What do you all think? TN Judge right or wrong?

[Jonnin]

I thought I'd give an update here. Ruling was overturned and baby keeps his name.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tenn-judge-parents-baby-messiah-20292026

 

Good! 

[Guest The Itis]

Christian privilege reaches deep. You've got a ton of people in positions of power who are guided by their religious beliefs, they just typically say they aren't.

This fool of a judge didn't even try to hide it. But, I doubt she will lose her job, because it'll probably be seen as a victory for the religious nuts and she will be mentioned in prayers (the good kind) aplenty.

[Spiffy]

The judge is a bleeping idiot, and should be tossed off the bench. A disgusting abuse of power she doesn't have. This will be reversed.

 

Which is the whole reason we have activist judges on the bench. They know it will be reversed but they "did something to change things".

[bersaguy]

I don't know about anyone else but I figured out early in the original read that it was a fight over custody and  a "who's your daddy" issue when it was discussed about the child's last name. Why the judge even got involved in the child's first name is beyond my comprehension but it did. Now with that said  I am glad to hear a judge got it corrected. Not it will be up to the "time will tell situation" as to how long it will take for this child to either hate his parents for his name or how long it takes his name to drive him to suicide over all the bullying he is going to receive from it. I hope he grows up tough cause he is going to need it..........jmho 

[JAB]

Somehow we went from a kid being able to make up their own mind that their name (lets call the example child "wasted-sperm jones")  is offensive to mob rule and anarchy and dictatorships. 

 

All I said was that Wasted-Sperm (not his teacher, not his cousin, not his buddy, not some random idiot off the street) himself, finding his name to be offensive and to generally degrade his self image and quality of life,  should be able to do something about BEFORE he reaches the insane high age of 18.  18 years is way, way too long to live out one's life being referred to as Wasted-Sperm.   I think 6-8 years is more than long enough for the kid to decide that something needs to be done, and he should have a way to do by that age IF and ONLY IF he wants to and IF and ONLY IF the majority of randomly selected people on a jury agree that his name is beyond the pale. 

 

If that is too much common sense to ask for, well, we knew america was doomed years ago.

 

If this infringes on the freedoms of the parents, I do not see it.  At some point, the kid has some rights too.  And those rights come before age 18 IMHO.   If you really read what I said, all I am really saying is to allow the reduction of the age at which a name can be changed under specific circumstances (the individual with the name is desperate to get it changed, and a majority of randomly selected adults agree with the kid).   I am all about the libertarian stuff until it affects other people, but here, the right of the parents to name the kid has to stop when it reaches a point that the kid is now a subject of ridicule and torment and so on to the point that its quality of life is affected.   If the parents want to rename themselves to whatever awful name, I am all for it.

 

 

What I did not agree with is renaming the child on behalf of anyone else (only the child can register the complaint).  I did not allow for the judge to provide a new name (the child or parents must produce this).  It is not so much telling parents what they CAN name the child as telling them what they CANNOT name the child and forcing an alternative to be suggested.   Unfortunately, these sorts of things really need to be --- because without them, it won't be long before we DO see names like G**D*** M***FK**  Smith or worse.  

 

The thing is, these parents didn't really name their child anything that is inherently offensive or obviously intended to offend.  The parents liked the name 'Messiah' and they went with it.  Big deal - I would argue that such a name is really only potentially offensive to people of certain religious beliefs and that the Judge was basing her claim that the name was offensive and order that it be changed on those religious beliefs - which is and should be a no go.

 

Names like 'Wasted Sperm Jones' or the...um..rather colorful name that you posited at the end of your post could be argued as 'intentionally offensive' without bringing religion into the mix.  In fact, unlike 'Messiah', I could see an argument being made that those names amount to mental abuse. More importantly, such names would likely indicate that there are other factors at play (abuse, neglect) which could justify terminating parental rights, anyhow.

[leroy]

Ignorant people (...the parents here...) do ignorant things..... They ignorantly want to name their progeny "messiah"... I aint sure why ya would have to ask the judiciary about that; but it seems that they did...

 

Magistrate hears their ignorant request and makes mistake (...possibly because he/or she wuz to intelligent to believe the question at hand....).... After thinkin a bit, comes to the wrong decision...

 

Ignorant parents appeal and demand their right to be ignorant...

 

Appeal judge opines that it's america and ya have the right to do ignorant things, including doing them to your kid.... He evidently thought: "... I don't care what ya name him; messiah is ok with me...".   The judge knows (...as you and i know....) that the name is a name; nothin more...

 

The judge, you, i, and most other folks that see beyond the end of their nose know that namin this kid "messiah" no more makes him a "Messiah" than callin Obama "the messiah" makes him one....

 

It does, however, demonstrate in grand fashion how breathtakingly ignorant and foolish the parents are here...  Maybe the baby messiah will be able to live up to his great name in the best sense of its use... I hope so; it appears that both the parents, the magistrate, and obama have failed to....

 

"messiah" leroy

opiner on

the the baby namin folly...

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Ignorant people (...the parents here...) do ignorant things..... They ignorantly want to name their progeny "messiah"... I aint sure why ya would have to ask the judiciary about that; but it seems that they did...

 

Magistrate hears their ignorant request and makes mistake (...possibly because he/or she wuz to intelligent to believe the question at hand....).... After thinkin a bit, comes to the wrong decision...

 

Ignorant parents appeal and demand their right to be ignorant...

 

Appeal judge opines that it's america and ya have the right to do ignorant things, including doing them to your kid.... He evidently thought: "... I don't care what ya name him; messiah is ok with me...".   The judge knows (...as you and i know....) that the name is a name; nothin more...

Well they didn't ask for a ruling on the first name "Messiah", the request was made about the last name. Whether it would be the mother or fathers. The judge then CHOSE to overstep and change the child's first name...which both parents had already agreed to.

Appeals judge has it right. You can name your kid just about anything you want to.

My question is what about stupid white names? Abercrombie, Poindexter, Xavier, Mitzi, Richard (Dick), Sissy, Star, Jethro, Woody, Buffy, Bubba...lets not forget hyphenated names like Billy-Bob and Billy-Joe.

I think it who you are growing up around whether or not you are made fun of for your name. Given this is a black (or whatever the current PC term is) teen mom in Newport, I suspect he will be around mostly others of the same race and economic demographic and therefor the kids will have other names to pick on such as Orangejello (supposedly pronounced - or on ja low) and Bonquiqui.

I mean come on, mean to the kid? How many of you didn't have your name made fun of at some point? My name is Jeremy, about as normal as any other and I was called everything from Jerm(y) to Jermany (Germ(y) to Germany). I mean making fun of someone's name lasts all of what? 2nd grade? lol If it isn't overtly offensive then screw it.

[tnguy]

I don't know about anyone else but I figured out early in the original read that it was a fight over custody and  a "who's your daddy" issue when it was discussed about the child's last name. Why the judge even got involved in the child's first name is beyond my comprehension but it did. Now with that said  I am glad to hear a judge got it corrected. Not it will be up to the "time will tell situation" as to how long it will take for this child to either hate his parents for his name or how long it takes his name to drive him to suicide over all the bullying he is going to receive from it. I hope he grows up tough cause he is going to need it..........jmho 

 

Open your ears and listen to some of the names around you. This isn't really a bullying name unless the kid is prone to attract bullies in any case.

 

Edit: I think Germy covered it pretty well.

Edited September 19, 2013 by tnguy

[leroy]

I didnt pick up on the fact that it wuz originally a 'last name" thing....  I should have known better...

 

Here's the "corrected version"...

 

Multiple ignorant people (...the "real sperm donors", and other "possible sperm donors", it would appear...) do ignorant things, it appears from conception to naming..... Evidently the mother genuinely doesn't know (...or possibly wont tell....) who the father is, and is "stuck" on what the poor baby's last name should be...

 

Magistrate hears this sad and ignorant request and makes mistake (...possibly because he/or she wuz to intelligent to believe the question at hand....).... After thinkin a bit, comes to the wrong decision...

 

Ignorant parent appeals and demands her right to be ignorant...

 

Appeal judge opines that it's america and ya have the right to do ignorant things, including doing them to your kid.... He evidently thought: "... I don't care what ya name him; messiah is ok with me...".   The judge knows (...as you and i know....) that the name is a name; nothin more...

 

The judge, you, i, and most other folks that see beyond the end of their nose know that namin this kid "messiah" no more makes him a "Messiah" than callin Obama "the messiah" makes him one....

 

It does, however, demonstrate in grand fashion how breathtakingly ignorant and foolish the parents are here...  Maybe the baby messiah will be able to live up to his great name in the best sense of its use... I hope so; it appears that both the parents, the magistrate, and obama have failed to....

 

"messiah" leroy

opiner on

the the baby namin folly...(...corrections in italics...)

[Guest Keal G Seo]

There is no dispute over who the father is, he is in the picture and fighting in court over all of this. He however didn't want to share the spotlight. The argument was over whether she would name the child after her own last name since they are separated.

I don't get why people have to be ignorant to name their kid something different. Everyone has their own idea of what a name is but just because someone's varies from your own doesn't make them ignorant. I mean take a look at the names I previously posted, strange names but I wouldn't say their parents were ignorant...except maybe Orangejello. lol

[tnguy]

[Dustbuster]

Seeing this probably isnt in juvenile court,why doesnt someone closeby go to the clerks office,get a copy of the case scan it and post it..no further speculation needed.Even better,find out if theres a recording of the proceedings or transcripts so we can see the bottom of this.

[leroy]

There is no dispute over who the father is, he is in the picture and fighting in court over all of this. He however didn't want to share the spotlight. The argument was over whether she would name the child after her own last name since they are separated.

I don't get why people have to be ignorant to name their kid something different. Everyone has their own idea of what a name is but just because someone's varies from your own doesn't make them ignorant. I mean take a look at the names I previously posted, strange names but I wouldn't say their parents were ignorant...except maybe Orangejello. lol

 

That's the difference between me and you, bro....  They, indeed, have the right to name their child anything they want to name him... I have the right to opine that it's ignorant; and even chuckle a bit about it... Your failure to either understand or even agree seems to be predicated on disagreement with my opinions or actions... So what....We've had these intractable discussions before... The fact is that we live in amerika and we can have differing opinions....They can be expressed in the public forum..... We can even have 'em here (...with the forum moderator's permission, of course...)... I would just agree to disagree if i wuz you....

 

leroy

[wjh2657]

My opinion. The Judge was wrong. Couple in court to decide what baby's last name would be, then the judge changes his first name. Note that this name is the 4th fastest growing name in popularity according to the SSA. Last year I saw a couple named their kid Satan and the Judge ordered it changed at the request of the grandparents.. That I can agree with simply because that kid would go through hell (Literally, no pun intended) through life. The Messiahs name wasnt Messiah, and Jesus is one of the most popular names among Hispanics. Yea, its pronounced "he'sus" but if JEE'sus" were pronounced by a Hispanic is is pronounced "he'sus".

 

The Judge put her personal religious beliefs above that of the parents wishes. JMHO

 

http://news.yahoo.com/tenn-judge-changes-infants-name-messiah-215423538.html

 

His name was not Jesus. It was Joshua (Yeshua in Hebrew) and He was never called Jesus during his lifetime. It became Jesus when the gospels were written in Greek and that probably due to Paul's influence as he preached in Greek. The Greek pronunciation of Joshua (Yeshua) is Jesus. When translated into English we carried over the Greek spelling and pronunciation. 

 

To the original point of the post.: parents or maybe grandparents, should name their children, not government officials. Totally out of line.

Edited September 20, 2013 by wjh2657

[Guest tommy62]

What guns?

[TMF]

My question is what about stupid white names? Abercrombie, Poindexter, Xavier, Mitzi, Richard (Dick), Sissy, Star, Jethro, Woody, Buffy, Bubba...lets not forget hyphenated names like Billy-Bob and Billy-Joe.

.

Huh? Poindexter is a last name which dates back hundreds of years, if not more. As for the majority of the other names, they have been common names for centuries as well. I haven't met any hyphenated names like you mentioned; what your suggesting with "Billy-Bob" are folks who likely go by their first and middle name. This is fairly common in the south, so I don't get how that's "stupid". And Bubba? You're gonna be hard pressed to find people with that on their birth certificate. It's a nickname. My daughter calls my son Bubba.

Not quite sure what you're arguing here, but you're showing that you don't know much about the point you're trying to make.

[TMF]

Not it will be up to the "time will tell situation" as to how long it will take for this child to either hate his parents for his name or how long it takes his name to drive him to suicide over all the bullying he is going to receive from it. I hope he grows up tough cause he is going to need it..........jmho

I don't think that is a concern at all. There are plenty of other kids with wacky names that "Messiah" is pretty innocuous.

[tnguy]

Huh? Poindexter is a last name which dates back hundreds of years, if not more. As for the majority of the other names, they have been common names for centuries as well. I haven't met any hyphenated names like you mentioned; what your suggesting with "Billy-Bob" are folks who likely go by their first and middle name. This is fairly common in the south, so I don't get how that's "stupid". And Bubba? You're gonna be hard pressed to find people with that on their birth certificate. It's a nickname. My daughter calls my son Bubba.

Not quite sure what you're arguing here, but you're showing that you don't know much about the point you're trying to make.

 

 

I think his point is that "stupid names" is in the eye of the beholder. It's just a series of sounds and culture and country can affect how it appears to your ears.

 

Indeed, many names in common use have a similar origin to "Messiah" (I was particularly surprised by the name "Jesus" not being much (at all) exposed to Mexicans growing up) so while it's not a name I'd pick for my child, it's not all that out there really.

[TMF]

I think his point is that "stupid names" is in the eye of the beholder. It's just a series of sounds and culture and country can affect how it appears to your ears.

Indeed, many names in common use have a similar origin to "Messiah" (I was particularly surprised by the name "Jesus" not being much (at all) exposed to Mexicans growing up) so while it's not a name I'd pick for my child, it's not all that out there really.

Okay, perhaps I misunderstood. I agree that it is in the eye of the beholder for the most part. Especially the name "Jesus" since it is a common name in more than just Latin America. We exist inside the bubbles we live in, so I get that names can sound especially odd if you haven't been exposed to other cultures with very different naming conventions.

However, I'll agree that we have some awful people who name their kids like they name their dogs, giving them stupid names which are sometimes offensive. I don't know if "Messiah" would even fit into that category, as I've heard some that are so intentionally ridiculous that the parents are obvious turds. I guess intent is really everything when we're discussing names.

[McGarrett]

It is no wonder that the legal system is so back logged since they are spending valuable time on cases like this. I am just glad that I was not born into some mess like this, the poor kids..

 

I am no legal expert but I don't think judges can rule on common sense violations. Is there a law against stupidity? I am not sure but if so I see a lot of repeat offenders every day. Better get them in front of a judge quick so the judicial system can straighten them out! Good luck with that.

 

I think this is a losing situation on both sides, I don't think the judicial system should be involved in naming children but I also think that the parents should be able to agree on a name for their child without such antics. I think it is a two way street.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

That's the difference between me and you, bro....  They, indeed, have the right to name their child anything they want to name him... I have the right to opine that it's ignorant; and even chuckle a bit about it... Your failure to either understand or even agree seems to be predicated on disagreement with my opinions or actions... So what....We've had these intractable discussions before... The fact is that we live in amerika and we can have differing opinions....They can be expressed in the public forum..... We can even have 'em here (...with the forum moderator's permission, of course...)... I would just agree to disagree if i wuz you....

 

leroy

I am asking, what about giving them this name makes them ignorant? "Ignorant" suggests some type of lack of knowledge. I am sure they are well aware of the christian population especially after the judge said that is why she ordered the change.

 

Huh? Poindexter is a last name which dates back hundreds of years, if not more. As for the majority of the other names, they have been common names for centuries as well. I haven't met any hyphenated names like you mentioned; what your suggesting with "Billy-Bob" are folks who likely go by their first and middle name. This is fairly common in the south, so I don't get how that's "stupid". And Bubba? You're gonna be hard pressed to find people with that on their birth certificate. It's a nickname. My daughter calls my son Bubba.

Not quite sure what you're arguing here, but you're showing that you don't know much about the point you're trying to make.

Actually, if people were just proud of the history of the name it would be spelled Poingdester. We all know Poindexter is the insulting name you call an extremely smart kid. I have known 1 "Bubba" as a birth name, granted most are nicknames but you could make the same argument for how Dick is to Richard. Hell me and my brother call one another bubba. As for hyphenated names, there are plenty to be found, how many do you know of with names like XXXX-Anne? I could name a few. Just because it is common doesn't make it ok. Bottom line is name your kid whatever you want, it doesn't make you ignorant or a bad parent. As long as we are talking about the name "Messiah" how about the name "Jesus" or for that matter Mathew, Mark, Luke, Mary etc etc etc? What about parents who name their child "Christian"? How do they know their child will grow into a christian and not an atheist or adopt some other religion?

Back to my original point, a name is just a name. Everyone has their name made fun of at some point. Some names are easier and some names have to have be thought about for a minute. This only happens for about 1/2 a school year when children are young, as they get older it becomes more about how much money their families have or what they look like. I mean come on, when was the last time someone told you their name and you made fun of them? lol If the kid doesn't like it they can petition through family court to have it changed or wait until they are 18 and have it changed themselves.