of Bulleye for 230gr FMJ's. 

[Lumber_Jack]

I think you're just loading them to light. Your slide isn't getting all the way back before returning forward. So you end up with a loaded round and an empty case jammed together.

You can use your barrel out if the 1911 as a temporary chamber gauge

[Raoul]

I have a Remington R-1 and was having cycling problems. I installed a full length guide rod and it really helped.
I can't comment on the Bullseye. I use 5 gr of Unique and have no cycling issues in any of my 1911's.

I'd up the powder first.

[vujade]

Yes - I've been using the barrel as a gauge.  The first ones were very tight/wouldn't go all the way in.  That fixed a lot of the issues.  (this was last week).

 

Now it's just doing as described. 

 

I've got a gage on order from Midway.  A taper crimp.  and 2 springs:  15 and 16 pounds. 

[Luke E.]

45 is funky for me. If I seat a bullet that's a little cocked, it sticks in the chamber gauge, even after it's been thru the crimp die.. That's why I check all of them. My loads work consistently in all 3 of my 45's, but I check all my rounds.

That's interesting Mike, I've not had any issue like that before but I'm glad you brought it up because if I do have the problem I'll know where to look.

[Luke E.]

I think you're just loading them to light. Your slide isn't getting all the way back before returning forward. So you end up with a loaded round and an empty case jammed together.

You can use your barrel out if the 1911 as a temporary chamber gauge

I'm like you, I bet if he would bump the charge to 4.3gr it would clear everything up. Might not even take that much.

[Dave Shooter]

How far are the fired cases ejecting?  If they are just dribbling out of the gun and landing at your feet then likely need either a lighter recoil spring for that load or bump up charge.  If going more than five feet than spring/load might not be the issue.

 

Also, have you check the ejector?  Is it tight in the frame and not cracked or chipped?

[gregintenn]

I use 5 grains of Bulleye for 230gr FMJ's. 

Me too. Have never had one to fail to feed, fire, or eject in any 45 I own.

[mikegideon]

That's interesting Mike, I've not had any issue like that before but I'm glad you brought it up because if I do have the problem I'll know where to look.

 

May not catch it without a chamber gauge. I started out with one. I'm kinda picky that way. I'm one of those guys that started loading rifle stuff before I ever got into pistol loads.

[vujade]

Past Friday - the goods from midway came in.  I tested the rounds on the 45 ACP gage - Yes, about all of the old ones before I added a crimp didn't fit!  I had 30-40% of the other loads have a tight fit or would indicate being too large/bullet not seated deep enough.   I installed a Lee factory Crimp die.  Adjusted the bullet seating die so that it only SAT the bullet and applied No crimp.  Crimping is done independently by the new die.   I found this more consistent and every round now fits no problem on the gage.

 

15 and 16 pound recoil springs arrived as well.  We installed the 16 pounders.   (same size/length as the one already there)

 

I made loads from 4.1 to 4.7 grains pushing 200 grain LSWC, 230 grain LRN and 230 grain FMJ.  Same Tula Large primers on mostly Winchester brass.

 

Same good magazines:  Wilson combat 47Ds. (new and flawless in my 1911s)

 

Off to the range this morning with my Dad to try all these out.

 

For the first 50 rounds - every round to every other round would either fail to eject (it would fire, slide moves back, but the extractor would now hold on to the empty case.) or it would fail to feed.  It would eject the case but not have enough 'umph' to strip a round from the magazine feed it.  (the slide goes back and stops when trying to strip that round from the magazines). 

 

After 50 rounds, I don't know if it loosened up a bit but the next 100 or so rounds - we could get 1-2 magazines to go without an issue.  Then once in a while, we'll have the issues described above. 

 

We tried changing to the 15 pounder recoil spring - no difference.  We tried some factory ammo - it was flawless.  The reloads using FMJ were about flawless (i think we had 1 or 2 out of the 25 loaded fail to eject).  The LRN were ok but also not perfect.  The LSWC were the most problematic but like i said, towards the end better but not enough to trust a life on...

 

So, I've been googling.  Some recipes had 5.0 grains of Bullseye.  I'll make a few 4.9 and 5.1 loads and see if those are better.  I'm going to see about polishing his feed ramps/barrel throat - it's pretty new - black and not at all polished.  I reckon the lead would hang up on the rough parts when trying to load.  And what do you guys think of the extractor?  Some suggest bending it a bit to get more tension.

 

We're open to any other ideas.

 

The gun is VERY accurate.  I hate the GI sights but we can hit what we aim for pretty easily.  (25 yard shooting).  The trigger is very sweet - 3.5 pounds with no creep/travel/etc... best handgun trigger I've tried. Now if only it can be more reliable.

[mikegideon]

If the gun runs fine with factory rounds, then don't mess with the gun. It's too easy to turn one that works into one that doesn't. I won't touch a 1911 extractor. I'll carry it to Tim Calhoun first. 1911's can be finicky. But again... if it works with factory ammo, it ain't the gun.

[Lumber_Jack]

I think you need to get over 5 grains and use the standard recoil sprig first.

[glock55]

I am not sure I am qualified to offer advise on reloading as I am fairly new to it and still learning the process myself. I did seem to have the same issues as yourself when I started and can only speak to what seems to have worked for me. Let me preface my comments by saying I use a RCBS single stage press and RCBS dies only. No reason other than name brand and I wanted to become familiar with one brand while in the learning process. I have found the following three corrections to have resolved my issues.

 

1) Proper case resizing: I now adjust my resizing die so there is only the space of a sheet of typing paper between the press and die with press fully raised. I found that

                                       touching the press and backing off 1/4 turn did not seem to size the case far enough down.

2) Use of maximum cartridge gauge: I now gauge every cartridge and find if it will drop in and fall out freely the gun will cycle the cartridge.

3) Use of a chronograph: I now reload based on the chronograph more so that the amount of powder. I use the manuals as a guide but also have found at what loads the

                                          gun fails to properly cycle. I am still working through each caliber to find a load that works best base on the chronograph.

 

These are the 3 things that seemed to work for me. I feel the use of the cartridge gauge forced me to pay greater attention to the details of reloading. I also record every detail of my loads so I can repeat in the future. Hope this helps.