Remember those M1 Abrams Tanks We Gave Egypt?

[TMF]

Well they're using them to shwack the Muslim Brotherhood.  For all the crap we've been bitching about in regard to giving them military aide, it appears that the Egyptian military are the only ones in the world right now dealing death to the Muslim Brotherhood and doing their best to protect Christian Egyptians.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is how they handle "occupy" protesters; bulldozers and fire. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest nra37922]

Guess my wife and I can cross Cairo off our vacation plans for this year.

[nightrunner]

Good for them!

[Guest TankerHC]

Want to hear some real BS about those M1's? We didnt build them. Back in the 80's the US agreed to let Egypt build their own M1 Tank Plant. A company out of MS built it (I worked for the owner of the company when I was still on Active Duty). It was called the Abu Zabaal Tank Factory, now its the Abu Zabaal Tank Repair Facility. We sent them component kits and the tanks were built (assembled), repaired and maintained at their own M1 Factory.  Retired US Army Master Gunners run their gunnery program. Three of them are friends of mine, one was over there for years and quit contracting last year, two are still there. Early last year, against the recommendations of the Armor Community it was decided to completely shut down our Lima, Ohio plant, which has been building our tanks since before WWII. The reason they didnt want it shut down was because the skill in manufacturing tanks is perishable and once you shut it down, when the need arises for tanks or tank components they would have to train employees all over again. The decision was made to close it anyway. April of last year, Egypt asked that the Egyption M1 component assembly be done at Lima, in May it was agreed to by the US. We couldnt keep our own Tank Plant opened for us, but we did for the Egyptians. Although that does help us in it keeps our skilled tank manufacturers on the job, just not building tanks for us.

 

We are outfitting the whole Arab World with the Abrams and Bradleys. When I was over in Kuwait in 96 training the Kuwaiti Liberation Brigade, we had the M1A1 Heavy, we had not yet been well into transition to the M1A2 at that point, only the first units of the 1st Cav Division were starting to get theirs, 1/12 Cav (The unit I was in) was supposed to be first in line, our transition date had already been set but we ended up going first to Kuwait so we were bumped back to the end of the line. While only one unit from 1st Cav had started transition to the A2, the Kuwaitis already had a full battalion of M1A2's and the Kuwaiti Liberation Brigade was still on the M-84 (Czech export version of the T-72), we trained them in US Armor tactics on the M-84 while their M1A2's were sitting in the Motor Pool at Camp Liberty (The name of their Camp at the time). When we ran their CALFEX they brought up the A2's, which were supported by Kuwaiti F-18's. They hadnt fielded Bradleys yet so were still using BMP's and BMD's.

 

Last month I got an email from the organization I used to contract for. They are looking for Retired M1 Master Gunners to go to Besmaya Range in Iraq to complete the M1 Transition for the Iraqi Army. (No thanks, Im done with that sh___). But if there are any M1 Tankers here in the ranks of SFC through CSM (Retired) and wants to make some good money contracting, message me and Ill pass on the information.

 

Just last month GD went up against Germany (Who wanted to supply the Leo 2A4 to Saudi) and won that contract. Saudi will be getting the Abrams.

 

This June US M1 Armor Units trained with the Jordanian Army and their Challengers. The Challenger is a POS, that would be a good demonstration to help sell Jordan the M1.

 

Anyway, you can probably find all of that online. Except maybe the contracting part. (Maybe), but we did the exact same thing with Iran back in the 70's. The F-14 was too expensive, the decision was made to shut down the F-14 line. It was kept open when Iran placed their order which also brought down the per copy price which allowed them to be widely fielded to our Navy. Thats not the only thing, we have been doing it for years on all sorts of equipment.

[frankmako]

we should let the whole place fall.  

[TMF]

Want to hear some real BS about those M1's? We didnt build them. Back in the 80's the US agreed to let Egypt build their own M1 Tank Plant. A company out of MS built it (I worked for the owner of the company when I was still on Active Duty). It was called the Abu Zabaal Tank Factory, now its the Abu Zabaal Tank Repair Facility. We sent them component kits and the tanks were built (assembled), repaired and maintained at their own M1 Factory.  Retired US Army Master Gunners run their gunnery program. Three of them are friends of mine, one was over there for years and quit contracting last year, two are still there. Early last year, against the recommendations of the Armor Community it was decided to completely shut down our Lima, Ohio plant, which has been building our tanks since before WWII. The reason they didnt want it shut down was because the skill in manufacturing tanks is perishable and once you shut it down, when the need arises for tanks or tank components they would have to train employees all over again. The decision was made to close it anyway. April of last year, Egypt asked that the Egyption M1 component assembly be done at Lima, in May it was agreed to by the US. We couldnt keep our own Tank Plant opened for us, but we did for the Egyptians. Although that does help us in it keeps our skilled tank manufacturers on the job, just not building tanks for us.

 

Just curious, did these guys get the high speed gunnery equipment to allow them to accurately shoot while moving?  I don't have a background in armor, but I remember hearing that the M1s we were giving the IA didn't have the same capability as ours.  Would make sense in case we ever have to fight them again.

[Guest TankerHC]

Just curious, did these guys get the high speed gunnery equipment to allow them to accurately shoot while moving?  I don't have a background in armor, but I remember hearing that the M1s we were giving the IA didn't have the same capability as ours.  Would make sense in case we ever have to fight them again.

 

Same fire control capabilities. Only difference in the tanks is no Chobham and they use standard Diesel engines rather than the AGT 1500. My understanding is they also asked for the SEP package but arent getting it and the TMEP and they arent getting that either. Has the same Stab but some of the Kuwaiti M1's were initially outfitted with a TTS rather than a TIS, but are all now using TIS. The Egyptions had the TIS from the get go. The decision to use a standard Deisel rather than the AGT was to keep costs down and the availability of JP fuels, had nothing to do with tech transfer. If the Saudi's would have taken the Leo 2, they would have got the standard Diesel (MB 873), because the Germans dont use a Multi Fuel Turbine, but they would have still get an exceelent fire control package and the exact same gun thats on the M1, because the 120 on the M1 is the same gun on the Leo2A4 (The M256 and the L44), they would have got the L44 not the L55 from the Germans.

Edited August 15, 2013 by TankerHC

[TMF]

Same fire control capabilities. Only difference in the tanks is no Chobham and they use standard Diesel engines rather than the AGT 1500. My understanding is they also asked for the SEP package but arent getting it and the TMEP and they arent getting that either.

 

Well that ain't no good.  I assume that means they have thermal sights and such as well.  There is no reason any country we provide aid to needs that capability, especially when it will end up in the wrong hands some day.  Hell, isn't the big reason their tanks got smashed during the Gulf War because the vastly targeting capability?

[Guest TankerHC]

BTW, referring to the OP, those are Morsi's people. Islamic Extremists. I have no pity for them. They were warned. Egypt isnt the US, so their rights are "Slightly different".

Edited August 15, 2013 by TankerHC

[Guest TankerHC]

Well that ain't no good.  I assume that means they have thermal sights and such as well.  There is no reason any country we provide aid to needs that capability, especially when it will end up in the wrong hands some day.  Hell, isn't the big reason their tanks got smashed during the Gulf War because the vastly targeting capability?

 

If we dont sell it to them, someone else will. Might as well keep our tank plant open.

 

"There is no reason any country we provide aid to needs that capability, especially when it will end up in the wrong hands some day.  Hell, isn't the big reason their tanks got smashed during the Gulf War because the vastly targeting capability?"

 

Advanced Fire Control System vs POS Fire Control system Range "1500 meters (If your lucky on an M-84) vs hitting targets out to 4000 meters. Advanced Stab vs NO STAB (The M-84 cannot shoot on the move AT ALL, when its moving the main gun is in travel lock over the right front fender). Pig iron vs Chobham Armor, and the fact that US Army and Marine Corp Tankers are just plain old Super Tankers regardless of what tank they are on.

 

Simple example of their tech vs ours (Back then). on the M1 we have a stuck round extractor. Round stuck in the breech, grab the extractor and pull it out. When I got oin the TC compartment of the M84, to the right of the TC there is a mount, with a wooden stick. Really, a fricken wooden stick, mounted in every tank, if a round gets stuck in the breech, the TC takes this wooden stick and has to reach down and try to push the round in, it doesnt work, I had to try it. The reason they cant do anything else is because there is no loader, they used an autoloader. So that indispensable 4th man wasn't there.

Edited August 15, 2013 by TankerHC

[TMF]

BTW, referring to the OP, those are Morsi's people. Islamic Extremists. I have no pity for them. They were warned. Egypt isnt the US, so their rights are "Slightly different".

 

Yeah, I don't care.  They can line 'em up and run 'em over with bulldozers.  They're pulling the typical "victim" card about the army coming in and shwacking them and their kids they brought to stay in their opposition tent village.  Who brings children to a violent street war?  These monkeys are putting their kids in harms way in hopes that they'll get killed so they can use that against the military.  If ever there was a group of people who needed to be violently crushed without mercy it would be these Muslim Brotherhood extremists.

[Guest TankerHC]

Dont forget the vid that another member posted. Everything isnt always what it seems, especially in Egypt these day's. After seeing that video every time i see something similar on the news now, all i think is that video.

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2

[TNcitizen22]

we should let the whole place fall.  

 

This. 

[Guest TresOsos]

If we dont sell it to them, someone else will. Might as well keep our tank plant open.

 

 

 

 

And that my friends is the logic that has created a lot of our troubles these days.

Not just foriegn policy wise but domestically as well.

[Guest TankerHC]

And that my friends is the logic that has created a lot of our troubles these days.

Not just foriegn policy wise but domestically as well.

 

Really, how has that logic created these problems exactly? Why dont you expand on your comment. Since you havent, I can only guess you believe without us selling weapons and keeping our enemies or potential adverseries in our back pockets, that everything would be wonderful and rosy since without us selling them, they wouldnt be able to get them.

 

Or perhaps you feel it would be better if they were in the back pockets of the Chinese and Russians? Those friends of ours who are doing everything possible to help destroy this country financially and with China who's Defense Chief made it clear that they are building up considering the possibility that they will eventually have to fight us?

 

Please explain. I want to hear all about how wonderful this world would be if we would only not sell our arms to other countires because they wouldnt be able to get them without us.

 

There is only one way to get anything accomplished with these idiots. At the end of a gun barrel. And if that means arming them to the teeth so they can do each other in, so be it.

 

By YOUR logic I suppose it was also a bad idea for the French to help arm the Continental Army, the Prussians to train our NCO Corp and the French to provide Naval support, since we had no legal authority to overthrow the authority of the Crown in the Colonies in the first place.

Edited August 15, 2013 by TankerHC

[Dustbuster]

Thanks for the brief tanker good stuff. I remember seeing a Saudi symbol on the floor of. Mcd hangar in St. Louis @ 20 yes ago , I get it.

[Trekbike]

I'm not tank savvy so this might be a stupid question. Is that long green colored piece attached to the right side of the turret a towing strap?

[TMF]

Dont forget the vid that another member posted. Everything isnt always what it seems, especially in Egypt these day's. After seeing that video every time i see something similar on the news now, all i think is that video.

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2

 

Yeah, this one is pretty legit though.  There is quite a bit of video out there.  If you dig around there is some pretty morbid photo journalism of the event that isn't appropriate to post.  Apparently there were several hundred killed during the crack down; a good many of them in this giant occupy village they hit.  I guess the fire is a result of all the tear gas they fired in.  Lotta folks got burned up.

 

That propaganda video that was filmed the other day probably didn't even take place anywhere near Cairo.  Wouldn't change my opnion if any of it was real or fake anyhow.  The Muslim Brotherhood needs to have its nuts crushed and shown no mercy. 

[Oh Shoot]

we should let the whole place fall.  

 

Little problem regarding the Suez Canal there and the traditional stabilizing buffer for Israel, among other US interests.

 

- OS

[TMF]

Little problem regarding the Suez Canal there and the traditional stabilizing buffer for Israel, among other US interests.

 

- OS

 

I know this may not even be a relevant issue for an agnostic, but I do believe there is much pressure from religious groups on our elected leaders to be outspoken for the rights and safety of the Christian population in Egypt.  There are more Christians in Egypt than there are in Tennessee, Georgia and Alabama put together... maybe more.

[Oh Shoot]

I know this may not even be a relevant issue for an agnostic, but I do believe there is much pressure from religious groups on our elected leaders to be outspoken for the rights and safety of the Christian population in Egypt.  There are more Christians in Egypt than there are in Tennessee, Georgia and Alabama put together... maybe more.

 

Well, since we are a majority Christian nation, at least on paper, I'd say that falls in the "other US interests", sure.

 

But mainly, Egypt has been a strategically important region for at least 3000 years, and that hasn't changed. In our modern times, and certainly since Israel formed in '48,  its relative non-alignment with anyone except partially to the US is one reason the Middle East has been as stable as it has been.

 

Given the land mass, population, and location,  if it enters a Syrian or Libyan type civil war, all bets are off, both during and after the dust settles.

 

- OS

Edited August 15, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[vontar]

Tanker, one of my uncles worked at and retired from the Lima plant. 

[AU_88]

Guess my wife and I can cross Cairo off our vacation plans for this year.

In all seriousness you should definitely go if you ever get the chance...

[Guest nra37922]

In all seriousness you should definitely go if you ever get the chance...

If, as the old saying goes that, France would be great without the French I guess we can now say that Cairo would be great without the crazies.

[jcj]

Guess my wife and I can cross Cairo off our vacation plans for this year.

In all seriousness you should definitely go if you ever get the chance...

It's on my list of places I'd love to visit, but obviously not anytime soon.

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