Great War Movies

[Oh Shoot]

..... Some movies were meant to be filmed in color but budgets prevented them from being filmed in color and released in color (Psycho, The Birds) and even more modern movies were actually meant to be filmed and released in color but no budget (Raging Bull and Young Frankenstein were originally meant to be shot and released in color), but after limited release, they did so well in B&W, they just left it like that.

 

The Birds was filmed in on color neg and I've seen it in both formats, but from what I can see it was an artistic decision to release it in B/W, as Hitch thought it was "scarier", ala Psycho. Maybe. Dunno. But it certainly didn't seem to be a budgetary decision. Hitch films were a big draw at that time, and The Birds was highly hyped after the success of Psycho.

 

But for the other three, certainly only Psycho fits the premise. Hitch had already flipped back and forth from color to B/W productions,  but by choice. Except for Psycho, he had little trouble with budgets by then, having some 45 films under his belt. Psycho however, was indeed done on a shoestring budget as all the studios were reluctant to fund what was such a shocking movie for the time. He even used a basic TV studio crew as his techs on it.

 

However, Scorsese (Raging Bull) and Brooks (Young Frankenstein) chose black and white from the gitgo for artistic effect. RB had 18 million dollar budget, not exactly insignificant for 1980. Hell, the previous lush color of Taxi Driver was done on a 1.3 million dollar budget, by a then mostly unknown Scorsese and De Niro.

 

Brooks conceived YF in black and white from the gitgo as it was only fitting as the homage to the old horror flicks, and indeed Columbia turned him down on the project because of that, but Brooks stuck to his guns with the concept and 20th Century Fox agreed to do it with the B/W format.

 

And the kicker evidence is that neither Scorsese or Brooks had any choice as to having "left it like that", as both films were done on black and white neg stock, not color, so color release prints were never an option. Indeed, Scorsese has said that a contributory reason for doing RB in B/W was his concern of the fading tendency in Eastman color stock at the time. So the only color version of those two would have to be a "colorization". And if anyone does it, they should be shot. :)

 

- OS

Edited August 14, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest TankerHC]

The Birds was filmed in on color neg and I've seen it in both formats, but from what I can see it was an artistic decision to release it in B/W, as Hitch thought it was "scarier", ala Psycho. Maybe. Dunno. But it certainly didn't seem to be a budgetary decision. Hitch films were a big draw at that time, and The Birds was highly hyped after the success of Psycho.

 

But for the other three, certainly only Psycho fits the premise. Hitch had already flipped back and forth from color to B/W productions,  but by choice. Except for Psycho, he had little trouble with budgets by then, having some 45 films under his belt. Psycho however, was indeed done on a shoestring budget as all the studios were reluctant to fund what was such a shocking movie for the time. He even used a basic TV studio crew as his techs on it.

 

However, Scorsese (Raging Bull) and Brooks (Young Frankenstein) chose black and white from the gitgo for artistic effect. RB had 18 million dollar budget, not exactly insignificant for 1980. Hell, the previous lush color of Taxi Driver was done on a 1.3 million dollar budget, by a then mostly unknown Scorsese and De Niro.

 

Brooks conceived YF in black and white from the gitgo as it was only fitting as the homage to the old horror flicks, and indeed Columbia turned him down on the project because of that, but Brooks stuck to his guns with the concept and 20th Century Fox agreed to do it with the B/W format.

 

And the kicker evidence is that neither Scorsese or Brooks had any choice as to having "left it like that", as both films were done on black and white neg stock, not color, so color release prints were never an option. Indeed, Scorsese has said that a contributory reason for doing RB in B/W was his concern of the fading tendency in Eastman color stock at the time. So the only color version of those two would have to be a "colorization". And if anyone does it, they should be shot. :)

 

- OS

 

I dont think anyone has the b___s to colorize them, because of what happened with Citizen Kane. But they will definitely remake them in color eventually. They already have with Psycho 4 times. Also, I see there are numerous reasons for The Birds being shot B&W, intended to be shot in color. he couldn't do it. Because you cant get that many birds to act. So, it was shot in B&W for budgetary reasons, technology reasons and Hitchcock just thought it would be scarier. There were no real birds in the movie. Hitchcock filmed other birds and superimposed them over the actors with a silver screen. he also shot Phsyco with a TV film crew because  the studios turned him down on financing, (Same reason it was in B&W), the film crew he used was his own crew, from the TV show he had at the time. he used his own money. When the movie became a hit, the studios wanted it, but he kept it himself.

 

I think I am going to watch Raging Bull again here in a few. I may be mistaken but isnt there color scenes in that movie also (Haven't seen it in years?). Mel Brooks must have been trying to parody the original, because of the top 13 grossing Frankenstein films, only 3 were in B&W.

Edited August 14, 2013 by TankerHC

[Oh Shoot]

.... Also, I see there are numerous reasons for The Birds being shot B&W, intended to be shot in color. he couldn't do it. Because you cant get that many birds to act. So, it was shot in B&W for budgetary reasons, technology reasons and Hitchcock just thought it would be scarier. ..

 

Yes, I conceded the budgetary reasons for Psycho being in the mix. However, the other three, not.

 

The Birds was filmed on color neg stock, not black and white. And looking further,  I can find nothing but anecdotal evidence that the film was ever actually released in black and white at all, including Hitch's supposed quote of it being "scarier". 

 

So I'd say it's a confusion on the part of some regarding the black and white matting techniques that were used for the "green screen" special effects of the birds themselves, which was melded into the final color version.

 

As the editor sort of explains:

 

"Eventually the pair settled on what Hoffman calls a "coloring book" method. For every shot requiring birds, Hoffman made a black and white dupe. When the shot was completed, a color shot was substituted for the one in black and white. When the sequence was all in color, they knew it was complete. "With 412 outstanding shots to be kept track of, I'm amazed that the damn thing ever pulled together," Hoffman said."

 

So I'm highly skeptical now that the film was ever theatrically released in B/W at all, but only the Technicolor version.

 

I can find no clip or even still from the movie itself in B/W at all, except those from the B/W special effects layering.

 

Tech specs from IMDB:

 

Runtime 1 hr 59 min (119 min)

Sound Mix Mono (Westrex Recording System) (uncredited)

Color Color (Technicolor)

Aspect Ratio 1.37 : 1 (negative ratio) 1.85 : 1 (intended ratio)

Laboratory Technicolor, Hollywood (CA), USA (color by) (as Technicolor®)

Film Length 3,280 m (Finland) 3,280 m (Sweden)

Negative Format 35 mm Cinematographic Process Spherical Printed Film Format 35 mm

 

- OS

Edited August 14, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest TankerHC]

Yes, I conceded the budgetary reasons for Psycho being in the mix. However, the other three, not.

 

The Birds was filmed on color neg stock, not black and white. And looking further,  I can find nothing but anecdotal evidence that the film was ever actually released in black and white at all, including Hitch's supposed quote of it being "scarier". 

 

So I'd say it's a confusion on the part of some regarding the black and white matting techniques that were used for the "green screen" special effects of the birds themselves, which was melded into the final color version.

 

As the editor sort of explains:

 

"Eventually the pair settled on what Hoffman calls a "coloring book" method. For every shot requiring birds, Hoffman made a black and white dupe. When the shot was completed, a color shot was substituted for the one in black and white. When the sequence was all in color, they knew it was complete. "With 412 outstanding shots to be kept track of, I'm amazed that the damn thing ever pulled together," Hoffman said."

 

So I'm highly skeptical now that the film was ever theatrically released in B/W at all, but only the Technicolor version.

 

I can find no clip or even still from the movie itself in B/W at all, except those from the B/W special effects layering.

 

Tech specs from IMDB:

 

Runtime 1 hr 59 min (119 min)

Sound Mix Mono (Westrex Recording System) (uncredited)

Color Color (Technicolor)

Aspect Ratio 1.37 : 1 (negative ratio) 1.85 : 1 (intended ratio)

Laboratory Technicolor, Hollywood (CA), USA (color by) (as Technicolor®)

Film Length 3,280 m (Finland) 3,280 m (Sweden)

Negative Format 35 mm Cinematographic Process Spherical Printed Film Format 35 mm

 

- OS

 

Green screen was addressed, he didnt use green screen, he used silver screen. But the rest, Ill leave up to you...didnt you say in another post you went to film school?

[Oh Shoot]

Green screen was addressed, he didnt use green screen, he used silver screen. But the rest, Ill leave up to you...didnt you say in another post you went to film school?

 

No, I just worked in the field, and have been ever the film buff. I just used "green screen" as generic term for special effects matting, the same principle seen with your local weatherman even today.

 

- OS

[Guest TankerHC]

No, I just worked in the field, and have been ever the film buff. I just used "green screen" as generic term for special effects matting, the same principle seen with your local weatherman even today.

 

- OS

 

Thats the good thing about movie threads. Disregarding the technical aspects, no matter what I say I am right and if someone completely disagrees with me 180 degrees, they are right too. If I say The Man with two Heads was the greatest movie I have ever seen and Rosie Greer the greatest Thespian Genius I have ever seen then guess what, its the greatest movie I have ever seen. Fortunately, movie stars and the AMP can give out all the awards they want, those are meaningless since I (and you, and everyone who pays a buck to see a movie) is the judge of that, not them. I have heard the crap with film makers say "Well we never expected it to be big, we did it for the art". Thats a big BS! Every movie maker out their aspires to be the next Spielberg, Spielberg has done movies for "The Art" and "to tell the story", after he became a gazillionare making movies to make money. Jaws wasnt art, and it didnt tell anyones story, but it made a bunch of money, the reason Spielberg did it.

[Oh Shoot]

... Jaws wasnt art, and it didnt tell anyones story, but it made a bunch of money, the reason Spielberg did it.

 

Spielberg at his entertaining best is just a big wide eyed movie fan kid, and he's said as much. There has always been a market for rip roaring pure entertainment and always will be -- message not needed. Jaws, ET, and the Indy flics will always stand within the pinnacle of that genre IMO.

 

Remember Duel? He burst on the scene with that low budget TV flick, but it so captured the imagination that it made him almost instantly famous, and gave him the clout to make and/or direct only what he wanted from there on, with very few hiccups along the way.

 

Oh, and btw speaking of stories, in Jaws, Quint's USS Indianapolis story within the story was quite the highlight I thought.

 

- OS

Edited August 14, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest TankerHC]

Spielberg at his entertaining best is just a big wide eyed movie fan kid, and he's said as much. There has always been a market for rip roaring pure entertainment and always will be -- message not needed. Jaws, ET, and the Indy flics will always stand within the pinnacle of that genre IMO.

 

Remember Duel? He burst on the scene with that low budget TV flick, but it so captured the imagination that it made him almost instantly famous, and gave him the clout to make and/or direct only what he wanted from there on, with very few hiccups along the way.

 

Oh, and btw speaking of stories, in Jaws, Quint's USS Indianapolis story within the story was quite the highlight I thought.

 

- OS

 

 

That was an interesting thing (The Indianapolis). Before he mentioned it, no one had hear about the incident because, like the Leopoldville, it was kept quiet. Once the Captains trial was over, it was over. Until the History Channel revived it and let the sailors tell their story (And a hell of a horrifying story it was) a few years ago.

 

Nearly to a man, every one of those sailors defended their Captain.

Edited August 14, 2013 by TankerHC

[vontar]

That has been a very enlightening thread.

 

I spoke with my co worker about this, the one that I had an on going debate with about Wars of the Worlds. 

 

I had remembered it in Black and white and later saw in color and known how old it was, I incorrectly assumed they had make it, and remade it.

But all the research I had done only showed me the color one.

 

I now believe it was filmed in color and had the multiple releases.  I ran that by my co worker today and then I brought up The African Queen.  He then said he thought it was black and white and later colorized.  I let him know what has been said her and he was taken back.  He said he was going to have to look into that. 

[Guest TankerHC]

On using color in movies going back to the 40's. Read yesterday that the reason most movies were actually still made in B&W up to the late 50's was because the color tones that were available back then made everything look entirely fake or so bright that serious movies looked like comedies. One quote "so color in the 40's and early 50's was all but limited to musicals and carnival movies".

[Guest TankerHC]

Thread revival.

Watched last night. BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN. Forgot some of those old silent movies were pretty good. Recently watched All Quiet on the western front and the original original A CHRISTMAS Carol from 1913

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

[runco]

I like this thread.  Me and the kids watched The Final Countdown this past week.  Imagine a modern U.S. Carrier back in 1941.  Do you know the movie came out 40 years after Pearl Harbor, and its been 32 years since that movie came out.  Wow, how time flies.   The kids now want to watch Tora, Tora, Tora, that will be this weekend. 

Edited September 17, 2013 by Runco

[vontar]

I like this thread.  Me and the kids watched The Final Countdown this past week.  Imagine a modern U.S. Carrier back in 1941.  Do you know the movie came out 40 years after Pearl Harbor, and its been 32 years since that movie came out.  Wow, how time flies.   The kids now want to watch Tora, Tora, Tora, that will be this weekend. 

 

Yup that was an interesting idea.  I used to image what just one modern jet could do in WW2.  Probably only one good mission as rearming would be out of the question.   A former marine I worked with thought one Marine unit with today's training/knowledge using period correct weapons could have seriously changed something like the civil war, shorted it.

[Mike.357]

I love how threads such as these always end up being about naming a movie that has not been named yet, the movie being good or not never really matters.

 

That said how could anyone forget such military classics as Stripes and Private Benjamin and GI Jane.

[TMF]

I love how threads such as these always end up being about naming a movie that has not been named yet, the movie being good or not never really matters.

That said how could anyone forget such military classics as Stripes and Private Benjamin and GI Jane.

Aww, c'mon. Don't lump Stripes in with the rest of those piles of crap; it was a fun movie.

[battleop]

I can't believe that no one has mentioned an all time Stanley Kubrick classic, as in the words of Private Pyle, "Full... Metal... Jacket..."

If you work for me this is on the list of required movies to watch. If you don't watch the list you won't get the jokes and nicknames I give people.

[tartanphantom]

Thread revival.

Watched last night. BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN. Forgot some of those old silent movies were pretty good. Recently watched All Quiet on the western front and the original original A CHRISTMAS Carol from 1913

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

 

All three are excellent choices (even though the last one is not a "war film").  I'm a big fan of the silent film era. "The Passion of Joan of Arc" is probably one of my favorites, along with, of course, the restored version of "Metropolis"-- after the missing footage was found a few years ago and re-installed into the film, the plot makes SO much more sense now.

 

Anyway, enough sidetracking-- back to the war films now...

Edited September 18, 2013 by tartanphantom

[Guest TankerHC]

Metropolis is next on the list. Its on one of the Roku Channels for free. Now I am on the search for other Silent War movies. 

Edited September 18, 2013 by TankerHC

[tartanphantom]

Metropolis is next on the list. Its on one of the Roku Channels for free. Now I am on the search for other Silent War movies. 

 

The ONLY version of Metropolis you need to see-- All of the public domain versions are chopped to hell and MUCH of the plotline is completely missing, making the story virtually impossible to follow.

Kino's 2010 release includes over 20 minutes of crucial restored footage, which was completely lost until 2008, when a print of Fritz Lang's original cut was found in the film vault of an Argentina museum.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2013 by tartanphantom

[McGarrett]

+1 for Heartbreak Ridge, Midway, Tora, Tora, Tora. A few that come to mind; Sands of Iwo Jima, Dirty Dozen, Great Escape, Kellys Heroes, Where Eagles Dare, Green Berets, Full Metal Jacket.

 

I know it's not a movie but I like to catch an episode of Baa Baa Black Sheep every once in a while.

 

I tried to reenact Toro, Toro, Toro on Monday but the mission was a failure, only got 1/2 the yard done and retreated back to the house, maybe it was because I was using a Snapper, but I also was not very sneaky or ruthless either. I will try again tomorrow. It is a never ending battle against a highly motivated and ever growing enemy.

[bersaguy]

Gray Lady Down

Run Silent Run Deep

PT109

Bat 13

Flight of the Intruder

[Guest TankerHC]

Forgot about Gray Lady Down, good movie. Isnt that Bat 21 with Hackman, never saw the movie, just read the book. 

 

Back when I was a kid we used to go to the D.C. wax museum. They had a lifesize display of Kennedy on PT 109 and also a bow display of those 4 Chaplains that went down with the ship. 

Edited September 18, 2013 by TankerHC

[bersaguy]

Forgot about Gray Lady Down, good movie. Isnt that Bat 21 with Hackman, never saw the movie, just read the book. 

 

Back when I was a kid we used to go to the D.C. wax museum. They had a lifesize display of Kennedy on PT 109 and also a bow display of those 4 Chaplains that went down with the ship. 

Yep sorry it was bat 21. Great movie based somewhat on a real life story but it shows how hard we will work to retrieve one of our military people. Never leave a man behind unless............ aahh never mind. Like being a member here.

[Guest TankerHC]

Yep sorry it was bat 21. Great movie based somewhat on a real life story but it shows how hard we will work to retrieve one of our military people. Never leave a man behind unless............ aahh never mind. Like being a member here.

 

Ever see the documentaries on History about the Air Force rescue units in Vietnam? Talk about some brave men. Or crazy. Or both. They had video on there of those guys rappeling down to pilots, while they were under fire. They dropped, and they were under such intense fire that thier own helicopters had to leave and sometimes couldnt come back for hours. Then when they were able to come back and get them, they low roped them up and flew them across the treetops hanging out the helicopter, getting shot at. Thats pretty damn brave if you ask me, and those guys had to do it near daily for helicopter pilots and crews and their fighters and bomber pilots. 

Edited September 19, 2013 by TankerHC

[bersaguy]

Well tanker I got to see those documentaries first hand because there was a few times my team was extracted that way in extremely hot zones and one of the door gunners from one of those huey's lives just down the road from me and it was his huey that extracted my team 3 different times. we talk daily and have dinner together once a week at least. I know a few folks mentioned that movie  "We were Soldiers" and Qui Trang Valley battle. I knew one of those gun ship pilots in that real battle and his name wasEd (too tall) Freeman and when the Medivac Choppers were ordered not to go back in to pick up wounded because the area was to hot and one had got shot down. Freeman and two other Huey gunships refused to stop flying and they carried in ammo and carried out wounded and even when Freeman was shot 4 times he still flew 7 more missions back in while he was all shot up before that battle finally turned around. He didn't learn until about 9 hours after he was in the hospital that on his next to last trip in he flew his own wounded son out. He didn't even know his son was in that battle until his nurse mentioned that it was odd to have two patients named Freeman at the same time and he was wheeled over to find out it was his son. Mr Freeman flew in Korea and Vietnam. Your right about them being very brave men but a few folks said they are just plain crazy.......That is what war is and that is what true heroes do in war.