DHS story...

[Steelharp]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/dhs-ammo-grab-no-longer-conspiracy-but-plain-reality/

 

Thoughts?

[piercedan]

Obama's civilian force that is as well armed and well funded as the military. He said that's what he wanted, and he got it.

[c.a.willard]

I think that this desn't pass the logic test.  For starters we have to consider that the 1.6 billion rounds is spread out over a period of several years.    Lake city alone manufactures over 1.4 billion rounds a year themselves even prior to the ammo madness.  The U.S. ammunition market is huge.  Even taking the lowest numbers of US produced ammunition and assuming all 1.6 billion rounds ordered are supplied in one year it is still around 10 percent of the total  ammunition market.

 

The last estimate i saw with all factories running full steam ahead is roughly 1 billion rounds a week total in which case the DHS purchase would be around 3 percent of the total market.

 

Even if it was done with the intention of limiting supply the most the could hope for would to be to limit the supply over the short term.  AS with anything in capitalism demand will drive the market to produce more.  So even if the government created a false shortage eventually that shortage would be overcome by additional manufacturing. 

 

I think given that Americans were buying up roughly 1 gun every 1.5 seconds has more to do with the ammunition shortage.  That's nearly 395,000 new guns sold in the US in the last 12 months.  All these guns require ammunition along with every other gun we own.  we are creating our own ammunition shortage.  The manufacturers know it and are putting out rounds as fast as they can.  Some may even be considering using this as their opportunity to expand while others are probably reluctant to do so because eventually the ammo bubble must pop.

Edited August 5, 2013 by c.a.willard

[TrickyNicky]

Thoughts? This is a crap load of crap from crap town. I'm pretty tired of all the conspiracy crap already. It's crap like this that distracts people from the real issues this country is facing.


Sorry Mike, not trying to be an a$$ and I know that your merely asking opinions.

My opinion is this is crap.

[Steelharp]

You're not being an a$$, lol. There's a guy in another forum that's just going ape :poop:  ballistic over it, and I thought I'd post it here among cooler heads just to see opinions.

 

As for me... well, I don't know. The speculation on the present situation has been all over the map. It can get downright confusing.

 

I'm just glad I KNOW what happened to Kennedy. ;)

[scoutfsu]

Wow.  Just wow.  That opinion piece was terrible written and full of incorrect, inflammatory language designed to anger the average, ill-informed reader.  I felt like I was reading something written by Feinstein or Bloomberg.

How many times do the same "facts" need to be refuted or explained before they stick? 

[Guest nra37922]

This months Guns and Ammo has a great article related to this.  Bottom line is that guns have become a commodity item with a lot of new buyers, people are actually afraid for the safety of this families.  Add into this the panic buying that was and still is ongoing and there is a 'perfect storm' creating the shortage.  

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I think that this desn't pass the logic test.  For starters we have to consider that the 1.6 billion rounds is spread out over a period of several years.    Lake city alone manufactures over 1.4 billion rounds a year themselves even prior to the ammo madness.  The U.S. ammunition market is huge.  Even taking the lowest numbers of US produced ammunition and assuming all 1.6 billion rounds ordered are supplied in one year it is still around 10 percent of the total  ammunition market.

 

The last estimate i saw with all factories running full steam ahead is roughly 1 billion rounds a week total in which case the DHS purchase would be around 3 percent of the total market.

 

Even if it was done with the intention of limiting supply the most the could hope for would to be to limit the supply over the short term.  AS with anything in capitalism demand will drive the market to produce more.  So even if the government created a false shortage eventually that shortage would be overcome by additional manufacturing. 

 

I think given that Americans were buying up roughly 1 gun every 1.5 seconds has more to do with the ammunition shortage.  That's nearly 395,000 new guns sold in the US in the last 12 months.  All these guns require ammunition along with every other gun we own.  we are creating our own ammunition shortage.  The manufacturers know it and are putting out rounds as fast as they can.  Some may even be considering using this as their opportunity to expand while others are probably reluctant to do so because eventually the ammo bubble must pop.

No dispute with anything you said, but you left some things out of your points, also. How much production is

at 100% on a daily basis? There needs to be resources available, which there have been disruptions of, and

the shortage created by demand, based on fear from legalities coming down the legislative pike. You create a

short term bubble and you can see the effects become long term. There is a brass shortage, the material, not

the formed cases. There were production delays due to accidents( I can think of two). The potential of pending

legislation, along with the orders for replacing military stockpiles, could, with the DHS purchases, cause a

shortage. Regardless, the logic is right there, and even if there was never a shortage, it was perceived by

many. That's all it takes

 

Use the stock market as a model. There have been runs on the market that have caused blips to some, for no

valid reason. There have also been delayed inflation, like what is going on now with the printing of new bills,

not just replacing worn out money. There is proof of that when bond investors lose billions in their investments

the Federal bond market. It's called inflation. There is a shortage of powder that is delivering nothing but

hiccups in the chain of supply and demand.

 

The wholesale claims of this being a tinfoil conspiracy still continues to defy me, and logic. That article did no

more than state just what I said a little differently. With the regulations restricting the flow of ammunition stocks

and components, there has, and has been a storm brewing, whoever caused it, but the government is first

and foremost in the chain of restrictions, along with UN transportation regulations. Most of your powder comes

from overseas. If there is a limit on that flow, guess where it goes first.

 

Hey, it could all be a big joke, and could easily be the Easter Bunny, but you keep your heads in the sand.

Something other than panic buying started it.

 

It is very obvious to many that this administration wants to destroy the 2nd Amendment right, but if you wish

to say it's just a conspiracy with those tinfoil roots, keep on running with it.

 

I think there are too many around here who think everything is tinfoil and are in denial about things mainly

because they only want to think otherwise. I don't know for a fact, but since you can be convicted of murder,

based on circumstantial evidence, I choose to have an open mind. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence

to convict this administration of crimes against the Constitution, and the people, yet, we can't get a conviction.

 

I will posit that Lake City, Black Hills, and Saint Marks Powder don't run at 100% every day, except during

wartime. I'm no expert on the military, but I do know something about how markets fluctuate with government

intrusion.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Folks. I can go on for years with simple explanations how this is not necessarily a conspiracy theory, but first, you need to quit using that worn out, poorly used term: conspiracy theory. It is incorrectly used, just like many other words that have been re-defined  and codified in the new dictionaries, that are just plain wrong. A conspiracy is nothing more than two or more attempting to keep a secret from others. It can be something heinous, or it can be something else, but it can be used, nowadays, to describe almost anything you can choose to think of that fits your fancy. Kind of like Twitter. Most people who use it can't seem to spell, so they make up their own versions of words.

 

Keep on believing your fodder and keep the ratings up on Honey Boo Boo because if you choose to dismiss so easily, it will blow right by you and you will have only been caught up in the snare when your time comes.

 

Most people who seem to automatically default back to using a word like conspiracy, and tinfoil, need to look at the cause of the thought that created it and try to find valid information to refute it before they use it. Don't

live your life in denial. Question!

 

Just as the article leaves you thinking it is a rehash of old thoughts by other writers, it persists, so use something other than your anecdotal thoughts disputing something, rather than relying on our world famous media, because they haven't gotten it right for years, because they definitely have an agenda. So, if the media isn't telling you the truth, is it a conspiracy? Remember the saga of the well reported by few, of the so-called "Journolist talking points"?

 

Maybe it is just chic to call things "conspiracy" on the internet, along with the rest of the Barbara Streisand.

Edited August 5, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[DaveTN]

If you are filled full of hate for Obama and anything to do with the government it’s pretty easy to believe anything. Government buying up all the guns and ammo, Obama building a private Police Force, whatever.

 

It’s laughable. I would suggest that those that believe some of this non-sense must have their heads in the sand because the rest of us have our eyes open and have the ability to research this stuff instead of listening to Alex Jones.

 

I can buy guns and I can buy ammo in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. The people that are buying up all the ammo and reselling it are making it harder for me to find ammo at legitimate prices; but I don’t think they work for Obama.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Has nothing to do with hate, but since you mentioned it, yes, I don't care for him since he wants to take that

particular "right" away. He is on record as saying that, and many more. I suggest everyone go to Murfreesboro

to get their guns and ammo, since it appears to be the epicenter of supply. 

 

BTW, do you know of anyone who has any Golden Sabers, component, not loaded ammo? I've been looking for

quite a while.

[DaveTN]

Has nothing to do with hate, but since you mentioned it, yes, I don't care for him since he wants to take that

particular "right" away. He is on record as saying that, and many more. I suggest everyone go to Murfreesboro

to get their guns and ammo, since it appears to be the epicenter of supply. 

 

BTW, do you know of anyone who has any Golden Sabers, component, not loaded ammo? I've been looking for

quite a while.

I’m sure I hate Obama as much or more than you. But there is plenty of stuff to accuse him of without making stuff up. It makes him appear to be right and the accusers to look like fools when it is proven wrong.

 

The gun issue got Americans to take their eye off the ball; Obama wants to keep it going. Obama was going to help the economy and create jobs; he has done neither. But it is what it is; he can’t be reelected. We need to be focused on who is running next and how we will get our people to vote. I suspect that as in the last two elections we will be split while those living off the government are united.

 

BTW.. I didn’t say Murfreesboro was the epicenter of ammo; but I can get it if I don’t care what I pay. I’m sure I could get any components you want if price is no object; as I’m sure you could also.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Problem is, I never said I hated anyone, Dave. If I did, I wouldn't like many of your comments, and I like some

of yours, also.

 

It was the gun issue, the shenanigans used to pass Obamacare, Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Newtown, green

energy scam, the Joker, lady congresswoman being shot, Major Nidal Hassan(formerly, rejected his citizenship, I hear), rejecting Israel, pumping of money to stop banking crisis, and so on. All of these must only be conspiracies, I guess.

 

The many things I do hate about him are his political ideology, his actions, or inactions, his allowing our precious

military and civilian assets to be killed off without backing them up, the robbing of our childrens' future, and more

of that on and on. But that doesn't mean anything. I'm just a conspiracy theorist.

 

This ammunition story is only one more symptom in a long line of more circumstantial evidence, which is much

more deadly to our country than anything Richard Nixon did to our country. He tops anything that Bill Clinton

did, also.

Edited August 5, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[RichardR]

I think the main problem with this sort of things is that "the answer" isn't ever being given by the administration in a straight forward truthful way.

This leads to suspicion & speculation, distrust, even conspiracy theorizing.

Who's fault is it? The administration for denying & lying about everything? Or the people's fault for thinking a corrupt administration is up to something sinister?

All I know is the truth isn't being told & I don't trust folks who don't trust me.

[Joseg]

<grabs tin foil hat>  :stir:

[TrickyNicky]

I think the main problem with this sort of things is that "the answer" isn't ever being given by the administration in a straight forward truthful way.
This leads to suspicion & speculation, distrust, even conspiracy theorizing.
Who's fault is it? The administration for denying & lying about everything? Or the people's fault for thinking a corrupt administration is up to something sinister?
All I know is the truth isn't being told & I don't trust folks who don't trust me.

Well there's also the additional problem that even if the gov were to come out and factually and truthfully put these issues to bed, who would believe them?

[Paladin132]

I think that this desn't pass the logic test.  For starters we have to consider that the 1.6 billion rounds is spread out over a period of several years.    Lake city alone manufactures over 1.4 billion rounds a year themselves even prior to the ammo madness.  The U.S. ammunition market is huge.  Even taking the lowest numbers of US produced ammunition and assuming all 1.6 billion rounds ordered are supplied in one year it is still around 10 percent of the total  ammunition market.

 

The last estimate i saw with all factories running full steam ahead is roughly 1 billion rounds a week total in which case the DHS purchase would be around 3 percent of the total market.

 

Even if it was done with the intention of limiting supply the most the could hope for would to be to limit the supply over the short term.  AS with anything in capitalism demand will drive the market to produce more.  So even if the government created a false shortage eventually that shortage would be overcome by additional manufacturing. 

 

I think given that Americans were buying up roughly 1 gun every 1.5 seconds has more to do with the ammunition shortage.  That's nearly 395,000 new guns sold in the US in the last 12 months.  All these guns require ammunition along with every other gun we own.  we are creating our own ammunition shortage.  The manufacturers know it and are putting out rounds as fast as they can.  Some may even be considering using this as their opportunity to expand while others are probably reluctant to do so because eventually the ammo bubble must pop.

Michael Bane said something similar to this a few podcasts back. He said that with all the new gun owners you have that many folks buying what goes with a new firearm - ammunition to shoot with, and probably to put some back as well. Once you think about that with all the new firearms owners I think we have a simple supply and demand issue. 

[Guest ThePunisher]

Now, before everyone goes to believing all these conspiracy theories, Obama said that these are just phony scandals conjured up by the Republicans. If Obama said that there are no scandals, then it must be true. Now everybody just relax, and believe our great telepromter communicator. After all, he wants to bring us all into harmonious unity.

[TMF]

Now, before everyone goes to believing all these conspiracy theories, Obama said that these are just phony scandals conjured up by the Republicans. If Obama said that there are no scandals, then it must be true. Now everybody just relax, and believe our great telepromter communicator. After all, he wants to bring us all into harmonious unity.

So if someone is skeptical over a improbable theory they are drinking the Obama Kool Aid? Is that what you're implying?

[Guest ThePunisher]

So if someone is skeptical over a improbable theory they are drinking the Obama Kool Aid? Is that what you're implying?

Well, I would say that over half of the people that vote, have been drinking the Obama Kool Aid. All these scandals have got to be Bush's fault, and Obama's administration has been the most transparent in US history, b/c he promised the country when he was campaigning that his administration would be transparent. No secrets and scandals in his four and half years of Presidency; just phony scandals conjured up from the mean Tea Partiers and R's.

[c.a.willard]

The right shoots itself in the foot over real scandals in the administration.  They do it every time they say something like this is a scandal while talking simultaneous about real ones. 

 

It causes people that we should be trying to sway to be alienated and makes the right look like a bunch of idiots.