Virginia Drops Reciprocity With Tennessee

[Fallguy]

I think this all comes down to situations changing and the law not following suit.

Since TN now recognizes any other states permit/license I don't think, in general, it enters into written reciprocity agreements anymore.

Here is the relevant law to this whole situation.

39-17-1351

®(3)©(i) If a person who is a resident of and handgun permit holder in another state is employed in this state on a regular basis and desires to carry a handgun in this state, the person shall have six (6) months from the last day of the sixth month of regular employment in this state to obtain a Tennessee handgun carry permit. The permit may be issued based on the person having a permit from another state provided the other state has substantially similar permit eligibility requirements as this state. However, if during the six-month period the person applies for a handgun permit in this state and the application is denied, the person shall not be allowed to carry a handgun in this state based upon the other state's permit.

(ii)

The provisions of this subdivision ®(3)© shall not apply if the state of residence of the person employed in Tennessee has entered into a handgun permit reciprocity agreement with this state pursuant to this subsection ®.

(iii)

As used in this subdivision ®(3)©, “employed in this state on a regular basis” means a person has been gainfully employed in this state for at least thirty (30) hours a week for six (6) consecutive months not counting any absence from employment caused by the employee's use of sick leave, annual leave, administrative leave or compensatory time.

Seems to me 39-17-1351®(3)©(i) was for back before TN recognized all permits. It was a way to allow someone with an out of state permit to apply for a TN permit if they worked here, even if they lived in a state that TN didn't recognize at the time. Because 39-17-1351®(3)©(ii) says they did not have to apply for a TN permit is the had a permit for a state that TN had reciprocity (before TN recognized all permits) with.

Now that TN recognizes all permit, without reciprocity, it would seem to me this part of the law needs to be removed.

[Fallguy]

Hmmmmmm......

I still think it needs to be changed, but if the legal eagles of VA and TN can get together...I think that even with present wording someone who lives in VA, has a VA permit and works in TN would be valid and hopefully therefore a TN permit be valid in TN.

39-17-1351®(3)©(ii) The provisions of this subdivision ®(3)© shall not apply if the state of residence of the person employed in Tennessee has entered into a handgun permit reciprocity agreement with this state pursuant to this subsection ®.

39-17-1351®(1) A facially valid handgun permit, firearms permit, weapons permit or license issued by another state shall be valid in this state according to its terms and shall be treated as if it is a handgun permit issued by this state; provided, however, the provisions of this subsection ® shall not be construed to authorize the holder of any out-of-state permit or license to carry, in this state, any firearm or weapon other than a handgun.

39-17-1351®(1) says all other state permits are good in TN, so that would seem to statisfy the provision of 39-17-1351®(3)©(ii), if they want it to at least.

[Guest janwbrown616]

I use the Retired LEO provision under federal law. Does not matter to me if they do or not.

[Marswolf]

I use the Retired LEO provision under federal law. Does not matter to me if they do or not.

Boy, that's really big of you.

[Guest canynracer]

Boy, that's really big of you.

+1

[Guest 270win]

Arkansas pulled a stunt a couple of years ago dropping Florida as a reciprocal state and then FL did the same thing to AR. It took a few days to get whatever the problem AR had with FL sorted out.

We don't have a terrible amount to lose by TN permits not being honored in VA right now because we can legally open carry in public and in the car when visiting the state. You can also get a cheap Pennsylvania license that is good in Virginia.

[Guest grimel]

I use the Retired LEO provision under federal law. Does not matter to me if they do or not.

Yup, really shows just how much the you guys help us get LEO carry passed and we'll help you.

Attitudes like this make me regret pushing for federal LEO carry.

[Guest Legally Armed]

Broken link for Virginia Reciprocity article.

Correct link: http://legallyarmed.com/resources/virginiareciprocity.htm

Sorry.

[Fallguy]

Broken link for Virginia Reciprocity article.

Correct link: http://legallyarmed.com/resources/virginiareciprocity.htm

Sorry.

From the above article:

Although Virginia allows 'open' carry, municipalities may have local codes that will not allow carrying a loaded handgun in a vehicle. If traveling in Virginia, contact the county or municipality you are traveling into, to check on this issue. Here is a link that might help with 'open' carry in Virginia:

http://opencarry.org/

According to the

VA Page on Opencarry.org VA has complete state preemtion of firearm laws. I was curious about the source of info on local regulations on vehicle carry. Hopefully this matter will be cleared up soon though and make it moot.

[Guest Boomhower]

Boy, that's really big of you.

hehe

[Guest goomba]

Yup, really shows just how much the you guys help us get LEO carry passed and we'll help you.

Attitudes like this make me regret pushing for federal LEO carry.

Why? all they are saying is that this thread is not relevant to them b/c they fall under another law. attitudes like this, are not good for Permit holders or for gun owners in general.

I do however, hope VA puts us back on the list... I do have friends in VA I try to go see every so often. & I prefer to CC when traveling.

[robbiev]

Why? all they are saying is that this thread is not relevant to them b/c they fall under another law.

I believe the comments others made were in reference to the (possible) implication of "I don't care what happens to YOU (non-LEOs) because *I* don't have to worry about it."

I don't know if that is what the poster meant, but I believe that's the some perceived it.

[jughead]

I believe the comments others made were in reference to the (possible) implication of "I don't care what happens to YOU (non-LEOs) because *I* don't have to worry about it."

I don't know if that is what the poster meant, but I believe that's the some perceived it.

then he should clear it up because that is how this old man read it. put a bad light on leos for me

[Guest Legally Armed]

From article:

"Although Virginia allows 'open' carry, municipalities may have local codes that will not allow carrying a loaded handgun in a vehicle. If traveling in Virginia, contact the county or municipality you are traveling into, to check on this issue."

Was advised by Virginia State Police Captain at Virginia State Headquaters, that some local municipalities around where he lives, do not allow loaded handguns in vehicles while in their region. He advised that a person can carry in the 'open' while out of the vehicle but, cannot carry a loaded handgun in the vehicle without authorization ( I.e. license or permit ).

Don't know if this is correct but, he probably has more correct information than I about 'open' carry in his home state. Even so, I listed the website of opencarry.org as an additional source. My concern is Tennessee Handgun Permit Holders who live around Bristol, Jefferson City, Kingsport, and other areas in the Tri-Cities region. Some travel into Virginia every day to work. Asked V.S.P. Capt., what could happen if a Tennessee resident who has a Tennessee Handgun Permit and was stopped for a traffic violation and the Virginia officer called in to make sure Virginia honors the TN Handgun Permit. He said until this situation is resolved, the person would probably have the handgun taken from them, charged, and would loose their TN Handgun Permit. Could happen. The faster this situation is resolved, the better for TN Handgun Permit Holders.

[Fallguy]

The faster this situation is resolved, the better for TN Handgun Permit Holders.

AMEN!!

[mhm2a]

Agreed +1

[robbiev]

...that is how this old man read it. put a bad light on leos for me

and that's what my post said.

[Guest janwbrown616]

OK, guys, beat me with a tire iron...

What I meant is that VA or TX or whoever can make all the restrictions they want and it will not change my carry. I believe that the States that treat CCW as "would be criminals" are pretty backwards. If some of their lawmakers ever stared down the barrel of a gun from some BG, they might change their minds IF they survived.

I think it's a shame VA has done it, and,I'dl do anything to help change it back. There are not enough LEGAL and responsible CCWs.

As for my attitude, I worked a long time as an LEO 12 years in GA and 21 years in Federal. You make a lot of enemies during that time. I EARNED the right to carry in VA or anywhere else and VA cannot take that away from me. (And, that is what I meant by does not matter to me). I respect each and everyone of you guys. You carry for protection and most of you would not hesitate to assist if needed. You can bet, just as in the past 33 years I WILL be there if you need it.

And, it's not just federal LEO Carry. Under the law ALL LEOs retired in good standing can carry....

Edited August 19, 2008 by janwbrown616

[Guest RedDog]

I have a TN HCP and concealed carried in VA all of this past weekend thinking I was legal. What happened?

[Guest Legally Armed]

Additional up-date on Virginia reciprocal issue. On hotel computer with people waiting, so here is the link:

http://legallyarmed.com/resources/virginiareciprocity.htm

Up-date at bottom of article.

[Volzfan]

Additional up-date on Virginia reciprocal issue. On hotel computer with people waiting, so here is the link:

http://legallyarmed.com/resources/virginiareciprocity.htm

Up-date at bottom of article.

That is good that the problem should be resolved very soon even though I'm not planning on being in VA anytime soon.

[Guest Crunchman]

Sounds good. My wife's folks live in the Lexington, Va. area and we're going for her family reunion the last of this month. I didn't like the idea of traveling through the state unarmed.

[Fallguy]

Sounds good. My wife's folks live in the Lexington, Va. area and we're going for her family reunion the last of this month. I didn't like the idea of traveling through the state unarmed.

Well if for some reason it's not worked out by then (although it should be) don't go unarmed....just OC.

[waynesan]

OK, guys, beat me with a tire iron...

What I meant is that VA or TX or whoever can make all the restrictions they want and it will not change my carry. I believe that the States that treat CCW as "would be criminals" are pretty backwards. If some of their lawmakers ever stared down the barrel of a gun from some BG, they might change their minds IF they survived.

I think it's a shame VA has done it, and,I'dl do anything to help change it back. There are not enough LEGAL and responsible CCWs.

As for my attitude, I worked a long time as an LEO 12 years in GA and 21 years in Federal. You make a lot of enemies during that time. I EARNED the right to carry in VA or anywhere else and VA cannot take that away from me. (And, that is what I meant by does not matter to me). I respect each and everyone of you guys. You carry for protection and most of you would not hesitate to assist if needed. You can bet, just as in the past 33 years I WILL be there if you need it.

And, it's not just federal LEO Carry. Under the law ALL LEOs retired in good standing can carry....

Works for me janwbrown616

Also, good job legally armed. Good job on getting the facts.

[Guest goomba]

There seems to have been a question by Virginia based on the State of Tennessee website regarding reciprocity with Virginia.

Now tell me who forgot to call the state of TN before changing the info on the VSP website?