Think it can't happen in our country?

[RobertNashville]

I don't think we have a couple of election cycles left from the standpoint of changing our current course.

 

They're coming for your mind now....http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/30/govt-knows-best-white-house-creates-nudge-squad-to-shape-behavior/

I don't think we have time left either; the train has left the station and is heading full-steam for the ravine where the bridge is out.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Who knows...we might have gotten some real healthcare insurance reform that made a positive difference.

 

McCain is enough of a political animal that he likely would have at least gone along with a decent idea had it been presented to him (but I doubt he would have spearheaded anything like that).

 

Most of us know we have some serious problems with how healthcare is delivered and especially how it's paid for; it needs some reform - just not s government takeover.

 

Hi Robert

 

At the most basic level, the institution of health insurance itself, plus the law requiring anyone to be treated regardless of ability to pay, kinda tends toward severe medical inflation? OTOH, would wager that a well-done competent unbiased survey of USA citizens would return a result barely in the single digits of citizens who believe that penniless people should be allowed to bleed out without treatment on the emergency room lobby floor. So even the most basic laws that most everybody agrees on "in principle" do seem to make the problem of affordability worse, for people who have sufficient assets to be hounded by debt collectors, and who therefore have to pay their own bills?

 

However, I somehow got the impression that you are actually educated about medical cost policy and much more competent to discuss the details than I. (am not being sarcastic by the way)

 

It might break tenets in the imprecise science of alternate history, to posit that McCain won but all other elections would have turned out exactly the same. An alternate timeline where McCain won, would most likely be a timeline where more republicans were elected to congress in that same cycle. Except for remarkably rare random quantum space-time fluctuations-- Perhaps 48 hours before election day, Obama gets caught on camera having romantic relations with a sheep. :) That might result in the same congressional makeup with the only difference being a president McCain at the helm.

 

But consider-- I was somewhat in favor of republicans in the lame duck days of clinton, and definitely considered them the lesser of two evils in the early years of the Bush Jr. regime. But Bush's RINO hide became ever more obvious approaching 2004, and in the 2004 and especially 2006 eras, R congresscritters were bending over backwards doing dumb stuff to make liberals love them, which made libertarians and conservatives (their bread and butter voter backbone) tend to stay home and spurn the RINO stampede. Remember which party passed Medicare Drug benefit then bragged like they just accomplished something conservative and fiscally responsible? Hint: Twarnt the democrats.

 

During the lead-up to passage of Obamacare, I recall the majority of R congresscritters supporting SOME kind of law, just not the DEMOCRAT version of the law. By definition any D idea equals bad and any RINO idea equals good. So after Obama gets caught with a sheep and McCain finds himself reaching across the aisle to a Pelosi House and a Reid Senate-- All the RINO leadership believes that they saved another election cycle by being more liberal than the liberals, and they therefore conclude that being more liberal than democrats is a winning strategy-- OF COURSE there would have been some kind of health care law, which would have likely been just as stupid as the one we got. Just a slightly different brand of stupid.

 

But with McCain at the helm the law might have been strikingly similar. If RINO's proposed enforced coverage or even single-payer, rather than Democrats proposing the same-- By definition it would suddenly have been a wonderful idea because a RINO thunk it up. And with D-controlled congress, all the stupid D ideas wouldn't have been diluted very much, and a great deal of that would have made it into the bill to ensure passage.

[RobertNashville]

As I recall, there were some good (and some not so good) proposals from Republicans during the Obama/Pelosi/Schumer's rush to give us socialized healthcare but all those proposals were non-starters because the Democrats didn't need a single Republican vote to pass whatever they wanted.

 

There are problems in our health care system/health care insurance system that needs to be addressed; most of which can trace the roots of the problem back to some form of government intervention, but it could have been solved in a good way rather than socializing us with a Canada-style system.

 

I sort of doubt that "healthcare" would even have been discussed under McCain as it was an issue near and dear most to Obama and Pelosi and the Democrats; more likely, it would never have come up...that wouldn't have addressed the problems we have but nothing would have been far better than something in this case.

 

I had some ideas for changes that I think would have been good (although my libertarian friends would not have liked them)...essentially we needed to get both government AND employers out of the health care insurance business and put the provider and the payee back together again but, because government has been involved for so long, it would have to be done over time and with some "government requirements" (which is where I'd lose the libertarians :) ).

[Worriedman]

Hi Robert

 

At the most basic level, the institution of health insurance itself, plus the law requiring anyone to be treated regardless of ability to pay, kinda tends toward severe medical inflation? OTOH, would wager that a well-done competent unbiased survey of USA citizens would return a result barely in the single digits of citizens who believe that penniless people should be allowed to bleed out without treatment on the emergency room lobby floor.

Lester,

 

What the people want is immaterial, the government has the guns.

The government will only be concerned with keeping alive those who can vote for a long time.  Old codgers have money in the bank they can take, so they will drop them off the edge so they can take their homes and goods, and will reduce the amount of outlay via Medicare and Social Security.

[wjh2657]

The economy tanked because of business practices and Banks turning into casinos (all over the world, not just the USA). The government exacerbated the problem with massive bailouts, started under a Republican President and  continued by a Democrat President. Neither party has any desire to fix anything. The goal here is to seize as much power and money as you can with your elected office. Until the U.S. comes up with a viable third party and dismantles the Rep and Dem parties we are stuck with chaos. Your votes don't matter and your opinions are worthless. We are the "little People" of Romney's country club set and we just don't count.

 

I was a Republican for 40+ years but now I am just an American and I don't like or trust either party.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

Not only can it happen here but I'm convinced that it will happen here...the only real unknown for me at this point is "when".

 

That's one of the reasons, as I've shard in some other threads, that "who" runs or gets elected in 2014 or beyond is really immaterial at this because it's too late to change that. Our currency is backed by nothing except a promise to pay but we can't pay...we can't even limit our spending to our tax revenues. Between spending over 140% percent of revenues and monetizing our debt it's a house of cards that must collapse

Sadly I think that might be the case unless serious changes are made. 

 

We are going to spend fortunes on amnesty yet democrats and a few sell out republicans are trying to do it not figuring on the reproduction and public assistance consumption rates of many who would benefit

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If you say your votes don't matter, you've given up. If you don't become engaged in the process, it will never change.

If you want libertarian politics to enter into the arena, get off your ass and make it happen. Just sitting in an internet

forum saying things like "votes don't matter" implies the game is lost and no further action is necessary, so put your

shackles on and submit to your master. You're partly there, so just go on and end it.

 

 

All that kind of talk implies arrogance and stupidity at the same time. I strongly suspect there will be a serious conflict,

not too far down the road, but giving up just to wait for it is cowardice. There are plenty of things wrong with our society

today, and they are linked to so many things, but when you give up, you might as well be dead.

 

Some kind of example for our kids to grow up by, isn't it? There are way too many people who are always sitting on the

sideline, making themselves into some kind of pundit, without portfolio, and all they do is infuriate people who happen to

give a damn. Maybe I am only having a Pollyanna moment, but if you love your country, you might consider something

different than just crying based on the nightly news.

 

More people being proactive is what this country needs right now, not more blase' cynicism. Well, at least more proactivity

with reason and logic thrown in. Cynicism is a poor excuse for emotion.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Sorry, but that's all the emotions I plan on displaying today.