Cali DA trying to make a disabled vet a felon over accidetal fire - they need help with donations for legal fees!

[JohnC]

California DA is trying to make a disabled vet a felon over accidetal fire - they need help with donations for legal fees!

Legal fund for Mario and Char http://www.gofundme.com/3td4yw

I don't know them personally, but they are friends of my wife's best friend.

Spread this around if you can as well.

Thanks! :up:

[Sam1]

What are the specific charges?  It sounds a bit fishy that first the tannerite started a fire and second they received multiple felony charges for using a legal product on private land.

 

I guess it is possible, but most of CA is under a red flag warning and that would fall under federal jurisdiction if they used tannerite then... but it still doesn't make sense without knowing both sides of the story.  CA themselves could've also banned binary target use during a burn ban/red flag warning and that could be the reason, but the story on that website just seems like it's leaving a lot of information out.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Sam1

[JohnC]

What are the specific charges?  It sounds a bit fishy that first the tannerite started a fire and second they received multiple felony charges for using a legal product on private land.

I don't know any details and don't know them personally like I said above. I just found out about it myself like 5 minutes ago.

But if you have any questions before you make a donation, I can get you their contact info so you can speak with them yourself.

Just let me know. :up:

[JohnC]

Looks like they have a facebook: https://www.facebook.com/charlamain

[JohnC]

This is interesting.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/06/fbi-warns-exploding-targets-could-be-used-for-ieds/

[c.a.willard]

It looks like under the penal codes for California even possessing unmixed tannerite without a permit can be construed as a felony, much less actually blowing it up.  I am really sorry for this guy and hope the court takes it easy on him (not likely).  If i were them right now id be doing my best to plead this down cause by the letter of the law he is guilty of a felony.

[JohnC]

It looks like under the penal codes for California even possessing unmixed tannerite without a permit can be construed as a felony, much less actually blowing it up.  I am really sorry for this guy and hope the court takes it easy on him (not likely).  If i were them right now id be doing my best to plead this down cause by the letter of the law he is guilty of a felony.

 

Did you look and see if it is a statewide ban or just some areas? I think they were in Cabazon and the prosecuting DA is in Riverside CA.

 

 

I sent them a few questions on facebook and this is what she said about it:

 

Me:

 

Question, did the tannerite start the fire? Is it legal where you used it? Can you give me the exact reasons the DA gave for upgrading the charges to the 3 felonies? Thanks.

 

 

Her:

 

Yes we were shooting the tannerite and it started the fire, yes it is legal to buy here where we live. It is still being sold at the gun stores, bass pro carries similar binary targets not tannerite specifically. We believe the DA wants to make an example out of us an use us to make these products illegal. We originally got a misdemeanor fire citation and was never arrested.

 

Edited August 9, 2013 by JohnC

[c.a.willard]

Since it's binary when you buy it it is not an explosive and therefore legal to sell.  When you mix it it becomes an explosive and therefore a felony in in the PRK even before you make it blow up.  

 

You can use tannerite if you file for the appropriate permit.  I believe that application process is done through the local fire department (may be wrong on issuing authority)

 

The problem is they made an explosive (mixed the tannerite) and exploded it without the permit.  Like i said before it sucks but by the letter of the law there guilty of a felony. 

 

 

Seems to me if i lived in the PRK i would be extremely careful about researching stuff like that before doing it.  But i can also understand there view that they bought it in a store and made the assumption that it was legal to use.

[Sam1]

 

 

Seems to me if i lived in the PRK i would be extremely careful about researching stuff like that before doing it.  But i can also understand there view that they bought it in a store and made the assumption that it was legal to use.

 

That is my assumption too, they broke the law by not reading up on it and are leaving that part of the plea for $ out of the story.

[JohnC]

All I can say is this.

Help them if you want. If not, then don't.

I'm not taking sides.

[Luke E.]

Since it's binary when you buy it it is not an explosive and therefore legal to sell.  When you mix it it becomes an explosive and therefore a felony in in the PRK even before you make it blow up.  

 

You can use tannerite if you file for the appropriate permit.  I believe that application process is done through the local fire department (may be wrong on issuing authority)

 

The problem is they made an explosive (mixed the tannerite) and exploded it without the permit.  Like i said before it sucks but by the letter of the law there guilty of a felony. 

 

 

Seems to me if i lived in the PRK i would be extremely careful about researching stuff like that before doing it.  But i can also understand there view that they bought it in a store and made the assumption that it was legal to use.

 

 

That is my assumption too, they broke the law by not reading up on it and are leaving that part of the plea for $ out of the story.

I understand the "letter of the law" thing but how many folks in TN do you think ever thought to check up on this before they bought it at the gun show and ran home to blast it? If it is marketed the same way there as it is here then they scream "perfectly legal", the stuff I bought had those two very words on it. If they are guilty then the manufacturer and Bass pro (or where ever they bought it) should be on the hook as well for willfully misleading folks. I think with the right attorney this could be beat or at least plead down to a misdemeanor. To ruin someones chances of work, owning firearms and voting with felony charges when there was absolutely no knowledge or wrongful intent is bogus in my book and I would say in the minds of the majority, only problem is that they are in Cali and have very low odds of a panel of jurors with a shred of common sense being selected.

[JohnC]

I understand the "letter of the law" thing but how many folks in TN do you think ever thought to check up on this before they bought it at the gun show and ran home to blast it? If it is marketed the same way there as it is here then they scream "perfectly legal", the stuff I bought had those two very words on it. If they are guilty then the manufacturer and Bass pro (or where ever they bought it) should be on the hook as well for willfully misleading folks. I think with the right attorney this could be beat or at least plead down to a misdemeanor. To ruin someones chances of work, owning firearms and voting with felony charges when there was absolutely no knowledge or wrongful intent is bogus in my book and I would say in the minds of the majority, only problem is that they are in Cali and have very low odds of a panel of jurors with a shred of common sense being selected.

I had similar thought myself about the sale of the product. :up:

[c.a.willard]

I hope it didn't come off the wrong way.  I think the way the law is is complete BS.  I also think the stores could at least put a warning by the binary compounds to help prevent these incidents.

 

Seeing as there was no criminal intent and no public damage done i think there should be room to plead it down.  Unfortunately the criminal justice system in California doesn't try to make any sense. 

 

Doing some more reading it appears that there's only one real charge that he needs to get rid of the 18710 offense is still a misdemeanor in itself.  It is the 18720 charge that's causing it to all be charged as felony offenses.

18720.  Every person who possesses any substance, material, or any
combination of substances or materials, with the intent to make any
destructive device or any explosive without first obtaining a valid
permit to make that destructive device or explosive, is guilty of a
felony, and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h)
of Section 1170 for two, three, or four years.

I hope for this guys sake and his family the DA uses their discretionary power and pleads it down to simple possession. 

[luvmyberetta]

I understand the "letter of the law" thing but how many folks in TN do you think ever thought to check up on this before they bought it at the gun show and ran home to blast it? If it is marketed the same way there as it is here then they scream "perfectly legal", the stuff I bought had those two very words on it. If they are guilty then the manufacturer and Bass pro (or where ever they bought it) should be on the hook as well for willfully misleading folks. I think with the right attorney this could be beat or at least plead down to a misdemeanor. To ruin someones chances of work, owning firearms and voting with felony charges when there was absolutely no knowledge or wrongful intent is bogus in my book and I would say in the minds of the majority, only problem is that they are in Cali and have very low odds of a panel of jurors with a shred of common sense being selected.

 

I understand what you're saying, but unfortunately ignorance of the law doesn't mean exemption from it. Cali's one messed up place to live with some vague or insane laws on their books.

[JayC]

Willard, I see one issue with the logic here, per the ATF these binary mixtures are not 'explosives' under federal law - even when mixed.  It falls under the same category as gun powder which is also not an explosive.  Technically Tannerite is an oxidizer and fuel and doesn't 'explode'...  it just burns really fast...

 

So it is a stretch under CA law to charge these folks...  It's like saying that reloading bullets with smokeless powder is making a destructive device, or loading a black powder rifle is making an explosive.

 

Tannerite is not dynamite, C4, det cord or even ANFO...  And it's a stretch to make it fit under this law.

 

I hope it didn't come off the wrong way.  I think the way the law is is complete BS.  I also think the stores could at least put a warning by the binary compounds to help prevent these incidents.

 

Seeing as there was no criminal intent and no public damage done i think there should be room to plead it down.  Unfortunately the criminal justice system in California doesn't try to make any sense. 

 

Doing some more reading it appears that there's only one real charge that he needs to get rid of the 18710 offense is still a misdemeanor in itself.  It is the 18720 charge that's causing it to all be charged as felony offenses.

18720.  Every person who possesses any substance, material, or any
combination of substances or materials, with the intent to make any
destructive device or any explosive without first obtaining a valid
permit to make that destructive device or explosive, is guilty of a
felony, and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h)
of Section 1170 for two, three, or four years.

I hope for this guys sake and his family the DA uses their discretionary power and pleads it down to simple possession. 

[c.a.willard]

JayC it is not a stretch at all.  The state of California defines explosives differently than the federal government.



California Health and safety code 1200

For the purposes of this part, "explosives" means any
substance, or combination of substances, the primary or common
purpose of which is detonation or rapid combustion, and which is
capable of a relatively instantaneous or rapid release of gas and
heat, or any substance, the primary purpose of which, when combined
with others, is to form a substance capable of a relatively
instantaneous or rapid release of gas and heat. "Explosives"
includes, but is not limited to, any explosives as defined in Section
841 of Title 18 of the United States Code and published pursuant to
Section 555.23 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, and
any of the following:

[Luke E.]

I understand what you're saying, but unfortunately ignorance of the law doesn't mean exemption from it. Cali's one messed up place to live with some vague or insane laws on their books.

Ignorance and being "mislead" are different things. I'm just saying, if they are on the hook then so should be the retailer and manufacturer. They manufacture and sell products packaged together with the instructions on how you are to mix it to make the target explode which are its intended and common use.
Maybe I'm just thinking through emotion (doesn't happen a lot) because I hate to see someone made a criminal just because California wants to make a point. It's BS! But since I am not being logical ill stand back and just read lol

[whitewolf001]

Agreed Luke, that would be like a firearms manufacturer producing a "cali legal" weapon but as soon as you do one thing to it, like put ammo in it, it suddenly becomes illegal.

[Luke E.]

Agreed Luke, that would be like a firearms manufacturer producing a "cali legal" weapon but as soon as you do one thing to it, like put ammo in it, it suddenly becomes illegal.

Yep and selling it to you and knowing that is the only reason to purchase it.. No one is going to go buy a gun or exploding target just to carry it to the house and stick it on a shelf to forget about... I mean there are absolutely zero other uses for it.. If you buy fertilizer that's marketed towards a gardener then turn around and make a bomb with it then shame on you but it you buy the fertilizer down the street and go fertilize your yard with it only to find out that its legal to sell but you can't mix water with it... uh oh it just rained and your in jail... I know that was a little far fetched but it's the same reasoning.. If you can't use a product for it's intended purpose without going to prison for it then it should not be allowed to be sold there .. That's common sense but there again they are in California.. Like I said before it is very sad to see someone's future potentially ruined because of bureaucratic BS  

[JayC]

I understand that is what CA law says... but using that definition, a black powder rifle is an explosive device.

 

JayC it is not a stretch at all.  The state of California defines explosives differently than the federal government.



California Health and safety code 1200

For the purposes of this part, "explosives" means any
substance, or combination of substances, the primary or common
purpose of which is detonation or rapid combustion, and which is
capable of a relatively instantaneous or rapid release of gas and
heat, or any substance, the primary purpose of which, when combined
with others, is to form a substance capable of a relatively
instantaneous or rapid release of gas and heat. "Explosives"
includes, but is not limited to, any explosives as defined in Section
841 of Title 18 of the United States Code and published pursuant to
Section 555.23 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, and
any of the following:

[c.a.willard]

agreed it's pretty stupid.  There are some exceptions written in, like you can possess up to 5lbs of black powder and up to 20lbs of smokeless powder.  Anything over that is a felony.

 

I think the worst part is that although there is an individual responsibility to research laws yourself, the stores that sell it should also be informing their clients.  I understand they do not have a legal obligation to do so, but how hard would it be to place a warning placard next to the product.

[JohnC]

Looks like he got a Felony.... http://www.gofundme.com/3td4yw?utm_campaign=Emails&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email

 

 

First of all I want to thank all of you for donating. This has been a really rough road. Unfortunately due to the high chances of us being convicted of at least one charge (If convicted of at least one charge we would have served 2-4 years in jail and Mario would have become a felon for life) we have taken our lawyers advice and accepted the plea deal. This was an extremely hard choice considering we did nothing wrong. That is the way this state operates. They do not care who we are or what we have done for this country. They only have their own agenda. We will be paying 37,000$ for the cost of the fire and will be applying all of your donations to that. Mario has also lost his rights for 3 years. He is now a "FELON" according to Riverside County DA. He does not have to serve jail time, we opted for an ankle bracelet. As soon as his time on the ankle bracelet is over we will be moving to Florida. I am beyond sad and disgusted over this. Thank you all for your love and support.

 

That's a pretty raw deal....

[Luke E.]

Looks like he got a Felony.... http://www.gofundme.com/3td4yw?utm_campaign=Emails&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email


That's a pretty raw deal....

" We" gave him guns to defend us from those that wish to harm us and now Cali has put him in a category with kidnappers, child molesters and murders so that now he cannot buy his own gun to defend himself from those that wish him harm. Raw deal indeed.
I reckon when you have someone willing to put the time in, they could find a way to make most of us felons by stretching a law around something it was never meant to cover.

[Luke E.]

Wait, am I reading into this correctly that he will regain his voting, gun and any other rights after 3yrs?

[JohnC]

Wait, am I reading into this correctly that he will regain his voting, gun and any other rights after 3yrs?

 

If he plead guilty to a felony, that is not going to go away.

 

It sounds like he plead guilty to 1 felony and got a 3 years suspended, replaced by probation and an ankle bracelet.

 

I guess he is confined to home and work for the next 3 years. One screw up and he's going to the penitentiary to serve the time.