Water

[Caster]

So Im sitting here watching "Prophets of Doom" on the history channel and they are addressing the rapid loss of drinking water.
Well dang, can't make it, can't live without it.

There's an old debate I'd like to dig up. Distilled water. Some sources say its bad fr you. Some say that the removed minerals make it bad but that's bunk because we get our minerals for our food.
I've read where distilled water latches onto elements making it potentially dangerous to store.

Granted distilled water tastes bad but taste isn't a real concern.

Last thing I want is a visit from the revenue man but I'm seriously thinking of building a large scale still. I have a Durastill but it is NOT efficient and requires a lot of electricity.

Discuss! Edited August 7, 2013 by Caster

[Caster]

My first step has been to collect the items needed to build a sand filter. They are great, easy to build and work very well provided the source water is not overly contaminated.

Here's the rub, what if your source water becomes contaminated by man made chemicals? You can't just filter out caffeine or prednisone. What about all the chemicals that can't be removed by normal means? Distilling is the only method a normal man can use to reasonably remove all the heavy metals and chemicals. Edited August 7, 2013 by Caster

[Peace]

I have a Katadyn Vario with a supply of filters.    It's my line between ideal and real.

 

Review here.

 

I should be buying filters like I buy ammo - a little here and there - and a backup housing... or two.  :)

[Caster]

I have a Katadyn in my bug out bag.
I'm thinking about ALL water. LONG TERM. Not just a short while for drinking water.


What would you do if you can't even come up with water suitable to bathe in? Sanitation will play pivotal role in a society's collapse. If you can't even get a water good enough to wash yourself in, your clothes and what not......you're in more trouble than you think.

Most people will never give a thought to what would happen if they turn the spigot and nothing comes out. Scary thought.

[Peace]

Good thoughts.

 

Well, if everything is contaminated and sanitation services are gone, it'sbetter to have just enough water at that point.... ie. a semi-arid climate with a water source.  Extremely low relative humidity will cut down on the bathing and washing - though it will increase rate of dehydration through respiration.  - so your water source might just be a nightly condensation farm.  

 

Being here in TN with all water sources contaminated and no sanitation is a tough spot.  There are more mouths to feed than anyone can imagine.... which means there is a much bigger sanitation issue than most can imagine.  And in the winter??  - ever seen the pictures of Cumberland Gap in the Civil war?  Even in the 1860's -with less need for energy and less people to sustain, our country's forests were laid bare before and after the industrial revolution.  One's best bet is to figure out how to live where no one else wants to be.  Any climate that is temperate to tropical could fast become a disease wasteland.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Peace

[monkeylizard]

One's best bet is to figure out how to live where no one else wants to be.  

 

Memphis?

[Clod Stomper]

Memphis?

Nope. Spend 50 bucks and buy a house in Detroit for a bug-out location.

[Caster]

Nope. Spend 50 bucks and buy a house in Detroit for a bug-out location.

My God, if one could figure a way to buy some of those big buildings and generate your own power, food and water as well as enough revenue to pay land taxes, you'd be set!

That place is ripe for a survivalist movement to pick.

[Peace]

That place is ripe for a survivalist movement to pick.

It sounds good until Uncle Sam assumes you are doing something unacceptable.

Any way around that? (rabbit trail) Edited August 7, 2013 by Peace

[c.a.willard]

I would think if absolutely necessary it would not be terribly difficult to convert an existing hot water heater into a still to distill water with. You should be able to salvage everything needed fro your own home.

[tnguy]

A still would not be a bad thing to have but then you run into fuel issues. Might want to look into a solar still. You'll probably still want to be storing a decent quantity of water though.

 

If you have to live on distilled water long enough that any mineral content might be an issue, there's bigger problems going on.

[Dennis1209]

Here's my thoughts on water and I could be wrong but...

 

In the last six thousand years not one drop of water has left planet earth and gone to outer space, it's still all here. Not talking about food but, there's enough water to support twenty times the earths current population and crops. People seem to be drinking the polluted Kool-Aid.

 

The problems are pollution and access with maybe weather rain patterns changing a bit? Russia and China have, last I heard, 75% of their water supply's polluted and unsafe to drink because of modernization, industry and dumping their poisoned waste water untreated into their lakes and rivers.

 

Africa has plenty of water if you dig for it and make a well. They have huge aquifers just like most places on earth, might have to dig a little deeper but...When was the last time you watched one of those World Vision or other charities showing droughts, etc. Did you happen to see any rain catchment systems or anything to collect water when it does rain? NOPE! What you saw was them sitting around on their ass doing nothing with flies eating them up. Charities have to come in and dig a simple well for them.

 

The earth is 3/4 water and desalination is a simple process. It amazes me all these survival programs where contestants are stranded on a beach with no fresh water to drink, and you don't need any fuel.  

 

Rant / OFF

[Mark A]

This is why I am dehydrating as much fresh water as I can. I am storing the dehydrated water in 5 gallon food grade buckets.

The only real problem is when I rehydrate it. If I rehydrate with water from a different source it changes the taste...

Mark

[TMF]

Somehow there are entire cultures of people living in the desert for at least 10,000 years, and they still have drinking water despite getting less than an inch of rainfall a year in some places. I'm not too worried about the earth drying up of all water. If something happens where the US goes third world overnight, with our lakes and waterways turning into polluted sources like in most of Africa, we will still, somehow, endure.

If the spigot does just turn off one day, folks still have a long time before they're dying of thirst, at least if they're smart. A hot water heater alone has enough water to make it through for a while until you have to find another source. As far as bathing, well, believe it or not you don't need a bath. Folks go entire lifetimes without bathing. I've gone about a month with nothing more than baby wipes, which is more just to keep the stank down so I can live with myself. When it rains, that's when you lather up and stand outside naked.

[Jamie Jackson]

This is an interesting topic, and some good points have been brought up.

 

Water is heavy and occupies a lot of space...obvious statement.

A person or group can only store just so much. But living in the South East as we do water is relatively readily available.

Great point regarding contamination. But it’s simply not feasible to prepare for every known contaminant source, or to store several years’ worth of water….much less a lifetimes worth.

 

The earth itself does a great job of filtering out most contaminants. A deep water well, protected from the elements (such as in a shed) could be priceless in a protracted grid down scenario. Obviously a manual pump would be in order.

 

But barring a Mad Max situation, which I personally feel is unlikely, there are quite a few steps we all could take.

 

What we have/do/did:

We practice water catchment using a couple of 55 gallon barrels with several 5 gallon overflow buckets.

These are primarily for garden use on our raised beds.

We have a dual 5 gallon bucket sand filter setup for removing gross contaminants and debris.

We have multiple plastic water containers, both 5 gallon and one gallon. We also have a 55 gallon plastic water barrel, treated and sealed and a hand pump for it.

We keep and rotate gallon jugs of unscented household bleach. It’s an absolute necessity for sanitation purposes, imho, is inexpensive, readily available, and works great for making safe drinking water. God knows I’ve consumed gallons of chlorine treated water from a “water buffalo” while in the service and lived to tell about it.

We also have in daily use a Big Berkey water filtration system and use it daily. We have an extra set of Black filters and standard filters.

There is plenty of anecdotal tales of the Berkey systems being in use in 3^rd world countries with a single filter set functioning for up to 20 years.

 

Our goal in having enough water on hand, initially, is to last for 30 days. That includes water for drinking, cooking, and sanitation. That should, hopefully, allow time to attend other needs and initiate further water procurement and treatment…hopefully.

It's a good time now to identify potential water sources...i.e. lakes and rivers and plan, and practice, retrieval of water from those sources.

 

We learned from previous hurricane experiences that you can maintain a daily bath with a one gallon jug of water. In the summer time we would just sit a few gallons out in the sun and have at least a warm shower type bath at the end on the day.

Keeping a vac sealed supply of pre-moistened toweletts on hand helps as regards sanitation as well.

 

:2cents:

[Dolomite_supafly]

Household bleach is a short term solution. Bleach will break down into salts within a few years. Calcium hypochlorite is a much better solution because it stores indefinitely. It is available at most pool supply stores.

 

As far as distilling water I would try to find a beer keg and use it. They are generally stainless steel and it is easy to rig up a still to evaporate water. You can also use it to distill alcohol for fuel and medical uses. You can get them from most liquar stores for $45 for a full sized keg that is empty. Heck, even a basic tea pot will distill water on a small scale.

 

Here is a home made handpump I made. It is easy and cheap.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/42752-how-to-home-made-handpump-for-water-all-parts-at-lowes/?hl=pump

I use it to pull water from about 40 feet below.

 

I learned a lot last year when our power went out for 4 days. I learned then water was our weak spot so I installed the hand pump and have several containers I can use to collect rain water.

[Caster]

Okay, lets back up. I understand basic physics. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. So the water that's here, is here to stay. The turning of this world into a mars like desert wasteland is preposterous.

The show I was watching was referring to the rapid loss of DRINKING quality water. According to them, the underground aquifers are being depleted a lot faster than anyone s telling us. Since they are nothing more than trapped glaciers from the ice age, they cannot be replenished by rain. Despite people's efforts, pollution still escalates. There's trace elements of some nasty stuff found in the fish we depend on. Millions of pounds of fish come from our rivers and its getting more and more unsafe to eat every year.


I don't believe for an instant that water itself will ever be difficult to acquire. POTABLE water....different story. Therefore purification techniques are paramount to a persons survival.

[Jamie Jackson]

Good points guys.

 

We keep calcium hypochlorite stored for long term use...sealed to protect it from moisture.

 

This is a decent article on the topic, and I've seen a few threads here on TGO discussing it as well.

 

http://readynutrition.com/resources/better-than-bleach-use-calcium-hypochlorite-to-disinfect-water_19062010/

 

 

I like the pump Dolomite. :up:

 

 

 

 

Caster;

 

It seems like I've read before about the depletion of the Ogallala aquifer, or concerns thereof. As far as I know it's our largest, extending through 8 different states.

Not to go all tree-hugging and crap, but our actions as a culture are not without consequences. We make enough trash, and poison enough fields (Monsanto...), and we reap what we sow.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

We aren't going to have a shortage of water. There are too many ways to purify it. And like Dennis said, it's all still here.

If you are worried about drinkable water, don't go and get all hyped about some of the stories about some country's

water supply being mostly un-drinkable. Read a little more. There's always too much fear based in a lot of those stories.

 

Get a Berkey and live next to a creek.

[Jamie Jackson]

 

Get a Berkey and live next to a creek.

 

 

LOL

 

Well said Good Sir. :up:

[Caster]

Berkey filters are made by Doultan of the UK. According to them removal of viruses is not a certainty. For absolute safety the water would still have to be boiled to kill any viruses. If I have to go through that and still have to pay the $300-400 bucks for a Berkey filter, I think I'll just distill it and get it in one shot.

Do Berkey filters have to be cleaned? I know a sand filter will work about as well but the sand would have to be changed at some interval.
If the "creek" as you say is relatively clean or even better spring fed and you can get to that spring, a good sand filter would be easiest. I have some food grade 55gal drums. They had 7up syrup in them and I rinsed them well and put where they won't get contaminated. Some play box sand and some fittings....maybe $50 total depending on the final set up.

I'd like to have a Berkey but ceramic filters can get damaged. As clumsy as I am........ Edited August 8, 2013 by Caster

[Jamie Jackson]

Caster;

 

The Berkey filter are very easy to clean.

I just take my unit apart about every 6 months (daily use item my friend) and clean it out with soap and water.

The filters, or candles, are just scrubbed on the outer surface with a green Scotch Brite pad.

 

We have a stored set of the Black Berkey filters: [url=http://www.berkeywater.com/start.main.html] Link[/url] along with a set of the white ceramic filters [url=http://www.directive21.com/products/7-inch-super-sterasyl-ceramic-replacement-filters/] another link[/url].

But as you mentioned, virus removal is not guaranteed.

I would treat questionable water by pre-filtering through sand...then with bleach, or bringing it to a boil. No matter what system I decided upon.