My Dedicated 22lr Upper..

[Earl33]

After a lot of looking, reading and asking I decided on a 20" match grade upper from the fine folks at JSE Surplus. The barrel is stainless steel with 1:16 twist, A2 flash hider and wrapped with a 15" vented free float handguard. Inside the flat top upper is a CMMG stainless bolt group. Package included a clear 26 round full body magazine. This upper attached to my PSA lower without a hiccup. I topped it off with a 3-9 x 50 mm Nikon Buckmaster that I already had ( may change it out later ). JSE recommends a 100 rd break in procedure that takes a little time and a lot of cleaning patches to insure function and increase accuracy. After the break in procedure I disassembled, cleaned and inspected all the components for fit and wear. Everything looked good. I haven't had the opportunity to bench the rife and put lead down range yet but will post an update after I do..

 

 

[KKing]

Man I'm jealous. I've been building a dedicated upper on paper for a while now, sadly it'll be along time before it comes to fruition. I tried a 22lr conversion kit but it didn't work out. Let us know how she does on the bench

[ted]

How mutch was it , also give us a update have been thinking about going with a 22 upper myself , have the cmmg 22 con kit , can you tell a big diff between the two would like your input .

[Earl33]

I was wanting to go shoot this afternoon but the wifey had other plans for me. She gots to go get her hair did and I'm on KP (kid patrol). I have 5-6 different variations (brand,  bullet weight) in ammo and just ordered two more. I'm going to do a little testing and will let you guys know how things go. I feel like a kid at Christmas with a new toy and no batteries for it.  

[PackinMama]

I have a CMMG Sierra upper that I put on a PSA lower and I can honestly say that out of all the guns I've ever own/owned or shot, this one is my absolute favorite. It's cheap to feed, I don't need hearing protection when I shoot it, it's dead accurate out to 75 yards, and it never jams or misfires until you've shot around 500 rounds through it and the bolt becomes so gooped up with crud that it just can't cycle anymore. I have a Vortex Strikefire red dot on it with back up irons and I can pick off golf balls easily at 50 yards.

 

I can't speak for the JSE upper that Earl has, but I honestly don't see how it could shoot any better than my CMMG.  If you don't have a dedicated .22 upper and you enjoy shooting, do yourself a huge favor and get one!!! :) 

[Earl33]

Alright, here is what I have so far. This was at 25 yards off sandbags and had calm winds.

Remington Golden Bullets (value pack)

[URL=http://s987.photobucket.com/user/earl33/media/image-6.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Winchester Copper Plated Hollow Point, 36 gr

[URL=http://s987.photobucket.com/user/earl33/media/image-8.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Winchester M22 40 gr.

[URL=http://s987.photobucket.com/user/earl33/media/image-7.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Remington Thunderbolts 

[URL=http://s987.photobucket.com/user/earl33/media/image-10.jpg.html][/URL]

 

I thought the Thunderbolt  group had to be pure luck so I tried them again..

[URL=http://s987.photobucket.com/user/earl33/media/image-9.jpg.html][/URL]

 

I have more to test but this is what I have so far..

[Oh Shoot]

I've got a CMMG (top one in pic), has been really great. Pretty much 100% with most anything I put through it, as long as I use Black Dog mags, not quite as reliable with CMMG ones. I can't claim it's any more accurate than my standard barreled 10/22's or Marlin 60, though. But I really like having it in "the kit".

 

(Note: It's since gotten it's own scope and bipod, and I eventually gave the pistol upper its own dedicated lower and carry it separately in a tennis racquet case.
 

 

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

....I tried a 22lr conversion kit but it didn't work out. Let us know how she does on the bench

 

Don't know it was part of the prob, but one thing about the conversion kits, at least the CMMG ones: you really should run the CMMG charging handle. The slot is filled in, so you don't get the occasional dreaded casing between handle and bolt stoppage.

 

How mutch was it , also give us a update have been thinking about going with a 22 upper myself , have the cmmg 22 con kit , can you tell a big diff between the two would like your input .

 

I can't compare, since didn't start with the kit, but fact that barrel has proper diameter and twist for a .22LR bullet has to make it more accurate just from physics logic. Also, it gives you an exact barrel chamber for shell to seat instead of firing from the chamber adapter on the end of the conversion bolt well back before ever touching the barrel.

 

And if you go the dedicated route, you do know you can use your conversion bolt in a dedicated .22LR AR barrel, and just change the chamber adapter to the barrel collar, right?

 

- OS

Edited August 22, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Troutburger]

I was expecting to see tighter groups with that upper and scope at 25 yards. Seems like everything would be more like your first thunderbolt group.

 

Are you going to try any match ammo through it? If so let's see some pics too. 

[PackinMama]

I've found that Remington Thunderbolts are just about the dirtiest ammo that you can shoot. They might be accurate, but they sure get your gun crudded up fast.

Oh Shoot - I've been wondering if you can use a conversion bolt in a dedicated upper. The bolt in my CMMG upper isn't stainless and I have a stainless conversion bolt that I'd like to use in it if I could. So how do you go about changing the chamber collar to the barrel adapter?

[PackinMama]

I was expecting to see tighter groups with that upper and scope at 25 yards. Seems like everything would be more like your first thunderbolt group.
 
Are you going to try any match ammo through it? If so let's see some pics too.

I thought the same thing. I've tried several different types of ammo in my CMMG, and all my groups at 25 yds. with a red dot (no magnification) are just as good or better than the grouping Earl had with the Thunderbolts. (I'm not bragging, please don't take it that way)

[Oh Shoot]

I've found that Remington Thunderbolts are just about the dirtiest ammo that you can shoot. They might be accurate, but they sure get your gun crudded up fast.

Oh Shoot - I've been wondering if you can use a conversion bolt in a dedicated upper. The bolt in my CMMG upper isn't stainless and I have a stainless conversion bolt that I'd like to use in it if I could. So how do you go about changing the chamber collar to the barrel adapter?

 

Just ease one out and put in the other.  From this:

 

To this:

 

They both come in stainless also. If you want your stainless one to be all stainless, you'll have to buy the stainless collar:

 

Don't think there's probably anywhere cheaper to get it than CMMG? 55 clams there.

 

If you've never taken it off for cleaning, you do have to use some care, so as not to bend the arms that hold it:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0iwQxpwXQ0

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsw1SdLK764

 

- OS

Edited August 22, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[PackinMama]

Thanks OS! :)

[Earl33]

I was expecting to see tighter groups with that upper and scope at 25 yards. Seems like everything would be more like your first thunderbolt group.

 

Are you going to try any match ammo through it? If so let's see some pics too. 

I have more variations to run down the pipe and will keep this updated. I did shot some subsonic Aguila 38gr sunday at 50 yards with all five shots grouping really well. The trouble was it didn't have enough energy to fully cycle after the shot. I've been looking local for match ammo but pickings are slim. I do have some Eley Target to try. I too was expecting better groups but at the defense of the upper, it was getting dark and I was shooting off my 4wheeler. I have a feeling that the barrel is a bit more accurate than the person holding it.

 

I thought the same thing. I've tried several different types of ammo in my CMMG, and all my groups at 25 yds. with a red dot (no magnification) are just as good or better than the grouping Earl had with the Thunderbolts. (I'm not bragging, please don't take it that way)

Actually, I was wanting some info on how well other uppers are grouping and what kind of ammo folks are running in them.. Its  going to take a little time but I will figure this deal out... All info is greatly appreciated..

[Oh Shoot]

Actually, I was wanting some info on how well other uppers are grouping and what kind of ammo folks are running in them.. Its  going to take a little time but I will figure this deal out... All info is greatly appreciated..

 

/begin ramble

 

I get generally somewhat better than your 25 yard target pics at 50 yards with cheap scope and bipod with my CMMG upper, but still not as good as my 10/22s which are nothing special except they have Volquarten hammers in them, which gives a lighter trigger than my AR, and that may be the main difference between them really.

 

That's shooting Blazer bulk 40 grain, lead round nose,  main round I've been shooting for about three years. Getting a bit low on that though, and last time I shot it used a variety of other loads I've had squirreled away, and got much worse overall results. Not that I really chase precise groups very much anyway.

 

Of course, differences in .22 ammo make bigger differences in accuracy than with any other caliber, especially crummy ones where there are only about 20% in a box that have same powder load. That's one reason I settled in on the Blazer, as it's really consistent, matter of fact seems to be exactly same as their Mini Mag, just different bullet. Couple of buds also claim it's almost as good as some of the higher end stuff they shoot in better rifles than any  of mine, and of course at about half the price (or at least it, was).

 

Try to settle in a load that at least sounds and feels the same each shot (unlike the previous years of Golden Bullets for example -- bang, fft, bang bang fft), steady down, watch the breathing and trigger squeeze, and it'll undoubtedly get better. Mini Mags are of course rather a "standard", but on the pricier side. On the third hand, though, they seem to be actually frigging available here and there again.

 

Speaking of those Thunderbolts, btw, I've shot them off and on since the 60's, and they've always seemed pretty consistent to me, at least compared with various other bulk and I really do like plain 40 grain lead the best.  I don't care about the relative "dirtyness" of various .22LR. I can clean a gun. Which, btw in the case of a 10/22 is about every thousand rounds. Maybe. If I start to feel guilty.  Or not. :)  However my CMMG bolt really does seem to need it at around 400 rounds or so, as it will get dirty enough to start being a bit squirrely.

 

/ramble off

 

- OS

Edited August 23, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Earl33]

Thanks OS..

 

I tore the rifle down, cleaned and checked everything for wear and alignment. Everything seemed to be alright.. The barrel nut was a little loose and could be a contributing factor along with operator error.  

 

I have done some adjusting in the optic department. I took my Nikon off and replaced it with the BSA thats been on my Viper. I received my mini-mags and Remington Vipers from Cabelas yesterday. Also have some Federal Auto-Match, Eley Target and another brand, that escapes me at the moment to try. Taking a box of Aguila subsonic back for picture purposes. 5 shots grouped well at 50 yards but the rifle functioned as a single shot.

 

 Anyone shooting a bolt action 22lr w/ match barrel? If so, what ammo gives the best results? The lower velocity round seemed to be a winner but the low recoil is the devil.      

 

  Going to our range today and will post my findings tonight.

[Earl33]

Quick update.. It doesn't look good for the home team.. At 50 yards with 8 variations of ammo it was less than desired performance.. I didn't take pictures, but with iron sights on my 7.62 Saiga I hold better 5 round groups at 50 yards. I'm giving it one more chance tomorrow with the optic and mount that's currently on my 5.56 upper. I don't want to degrade the setup without exhausting all possibilities, but today was very frustrating. I'm at a loss.        

[Oh Shoot]

Quick update.. It doesn't look good for the home team.. At 50 yards with 8 variations of ammo it was less than desired performance.. I didn't take pictures, but with iron sights on my 7.62 Saiga I hold better 5 round groups at 50 yards. I'm giving it one more chance tomorrow with the optic and mount that's currently on my 5.56 upper. I don't want to degrade the setup without exhausting all possibilities, but today was very frustrating. I'm at a loss.

 

Well heck, sorry to hear that,  something sure doesn't seem up to snuff. I mean, that Nikon scope oughtta be more than fine.

 

You said "loose barrel nut" .. hmmm, maybe a clue to some other manufacturing prob? JSE seems to be well enough thought of and all, so I just dunno.

 

- OS

Edited August 25, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Earl33]

Well heck, sorry to hear that,  something sure doesn't seem up to snuff. I mean, that Nikon scope oughtta be more than fine.

 

You said "loose barrel nut" .. hmmm, maybe a clue to some other manufacturing prob? JSE seems to be well enough thought of and all, so I just dunno.

 

- OS

Its not even consistent. I believe I can hold a better pattern with my Saiga 12 at 50 yards. The only thing other than a factory issue would be my scope rings, thats why Im going to try my 5.56 setup. I know its true.

[Oh Shoot]

Its not even consistent. I believe I can hold a better pattern with my Saiga 12 at 50 yards. The only thing other than a factory issue would be my scope rings, thats why Im going to try my 5.56 setup. I know its true.

 

I see you don't have irons on it, so you can't compare using that. Those are just Magpul polymer ones you see on mine, and I can hit a tin can at 50 yards most every time with irons on bipod, and with $20 Barska scope most every time at 100, just to give ya an idea, and don't reckon the CMMG "Wasp" 18" 1:16 barrel is any kind of match grade or anything.

 

Wish you wuz around here so we could do some testing.

 

- OS

Edited August 25, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[PackinMama]

With my CMMG, I can hit golf balls consistently at 25 yards and 9 out of 10 at 50 yards. That is with a Vortex Strikefire red dot with no magnification. I can also do it with just my backup irons which are set up to co-witness with the red dot. There is definitely something wrong with your setup. You could possibly have a bad barrel.

[KKing]

Edit: nevermind Edited August 25, 2013 by KKing

[Oh Shoot]

Ok I have a question about your bolt carrier group. Since you have a dedicated 22lr barrel does your blot carrier group have what looks to be the empty .223 casing on the end that goes into the chamber?

Reason I ask, on the conversion kit I bought the neck on the casing was too small. It was stripping a very small amount of coating and lead off of every round and making it wildly inaccurate. ..

 

See post 12 for chamber adapter vs barrel collar. You are talking about the chamber adapter, which won't work with dedicated .22LR barrel that uses CMMG/Ceiner type conversion. This is pistol barrel, but shows the chamber clearly, same as rifle barrels.

 

 

- OS

Edited August 25, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[KKing]

See post 12 for chamber adapter vs barrel collar. You are talking about the chamber adapter, which won't work with dedicated .22LR barrel that uses CMMG/Ceiner type conversion. This is pistol barrel, but shows the chamber clearly, same as rifle barrels.



- OS

Ah you beat me to it, I actually read that right after I posted and tried to ninja edit it

[Oh Shoot]

Ah you beat me to it, I actually read that right after I posted and tried to ninja edit it

 

Aha, my ninjas were also on it at same time ... oh well, will leave it for clarification for any others, no biggie.

 

- OS