AR rolls counter clock-wise when I press trigger...

[Peace]

Squared off stance, NTCh, forehand is either on VFG or covering barrel if no VFG. Right handed, right eye dominant. Tip of finger presses trigger (although it does it if I use the pad or joint as well).

When I press the trigger, I get an ever-so-slight roll of the weapon system in the counter clockwise position.... even when I soft touch it.
I don't get this with a handgun, and it seems to be my palm interacting with the top, back of the grip...

1) What might I be doing wrong?

2). Any tips on correcting it?

Shoot!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

This might be a completely wrong answer, but I once mentioned that my MSAR .223 buillpup wants to recoil slightly up and to the left, and a fella said this is because of the physics of the bullet interacting with the twist of the barrel.

[Peace]

Hmm... Thanks... This is really noticeable in dry fire practice. ??

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hmm... Thanks... This is really noticeable in dry fire practice. ??

 

Ooops, most likely not! :)

[RED333]

Squared off stance, NTCh, forehand is either on VFG or covering barrel if no VFG. Right handed, right eye dominant. Tip of finger presses trigger (although it does it if I use the pad or joint as well).

When I press the trigger, I get an ever-so-slight roll of the weapon system in the counter clockwise position.... even when I soft touch it.
I don't get this with a handgun, and it seems to be my palm interacting with the top, back of the grip...

1) What might I be doing wrong?

2). Any tips on correcting it?

Shoot!

You answered your own question, try changing the pistol grip.

[c.a.willard]

can you have a buddy take a picture of your stance with the rifle and close ups of hand positioning and positioning of the stock on the shoulder.  We may be able to give you a better idea if we can actually see what your doing.

[Peace]

Thanks guys.  pic coming tomorrow.  I changed the grip today - from a MIAD to a Troy Battle Ax CQB (original tiny one).   same thing.  Thus the thread.

 

I even took pinky finger off of the grip, etc.  It's almost like my palm/wrist want my grip to be canted out to the side.  That would stink for ambi use.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Peace

[RED333]

What about pulling the trigger with the middle pad of your finger.

Between the middle and last joint.

Try removing the trigger and "fake" a few trigger pulls and see what that does.

[Mark A]

I don't know if this will be any help or not but...

When I first got my M&P pro I noticed the sights would jump when I dry fired. I talked to Randy Lee at Apex about it & he said it was all in the trigger. No matter how calm you were or how an experienced of a shooter you were it jumped. After I put his trigger stuff in it went away. Actually, all 3 of our M&P's did that.

So all that said to wonder if a different trigger might fix it? Maybe one of Dolomite's trigger mod kits?

Mark

[Luke E.]

 I don't have much of an answer but I have the same issue with any firearm that the trigger is or breaks to close to the grip. For instance, I have no problem with a 1911 with a long trigger (not a long pull but rather a trigger that extends further towards the front of the gun) but with a Sig I had my hand was almost making a fist at the point the trigger broke and tha'ts when I was having the same issue you describe. Since then I have payed attention to every gun I have fired dry or live and without fail I get the Counterclockwise roll With any gun as described above. I don't know (I haven't tried) if there is a way to tape something along the front of the that would be sturdy enough but you might try and see if that helps any. Also, mil-spec AR triggers tend to be a little song to pull and sorta gritty so those are also things that could give problems. Good Luck

[c.a.willard]

Just out of curiosity where are you noticing the movement at.  Upper receiver, lower receiver or both.  And just to make sure i got it right you said it does this during dry fire practice too right?

 

Does it happen just with this AR or does it happen when you shoot others.  Just trying to narrow down possibilities.  

 

If you ever make it up to Clarksville I'd be glad to work with you one on one with it to figure out the issue.  If i look around my house I'm pretty sure I still have one of Dolomite's trigger kits to throw in there for ya. 

 

Not saying that will fix your problem but if you have a stock trigger its worth doing anyways.

Edited August 7, 2013 by c.a.willard

[DaveTN]

In live fire are the rounds hitting where they are supposed to?

[Peace]

Thanks all,

c.a., I see the back sight post rotating left a smidge, but it definitely originates from the grip.

Dave, yes, the rounds hit where they are supposed to, but I've not been training under duress at all.

Pic and maybe a link to a vid today.... Edited August 7, 2013 by Peace

[Jonnin]

does the gun have a heavy trigger?  That can cause the shooter to put force on the grip enough to shift.  Normally this is a pistol problem but with a pistol grip, an AR with a heavy trigger could see it.    If you have very strong hands it could be easy to apply more force than necessary, which is really the same issue. 

 

The weight of the rifle should be carried by the forward arm and your shoulder.  the trigger hand should do nothing except pull the trigger.  Try your stance without the trigger hand at all, just holding the rifle steady with foregrip and shoulder.  Then bring your hand to it and focus on a straight pull back without any force on the grip at all.   ***

 

*** I am assuming here you are going for precise shooting, not combat shooting.   For active shooting, your trigger hand probably WILL hold some of the rifle's weight, its just not easy to be mobile and active without gripping. 

[Peace]

Jonnin,
The purpose of my training/practice is geared toward an active, defensive engagement. I haven't had any issues with precision, I'm just trying to move toward a high level of proficiency, and I want to eliminate any bad habits that may have crept in.



Ok, here's the deal.

No pics possible today, but...

I can easily and reliably break the trigger without the roll. I really only notice this when I am faking multiple rounds by pressing the trigger back to it's stop (after the Hammer is down from 1st dry fire). I don't egress hard, but when I gently pull to the stop, it rolls.

It bugs the snot out of me, but it may be a non-issue. Edited August 7, 2013 by Peace

[c.a.willard]

Ok i see what your saying now and can duplicate it with my rifle.  Just to be sure it only rolls when the rifle isn't charged correct.  When you charge the rifle and dry fire it doesnt roll.  So that's your first indicator that its probably a non issue. 

 

But if im correct what is happening is your practicing rapid trigger pull on a rifle that isnt charged.  When you pull with that trigger finger in a rapid succession your entire hand is moving.  This is caused by a couple of things but the biggest two parts of it is the amount of force your gripping the pistol grip with and how much force your pulling the trigger with.  If i am correct what you are basically doing is using your trigger finger to pull your entire hand slightly forward.  Since your hand (upper part of your palm at the index finger) is being pulled into the pistol grip by your finger it is causing the rifle to roll in the opposite direction.

 

I would only be concerned if it happens during actual dry fire.

 

these three things may help you.    First don't apply much pressure at all to the pistol grip.  Your body and non firing hand should be supporting the weight of your weapon.  Your firing hand exists for one purpose.  Pulling the trigger the same way every time.

 

Second, make sure you are puling the rifle tight into your body.  It makes for a more stable platform and will minimize any movement you may be seeing.  In addition to this it will allow your body to absorb more of the recoil during rapid fire, minimize muzzle climb and all around make follow up shots easier and faster

 

3rd is to stop your particular method of dry fire practice.  Dry fire is an amazing practice tool when done correctly, but rapid pulling on the trigger of an uncharged weapon isn't giving you any training value.  At most its giving you a finger work out, but it may be training your finger to operate faster than what you can accurately.  It also doesn't allow for releasing the trigger enough for it to reset. 

 

I

[Peace]

great thoughts, c.a.

I will make a trip to Clarksville sometime and would enjoy the hang time. I am always glad to learn.

[Clod Stomper]

Like Mark A said, I'd bet it's the trigger. My very first AR would do the same thing. No matter how gently I pressed the trigger, it would jerk at the let-off. Combo of a stiff pull and then a sharp release, I guess. None others have done that for me.

A better trigger, Dolomite's trigger kit or even the "15 Minute Ar-15 Trigger Job" will probably help.