80% build party in Chattanooga. Let's make it happen!

[tnguy]

Cool. I'll make it "NO SERIAL". Should be fun if it ever needs to be communicated over the phone.

[Luke E.]

 I like the idea of having a numberless gun but it would be awful hard to spend the money on an 80%, jig and whatever tooling needed when you could snag one of these for $75 http://www.surplusammo.com/aero-precision-x-15-stripped-ar15-lower-receiver-new-1/ .

[tnguy]

I think I'll go ahead and order up five and the jig. I'll probably lend out the jig for a deposit.

[Luke E.]

I think I'll go ahead and order up five and the jig. I'll probably lend out the jig for a deposit.

 

 I have a lathe and a mill but I have never set them up due to getting married and moving away from my shop. I've got a nice converted milk barn (concrete floor in one room and carpet in the other as well as sheet rocked walls etc...) but due to it being on the backside of the property and being worried about thieves, i've never felt comfortable moving expensive machines and tools into it before. Last week I picked up a security system for the shop so as soon as I get it wired up I will start moving equipment in. I probably am not going to be finishing out any 80% lowers anytime soon but if I have it all set up by the time you and others get ready to finish out your lowers, you're more than welcome to use my place and machines to do the work.   

[Guest Keal G Seo]

 I like the idea of having a numberless gun but it would be awful hard to spend the money on an 80%, jig and whatever tooling needed when you could snag one of these for $75 http://www.surplusammo.com/aero-precision-x-15-stripped-ar15-lower-receiver-new-1/ .

Gotta think, Good deal (without bulk) on 80's is between 75-100. Jigs can be had for about 100. A drill press mill can be set up for under 100. So 300 and you can have a new gun project AND tools. :) The "and tools" part is what gets most of us into it. The serial-less gun being a bonus since most people building an 80 already have ARs.

[tnguy]

I do not yet have an AR but I do have the parts from the group buy on order.

 

I only have a drill press, not a mill. But I hear it can be done with the press (in fact, I have seen where someone did it with hand tools only). I would like a mill. In fact, I was considering setting up a mill with CNC and having a go at milling my own lowers but that was probably one of those pie-in-the-sky ideas.

[Luke E.]

Gotta think, Good deal (without bulk) on 80's is between 75-100. Jigs can be had for about 100. A drill press mill can be set up for under 100. So 300 and you can have a new gun project AND tools. :) The "and tools" part is what gets most of us into it. The serial-less gun being a bonus since most people building an 80 already have ARs.

Pulling it off with a $100 drill press will be the tough part. I'm not saying it can't be done but there's usually a lot more flex involved with even fairly expensive drill presses than most can deal with. I've seen the videos showing ruined lowers. I guess one would just have to be mighty careful.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

On another forum years ago I was asking about using a drill press and my X-Y vise to mill aluminum, and the machinists cautioned that it would ruin the bearings in the drill press, not do a very good job, and sooner or later the chuck will fall off during machining and unerringly get you in the balls.

But I dunno if their advice was true. Maybe it would work great.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Well yeah if you have the money to drop on an actual mill it is tool well worth having. Budget minded is where I was heading with that one though. You can pick up a low end mill from say HF for about 600, I think. Nice name brand one is gonna run 1.5-6k though.

[tnguy]

The HF mill can be had for around 400 if you keep your eyes open for the offers and coupons.

[Luke E.]

Well yeah if you have the money to drop on an actual mill it is tool well worth having. Budget minded is where I was heading with that one though. You can pick up a low end mill from say HF for about 600, I think. Nice name brand one is gonna run 1.5-6k though.

A Harbor Freight mill is still a mill and for occasional recreational use such as finishing a lower from time to time would be just fine. The problem is with a drill press (unless you have a large and in most cases expensive) is the column is only made to handle downward pressure and even then some have a fair bit of play. When you start introducing side to side pressure on them, not only do you have free play to contend with but you also have a fair bit of column flex and between the flex and free play you have no way to ensure that you stick with the dimensions. The tooling will cut through the jig about as easy as it will the receiver. This doesn't address accelerated wear on the machine.
I'm in no way saying that you cannot turn out a functional lower using a light drill press but it will take great time and patience and even then, I have seen quite a number of people that have ruined lowers in the process.
I wish everyone the best of luck with the process and the offer to use my place to finish them is still out there.

[tnguy]

I'd be up for that. I'm not sure when I'll put an order in. It's subject to funds and I have the TGO group buy to be going on with but I'll make sure to mention it.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I've wanted a minimill for years. Lots of companies sell the same model as is sold by hf, different price and quality levels within params of the same machine. Actually while wishing, I'd rather have one of those $10,000 little machine shop cnc mills. Well, it would be !0,000 or more after getting all the necessary and desirable doo-dads.

I have to find more tool room before getting a mill. Even the mini mill is too heavy for an old guy to store on a shelf and move to the workbench when needed. Needs space for its own bench. Been working on cleaning out the old shop, maybe one of these days.

The micro mill IS small and light enough to store on a shelf and put on the bench when needed. Am guessing a micromill would be adequate to work on lowers. But they are, well, kinda small. A mini mill is just barely big enough for some of the things I might like to do.

My chinese x-y drill press vise isn't very precise. Has lots of slop and backlash. Maybe it could be disassembled and tightened up.

My rotozip, or any router really, has bearings that should handle the sideways pressures of milling, at least with conservative feed rates. One time I tried using wood blocks and pipe clamps to mount the rotozip to an old drill press stand (where the drill press head died) and experimentally mill some small things with the x-y vise. It didn't work very well, lots of chatter.

Many youtube videos of homemade cnc mills using rotozip or router heads, even dremel heads. With frames of bolted together aluminum or wood. Makes me wonder how the heck they get everything tight and rigid enough to work worth a darn.

[Luke E.]

 Machining equipment is tough to buy. When I started looking I was interested in the mini-small machines to make smaller motorcycle parts on but as you look and get deeper into it you find that you are no longer looking at the mini to small sizes and heck you're not even looking at medium sizes, you're looking at full blown commecial machines.. Once I got myself back under control I ended up with medium (or what I consider medium) machines. I decided that I really didn't want to fool with 3phase so that drew a line in the sand right off the bat and helped to keep me focused on machines in my price range. Like I mentioned above, I've never gotten these set up but part of me is still afraid that i'm going to wish for a little more. I am itching to get it all going and even more ready to fill out forms to build my own can and eventually a lower from scratch.

[tnguy]

What are the forms for?

[seez52]

Drill presses will literally come apart when putting side loads on them. Trust me.

[Luke E.]

What are the forms for?

 

 I guess that kinda blended in with the from scratch lower. Rather than fill out the form for your tax stamp to purchase a suppressor I would like to be able to manufacture my own suppressor but it still requires a stamp which comes with the same long wait that buying one from a shop comes with. Kinda goes along with the machining a lower thing, Just something to be said for doing it yourself.

[tnguy]

Ah. I was not familiar with the use of "can" for suppressor (Though I had a sneaking suspicion). Thanks.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

 Machining equipment is tough to buy. When I started looking I was interested in the mini-small machines to make smaller motorcycle parts on but as you look and get deeper into it you find that you are no longer looking at the mini to small sizes and heck you're not even looking at medium sizes, you're looking at full blown commecial machines.. Once I got myself back under control I ended up with medium (or what I consider medium) machines. I decided that I really didn't want to fool with 3phase so that drew a line in the sand right off the bat and helped to keep me focused on machines in my price range. Like I mentioned above, I've never gotten these set up but part of me is still afraid that i'm going to wish for a little more. I am itching to get it all going and even more ready to fill out forms to build my own can and eventually a lower from scratch.

 

Which one did you get? Got a web link? How much does it weigh?

 

Perhaps one advantage of any but the smallest machine lathes and mills, is that one might not be too concerned about theft, unless the thief arrives in the dead of night with several big burly fellas and a forklift strapped to a flatbed truck. :)

 

Other than financial concerns, that's my biggest hurdle. I've read that especially up north, so many machine shops have gone belly up that sometimes you can get nice big mills and lathes free or nearly free if you can haul em off, but getting a beast weighing 1000 pounds up to WAY HEAVIER into my shop would be a serious science project, and wherever it is installed better be the right place because it would be a PITA to move it somewhere else.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[Luke E.]

Which one did you get? Got a web link? How much does it weigh?

Perhaps one advantage of any but the smallest machine lathes and mills, is that one might not be too concerned about theft, unless the thief arrives in the dead of night with several big burly fellas and a forklift strapped to a flatbed truck. :)

Other than financial concerns, that's my biggest hurdle. I've read that especially up north, so many machine shops have gone belly up that sometimes you can get nice big mills and lathes free or nearly free if you can haul em off, but getting a beast weighing 1000 pounds up to WAY HEAVIER into my shop would be a serious science project, and wherever it is installed better be the right place because it would be a PITA to move it somewhere else.

To be completely honest, I'd have to dig out my manuals or go out to my shop on the family's land to look and see what size they are. I bought them 2yrs ago and they've been in storage every since.
They are pretty heavy though, 4 guys could carry the lathe but the mill would be the tough one. It is a fairly large bench top mill but the bench had sure better be heavy duty. As far as moving it with man power goes, I'm not sure how that would work. I don't think there is enough places to grab to get enough men involved to get the job done. I've got one of the extending forklifts so I just eased them off of the trailer and poked them through the door and the I used a heavy duty engine hoist to move them into place. Even with the forklift it was a lot of "fun".
I probably would have gone with older American made machines but these were presented to me at a cheap price and they maybe had 15-20hrs use split between the two of them so it was hard to pass up. They came with quite a bit of extras to so that just helped the deal along.
One thing I will pass on to you is this, when I started looking, I went and chatted with a friend of mine that runs a fairly large machine shop about what I wanted. At the time I was stuck on old American made unit because like you said, they can be found reasonable up north. He told me that most any of them that a company, even if they are out of business, would be trying to sell for cheap are probably very worn or else someone much closer to them would have bought them. Some of the nicer more well kept machines I looked at with him were the most worn. Not worn from abuse but just normal heavy use. This was one reason I decide to go with new or almost new import machines that way I at least knew what I was getting. I've haven't had the chance to use them yet so I can't comment on whether that was the right decision or not but that's where I ended up.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Buying nearly new, import stuff sounds reasonable. The people I've conversed with online with the giant "nearly free" industrial-rot machine tools, knew enough sheets from shinola to recondition the tools themselves, but I wouldn't be so lucky, knowing next to nothing about it. Even wheelbarrows are a mechanical challenge to me.

 

Some of the "somewhat heavy" tools like a big bandsaw or drill press, could be un-crated in the truck and hauled one lighter piece at a time, but dunno how many manageable-weight parts are in a "small-to-medium-sized" 500 or 750 pound lathe or mill. My minilathe I was able to get it out of the truck and up on its toolstand without assistance, but even the mini-mill is lots heavier and would need at least one fella to help, unless it comes out of the box in lots of small parts.

[Luke E.]

Buying nearly new, import stuff sounds reasonable. The people I've conversed with online with the giant "nearly free" industrial-rot machine tools, knew enough sheets from shinola to recondition the tools themselves, but I wouldn't be so lucky, knowing next to nothing about it. Even wheelbarrows are a mechanical challenge to me.

 

Some of the "somewhat heavy" tools like a big bandsaw or drill press, could be un-crated in the truck and hauled one lighter piece at a time, but dunno how many manageable-weight parts are in a "small-to-medium-sized" 500 or 750 pound lathe or mill. My minilathe I was able to get it out of the truck and up on its toolstand without assistance, but even the mini-mill is lots heavier and would need at least one fella to help, unless it comes out of the box in lots of small parts.

 

 Well not to be the bearer of bad news but they really don't break down into manual pieces. Also some of those machines don't have real good parts availability so one would have to know a fair bit machining skills to make the parts themselves. 

 This was told to me and I will pass it along, machines are like gun safes, buy twice what you think you need. Point being, if you buy one to machine lowers on you will soon want to do something twice the size of an AR lower. There is a point of no return though and that could very easily be the point at which you can't move it into your shop. I've always been pretty good about getting things into places that they shouldn't fit so if you need a hand just let me know.

[Guest ComeAtMeBro]

Hey everyone - long-time reader, 1st time poster.  This thread is the sole reason why I chose to create an account.  Have y'all made any progress towards making this happen?  I'm sure someone knows someone who works at or owns a machine shop.  All we would have to do is "rent" time and have someone there who knows the CNC machine to guide each of us through the steps.  I've got a few friends in California, and this is how they go about finishing their 80%ers.  Using a drill press to finish a receiver is like using a butter knife to cut a ribeye.  That's just my 2 cents.  I'll hang up and listen.

[tnguy]

A Harbor Freight mill is still a mill and for occasional recreational use such as finishing a lower from time to time would be just fine. The problem is with a drill press (unless you have a large and in most cases expensive) is the column is only made to handle downward pressure and even then some have a fair bit of play. When you start introducing side to side pressure on them, not only do you have free play to contend with but you also have a fair bit of column flex and between the flex and free play you have no way to ensure that you stick with the dimensions. The tooling will cut through the jig about as easy as it will the receiver. This doesn't address accelerated wear on the machine.
I'm in no way saying that you cannot turn out a functional lower using a light drill press but it will take great time and patience and even then, I have seen quite a number of people that have ruined lowers in the process.
I wish everyone the best of luck with the process and the offer to use my place to finish them is still out there.

 

 

Still on the fence on this one. I am not concerned about damage to the drill press in the slightest but damage to the self and work piece are not good. Most notably I am not sure my chuck is seated as good as it could be.

 

I may get some Al stock and practice a little.

[tnguy]

80% christmas sale at tactical machining.

 

http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80percentreceiver-christmas-sale.html