Pretty sure a guy that bought ammo this morning

[Oh Shoot]

Not true. If you buy something with the sole intent of reselling it, you must have a business license and collect sales tax. These guys are breaking the law.

 

I think you'll find the business license thang to be very sketchy. Except for certain professions that require one from the state, they are handled by each county and city, and you'll find that there's really no penalty for not having one.

 

Sales and income tax are another matter, and of course every American is supposed to pay them. Right. Hope and Change has created the largest underground economy in history, at least for otherwise legal goods and services.

 

- OS

Edited August 8, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[crossfire]

What I said above isn't quite right, but it applies to ammo resales. If someone repeatedly buys goods with the intent of reselling those goods for a profit, then he/she must have a business license, collect sales tax, AND report the profits made on Schedule C of their Federal Tax Return.

 

If someone sells a one-time item for a profit, it should be reported a capital gain and taxes paid depending on whether it is a long-term or short-term (less than one year) holding period.

:rofl:

[RobertNashville]

The only thing that will stop people from buying ammunition to resell at an inflated price is when people stop buying at the inflated price; bitching and moaning about it isn't going to change a thing...it's simple capitalism.

 

This situation should, among other things, tell folks that they need a good supply of ammunition bought over time so that when market fluctuations like this happen they aren't caught off guard.  It's no different than someone who goes to the grocery every night on their way home so that they can buy what they are going to have for dinner that night; have a supply so that when they predict a 1/16 inch of snow you don't have to rush to Kroger's just to make sure you have some milk and bread in the house.

[tnguy]

Yep. Good luck getting stock. Lemme know of all specials. :)

 

Seriously, TN may have some special license I don't know of, but you don't need a federal one.

 

- OS

 

 

The new place that opened up in Cool Springs had plenty last time I was in (except .22, sadly). That was a couple of months ago though.

[RobertNashville]

What I said above isn't quite right, but it applies to ammo resales. If someone repeatedly buys goods with the intent of reselling those goods for a profit, then he/she must have a business license, collect sales tax, AND report the profits made on Schedule C of their Federal Tax Return.

 

If someone sells a one-time item for a profit, it should be reported a capital gain and taxes paid depending on whether it is a long-term or short-term (less than one year) holding period.

Well I'm sure these folks are doing all of that...just like I"m sure everyone who buys stuff over the internet without getting charged TN sales taxes are self-reporting that and sending their money into the state.  ;)

[Randall53]

I guess what puzzles me is why people are still paying such inflated prices on gunbroker etc.....  Even though prices aren't what they were last year at this time, it's not $75+ a brick if you just look online.  Cabela's has 22lr right now ,100 rounds of CCI mini mags for 8.99.  Cheap? Not compared to last year, but a lot cheaper than the resellers we are talking about.  With just a little patience and diligence, you can fill your ammo buckets with 22lr.  A friend and I have each bought around 2000 rounds from Cabela's over the past 5 months, and split the shipping each time.  We have averaged under $20 a brick including shipping.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Randall53

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It might make everyone angry but buying for a given price and marking up for a profit is capitalism.

If you got a deal on a car and flipped it for a profit, what's the difference? Sure, somebody would be pissed but that's just life. It all boils down to the haves and the have nots. The have nots are always upset with the haves for having something they want.

Fair pricing and price control for anything is communism. That's why there are anti-monopoly laws. To keep absolute control out of people's hands.

And, as has been stated over and over, there is no law that says you have to buy anything you fell is unreasonably priced.

Go read up on Laissez Faire and capitalism, and get back to me. That's not capitalism. Maybe a bastardization of it.

There is no law against what they are doing, and it resembles it, but they are two different things, Caster.

 

Fear and governmental restrictions have no place in Capitalism. Pure supply and demand is also different. These guys

are trying to assist causing the shortage by stockpiling and selling at a higher price. It's more akin to cronyism, to me.

 

But believe what you wish. There is nothing that the government has it's hands in that is remotely related to capitalism,

and these folks are taking advantage of the political implications to make a profit.

 

But we've had this discussion and it just seems to bore people.

 

The market will settle itself out and these people will finally go away, for a while.

[Randall53]

It might make everyone angry but buying for a given price and marking up for a profit is capitalism.

If you got a deal on a car and flipped it for a profit, what's the difference? Sure, somebody would be pissed but that's just life. It all boils down to the haves and the have nots. The have nots are always upset with the haves for having something they want.

Fair pricing and price control for anything is communism. That's why there are anti-monopoly laws. To keep absolute control out of people's hands.

And, as has been stated over and over, there is no law that says you have to buy anything you fell is unreasonably priced.

 

One car bought and resold for a profit and no one would notice.....four cars and no one would care.  Keep doing it and after your fifth car you will get a visit from the state.

 

http://www.dmv.org/tn-tennessee/buy-sell/car-dealers/dealer-licensing.php

 

No one could afford to buy up all the used cars on Craigslist, for $5,000 for example, in front of everyone looking for a car and resell them to the desperate for $50,000 so your comparison is apples and oranges.

[jphillips63]

People have a right to buy and sell what they want that's the american way regardless of the product. Way I see it you have two choices buy it from the resellers or don't there's no need in crying and bitching because someone has seen a way to make money.
If you don't want to pay inflated prices wait it out it'll settle down one day maybe. Some may call me a hoarder that's OK but I've been buying ammo powder bullets and primers way before this ever happened. Yes I have more than I'll ever need in my lifetime. One day it may become a lifesaver and bargaining power to survive, I hope not but I also don't see this country getting any better.

sent from my RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk 2

[crossfire]

I guess what puzzles me is why people are still paying such inflated prices on gunbroker etc.....  Even though prices aren't what they were last year at this time, it's not $75+ a brick if you just look online.  Cabela's has 22lr right now ,100 rounds of CCI mini mags for 8.99.  Cheap? Not compared to last year, but a lot cheaper than the resellers we are talking about.  With just a little patience and diligence, you can fill your ammo buckets with 22lr.  A friend and I have each bought around 2000 rounds from Cabela's over the past 5 months, and split the shipping each time.  We have averaged under $20 a brick including shipping.

I've been doing the same thing with Cabela's but I won't order anything less then a brick of 500 to make up for the shipping. 100 rounds of CCI mini mags for 8.99+$5.00 shipping is too high for me. But thanks for the heads up.

[Clod Stomper]

I understand, but I'm beginning to wonder just how temporary this will be.

I gave up making predictions a good while back. But I do believe this is temporary. The shortage that began in 2008 lasted a couple of years. That's including "evil" guns and parts. We're less than a year from the last election and Newtown, and EBRs are already back to reasonable prices. I believe ammo won't be far behind.

Again, I'm not making a prediction. Just saying what I think based in past experience.

[TMF]

I guess what puzzles me is why people are still paying such inflated prices on gunbroker etc..... Even though prices aren't what they were last year at this time, it's not $75+ a brick if you just look online. Cabela's has 22lr right now ,100 rounds of CCI mini mags for 8.99. Cheap? Not compared to last year, but a lot cheaper than the resellers we are talking about. With just a little patience and diligence, you can fill your ammo buckets with 22lr. A friend and I have each bought around 2000 rounds from Cabela's over the past 5 months, and split the shipping each time. We have averaged under $20 a brick including shipping.

This surprises me too. I've actually let some of that slip by because I didn't need it, but I've seen the buckets of bullets and such for sale. Shipping adds a bit to the cost, but when you buy enough it makes up for it. What I don't understand are the people who are still buying it from Bubba for 5X the cost when they could get it cheaper if they just had a little patience. Maybe they don't know any better?

I just wish I could go to the store like I used to and grab rounds while I'm there. It's a convenience thing. What bothers me aren't shooters and hoarders who are using the stuff, it's the scalpers. If it weren't for a very select few we wouldn't be having such an ammo shortage.

[Keyless]

 I guess if you have to buy at inflated prices , that is the price you pay for not seeing this coming. I stocked up many years ago and have only bought ammo for a few guns that I have bought in calibers that I didn't already have. Those new guns got a few boxes bought for them and when the ammo gets available at normal prices , I will stock up for them .

 

  Just don't buy it. I don't even look for ammo or reloading supplies anymore and haven't for months. If I am in the store for something else , sure I look , but I haven't bought any ammo in about 6 month . The last I remember buying was some 45 G.A.P for a pistol that I bought ( why I bought it I still don't know ) .I belive this was around Febuary and it was not that hard to find or inflated.

[frankmako]

It might make everyone angry but buying for a given price and marking up for a profit is capitalism.

If you got a deal on a car and flipped it for a profit, what's the difference? Sure, somebody would be pissed but that's just life. It all boils down to the haves and the have nots. The have nots are always upset with the haves for having something they want.

Fair pricing and price control for anything is communism. That's why there are anti-monopoly laws. To keep absolute control out of people's hands.

And, as has been stated over and over, there is no law that says you have to buy anything you fell is unreasonably priced.

 

i am with caster on this.  capitalism is the only system that  works for me.  a smart buyer knows the true price of an item and buys according to what he can buy with his needs in mind. 

[Guest RevScottie]

If you are looking for someone to blame look no further than the "Doomsday Prepper" folks who think that in some apocalyptic future they will be able to trade their .22LR for a cow. Why else have more than a lifetime supply?

[DaveTN]

Be part of the solution; not part of the problem. Sounds like a few here may be part of the problem.
 
One thing is for sure, the people causing this shortage are gun owners. To believe that the government is buying up the ammo is ridiculous. I guess if it makes you feel better you can blame some politicians for trying to pass legislation that has not passed, but apparently has scared some gun owners enough to make them think they need to hoard ammo.
 
Manufacturing will maintain a flow; doubtful many of them will make capital expenditures that can’t be justified at this time. Ammo is showing up and will continue as the hoarders drop off. Will the prices drop back to where they were? That will be a tough one. Just like with gas many have shown that they will pay crazy prices. The supply chain might have to start backing up before you see good pricing again.

[RobertNashville]

I'm curious; how much ammunition does one person have to have to be hording ammunition?

 

A thousand rounds per caliber? five thousand?

 

And does it matter "how and when" they bought the ammunition; by that I mean, if you have 20,000 rounds of .223 that you bought a couple hundred rounds at a time over a few yeas is does that negate the label of hording?

 

Not trying to start an argument here..just wondering what factors people take into consideration.

[gjohnsoniv]

I'm curious; how much ammunition does one person have to have to be hording ammunition?

 

A thousand rounds per caliber? five thousand?

 

And does it matter "how and when" they bought the ammunition; by that I mean, if you have 20,000 rounds of .223 that you bought a couple hundred rounds at a time over a few yeas is does that negate the label of hording?

 

Not trying to start an argument here..just wondering what factors people take into consideration.

I think the use of the ammunition would justify hoarding or just being a shooter.  See if I buy 20k rounds but refuse to shoot that because I'm saving it for whatever I call that hoarding.  However if I buy that, shoot it, replenish I don't see that as hoarding.

[RobertNashville]

If you are looking for someone to blame look no further than the "Doomsday Prepper" folks who think that in some apocalyptic future they will be able to trade their .22LR for a cow. Why else have more than a lifetime supply?

 

I don't know about your proposed rate of exchange but I am absolutely convinced that (assuming nothing else happens first) the U.S. economy will collapse under the weight of the socialist government pays for everything utopia that both parties are working to create.  When that happens...when Average Joe Citizen realizes that our "money" is worthless only things of real value to someone (ammunition, food, skills, etc.) will actually be worth something and will then take the place of our phoney money.

 

The only reason we haven't already gone the way of Greece is because of the size of our economy compared to Greece and because so far, the rest of the world is too afraid to do what they know they should do which is abandon the U.S. dollar as a medium of exchange (since, other than perception, the dollar is worthless).  Sooner or later, it's going to catch up with us...no economy, no matter how large, can continue to spend nearly 150% of its revenues (not to mention the many, many trillions$ of "entitlement obligations" we don't even count as part of our debt).

 

What is happening in Detroit (and is ready to happen in many other large cities) is just in microcosm what the U.S. federal government is facing...the only thing propping up the fed now is their printing presses.

 

And you know what, if I'm totally and completely wrong, most of that stuff (food, ammunition, etc.) is still valuable and usable, if not usable for the prepper who bought it then his family or neighbors...none of it need to go waste. ;)

Edited August 9, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, if hoarding is illegal, take me away. No one mentions the person who saved a million dollars.

Is that hoarding? Hoarding isn't anything but saving for a rainy day.

Edited August 9, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[Hershmeister]

So hoarding is about intent? Hilarious


I predict the shortage to last well into next spring. The good news is that high demand and high prices encourage new entrants to the market which will increase supply and ultimately lower prices. I'm surprised that we've not yet seen a bunch of new reloading manufacturers so I assume components have not yet caught up with demand yet either.

[tnguy]

Hoarding is not a big issue. A hoarder will buy once or twice and that is all the effect they will have on the supply chain. What we are seeing is panic buying having an effect on an inelastic supply chain. Though the panic is not completely irrational. If you know it is possibly going to be hard to get a good in the future, it makes sense to buy it when you see it. That leads to it being hard to get that good in the future. The cycle continues until everyone has "enough". And more than a few people will have "Too much" which could lead to some bargains in the future.

 

Patience is the best thing to have right now. If you need ammo to shoot, that's one thing. If you (sensibly) just want to keep some on hand for whatever (including a repeat of this shortage), just wait. The apocalypse /probably/ isn't going to happen tomorrow and if you feel that way, you should have stocked up when the availability was good. Start putting some money aside and calculating what you need as a reasonable stash.

 

Think of it as a correction. Too many people had too little ammo.

Edited August 9, 2013 by tnguy

[tnguy]

So hoarding is about intent? Hilarious


I predict the shortage to last well into next spring. The good news is that high demand and high prices encourage new entrants to the market which will increase supply and ultimately lower prices. I'm surprised that we've not yet seen a bunch of new reloading manufacturers so I assume components have not yet caught up with demand yet either.

 

The thing is, it's clear that this shortage is just short-term. So new entrants would suddenly find themselves up against well established competition in a shrinking market. The only way this shortage isn't short-term is if the government pull some anti-gun shenanigans which would lead to an even smaller market.

 

So it's not really good for encouraging competition and established players, if they're smart, will only ramp up production in ways which won't leave them with a bunch of idle equipment and a heap of debt come 2014.

[jphillips63]

I guess I can be labeled as a hoarder if the case is buy and not use. I've been buying ammo, powder, bullets and primers for years and I still do when I find it at a price I feel is fair. I won't go into how much I own but its more than I'll probably will ever use.
buying ammo is like buying gold and packing it away. Its called survival when or if the time comes this country collapses.

sent from my RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk 2

[gjohnsoniv]

I guess I can be labeled as a hoarder if the case is buy and not use. I've been buying ammo, powder, bullets and primers for years and I still do when I find it at a price I feel is fair. I won't go into how much I own but its more than I'll probably will ever use.
buying ammo is like buying gold and packing it away. Its called survival when or if the time comes this country collapses.

sent from my RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk 2

Little late for that. You already posted a couple pictures.