Glock 19 vs Beretta 92FS

[TMF]

We're saying the same thing :). The 1911 is the exception, unless you get into esoteric guns.

The best is manipulating the safety on a Beretta 1959. Can't be done without taking one hand off the pistol.

[Jonnin]

Glock 19, no external safety to worry about under pressure.  Any firearm with an external safety is IMHO not a suitable for daily carry.

 

I would agree with this if the no-safety guns had good triggers, but none of them do.  So the choice is a bad trigger or a safety, and people pick which of those 2 they prefer.

[TMF]

I would agree with this if the no-safety guns had good triggers, but none of them do.  So the choice is a bad trigger or a safety, and people pick which of those 2 they prefer.

I didn't like the trigger on Glocks up until I drank the Kool Aid. Now, I dig it.

[Jonnin]

I didn't like the trigger on Glocks up until I drank the Kool Aid. Now, I dig it.

 

Kool aid aside,  like it or not,  all that is fine.  But what gets me, in these conversations, is you will have (if not the same person, the same page) the following two mutex statements :P

 

1) the glock is better because the trigger pull on the first shot is not different from the rest like a DA/SA blah blah.

2) you have to learn the reset and not let the trigger all the way out after the first shot.....  

 

One of those 2 already made it in the discussion. 

[monkeylizard]

I would agree with this if the no-safety guns had good triggers, but none of them do.  So the choice is a bad trigger or a safety, and people pick which of those 2 they prefer.

 

I disagree. The Kahr PM9 is smooth like butter and has no external safety. A little longer on the reset than a Glock, but a nice feel to it.

[Stegall Law Firm]

I would like to switch out my Beretta 92fs (which I rarely carry but it is my primary 9mm sidearm) for a 19 or an M&P 9, but that would be a lot of investment in new magazines.  I have 14 mags for the Beretta, most all are factory or Mecgar, and I didn't pay more than $20 for each.  That was pre-panic of course, purchased over several years.  But I'm not paying $30 for a standard cap pistol mag.  Maybe they'll come down in the next year.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yep, I like carrying Kahr P9 for similar reasons as monkeylizard. Bigger than PM9 and room for one more finger on the grip, but just as thin as PM9 and feels great in the hand, rides in a pocket great.

 

I can shoot the P9 "fairly good" but not as good as a full size pistol, because of the short sight radius and the trigger. The long smooth trigger is pretty good for that style, but could probably shoot a P9 a little better if they made a variant with the same frame and slide "feel" but with either a "glock clone" trigger, or alternately a SA trigger and 1911-style safety.

 

But because that isn't too likely,  maybe eventually will get something like a Sig P938 or some other pint-sized 9mm 1911 style gun. It would take some time after purchase to decide whether that would really be much better for carry, though I could shoot something like that a little more accurately than a P9. But might not ever get around to it, because the P9 does pretty good.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[charlessummers]

Seems like everyone has pretty much summed up what Hickok45 says in this video....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BOMmIvMRm8

 

My vote would be the Glock as well, but I don't have a 92FS, so take that for what it's worth.

[Dennis1209]

Well, since I'm the first to mention it... Definitely the Glock 19.

[JayC]

None of that matters for your average self defense situation....  The fact is the Glock 19 can be picked up and used with minimal training (or none) on the weapons platform, and will work everytime as intended.  That can not be said about the 92f or the 1911.  Both of which are great guns, just not good carry guns.

 

Experienced shooters that practice often can mostly overcome the external safeties on the 1911 and 92f, but the truth is very few HCP holders are practicing enough to do that.

 

Obviously if the OP was shooting often enough he'd already have a favored platform and wouldn't be asking for opinions on which pistol to get for concealed carry :) 

 

I carried a 1911 for the better part of a decade everyday, they are great guns and I'll never sell the ones I own...  but I'll never carry another one in my life on a day to day basis...  I don't get to the range often enough to be sure under severe stress that I would remember to disable the external safety every time...  and if you ever need to disable the safety, you need the firearm to work right 100% of the time.  

 

A Glock 19 is going to answer that call a LOT better than most other medium caliber semi-auto compact carry pistols on the market today. That is not to say there aren't other good choices, but giving the OP the simple truth, he'd be hard pressed to pick a better day to day carry weapon IMHO.

 

I would agree with this if the no-safety guns had good triggers, but none of them do.  So the choice is a bad trigger or a safety, and people pick which of those 2 they prefer.

 

[Oh Shoot]

.... I don't get to the range often enough to be sure under severe stress that I would remember to disable the external safety every time...  and if you ever need to disable the safety, you need the firearm to work right 100% of the time.  

 

Regarding the training, a double/single action pistola like the 92 has a double drawback with the first shot being completely different from the following ones, too. I find when I haven't shot it for a while, after the long hard first double action pull, I'm completely out of sync for the next quite light single action one, and have pulled it before I actually intended to, and have seen a buddy do the same.  And cocking it for first shot is not an option in a self defense situation, especially the 92, can't really hardly do it with one hand without bracing it even if you had the time.

 

- OS

Edited July 30, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest Wildogre]

If you are not going to spend the hours/years of practice with a safety then the Glock.

 

Me i have calluses on the inside of my left thumb from practice flipping the safety off my 92 and developing one on my right. But then I purchased my first 92 in 1980 so I have had the time to practice. 

 

Yes you can carry and conceal a 92fs.

[scoutfsu]

The 92 does not have a safety.  It has a decocker and should be left in the horizontal (OFF :woohoo: ) position.

 

Sorry, pet peeve from the Army.

[Oh Shoot]

The 92 does not have a safety.  It has a decocker and should be left in the horizontal (OFF :woohoo: ) position.

 

The 92FS has both a safety and decocker function on same lever. With cocked hammer, it first rotates firing pin plunger out of the way (which is the safety) and then decocks hammer.  It can then be taken back off safety to fire in double action mode, or manually recocked to fire in single. If safety is engaged, firing pin plunger does not engage and it cannot fire manually or by being dropped.

 

Cannot be carried cocked and locked. If the safety is not engaged, striking the hammer can make it fire, as dropping it on it, whatever. Once the hammer is decocked, the lever functions purely as a safety.

 

It also has a half cock position when safety is off, but this is not secure, and Beretta says not to carry it in that mode. The half cock position is only designed to stop the hammer from falling if you are firing it in double action mode and decide not to complete the trigger pull.

 

- OS

Edited July 30, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[scoutfsu]

Interesting.  I was always told it was just a decocker.  Made sense since traditional safeties prevent the trigger from being pulled when engaged. 

[TMF]

The 92 does not have a safety. It has a decocker and should be left in the horizontal (OFF :woohoo: ) position.

The 92FS has both a safety and decocker function on same lever. With cocked hammer, it first rotates firing pin plunger out of the way (which is the safety) and then decocks hammer. It can then be taken back off safety to fire in double action mode, or manually recocked to fire in single. If safety is engaged, firing pin plunger does not engage and it cannot fire manually or by being dropped.

Cannot be carried cocked and locked. If the safety is not engaged, striking the hammer can make it fire, as dropping it on it, whatever. Once the hammer is decocked, the lever functions purely as a safety.

It also has a half cock position when safety is off, but this is not secure, and Beretta says not to carry it in that mode. The half cock position is only designed to stop the hammer from falling if you are firing it in double action mode and decide not to complete the trigger pull.

- OS

The point is that you don't use the safety. This is also a pet peeve of mine. If the weapon in holstered then there is no reason to use the safety as a safety. It is a decocker. In fact, in all my training with a Beretta, every instructor has always referred to it as a decocker. I hate hate hate hate hate hate when some Army douche comes up to me and tells me my "safety" is off, and then I have to explain to him why he is a moron. I can't count on all my fingers and toes how many times I've had this conversation.

[Oh Shoot]

The point is that you don't use the safety. This is also a pet peeve of mine. If the weapon in holstered then there is no reason to use the safety as a safety. It is a decocker. In fact, in all my training with a Beretta, every instructor has always referred to it as a decocker. I hate hate hate hate hate hate when some Army douche comes up to me and tells me my "safety" is off, and then I have to explain to him why he is a moron. I can't count on all my fingers and toes how many times I've had this conversation.

 

When the pistol is already decocked, and the lever is down, the trigger can't be activated. When the lever is up, it can be activated. Perfect definition of a safety to me. Same purpose as any other safety, with the added function of decocking if hammer is cocked at the time you activate it.

 

Yes, of course you can carry it with safety off, however it can discharge if back of hammer is somehow struck or gun is dropped and falls on it.

 

The Army douches probably called it a safety because that's what it is and the reason Beretta names it as such also. :)

 

- OS

Edited July 30, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[mikegideon]

When the pistol is already decocked, and the lever is down, the trigger can't be activated. When the lever is up, it can be activated. Perfect definition of a safety to me. Same purpose as any other safety, with the added function of decocking if hammer is cocked at the time you activate it.

 

Yes, of course you can carry it with safety off, however it can discharge if back of hammer is somehow struck or gun is dropped and falls on it.

 

- OS

 

Sounds just like the DA/SA Smith and Wessons. My CZ P01 had a true decocker. Spring loaded, no safety.

[Oh Shoot]

Sounds just like the DA/SA Smith and Wessons. My CZ P01 had a true decocker. Spring loaded, no safety.

 

You should always wait till I finish my inevitable edits on any post I make over three lines. :)

 

Yeah, the Beretta, even if it didn't have decock function built in, the lever would still function as a safety.

 

Indeed, if the safety part didn't activate first, the thing would fire as soon as the decocking part dropped the hammer, as it doesn't "ease" down, but falls with full force into normal firing position. Rather unsettling the first few times you do it actually, until you look in there and see what it's actually doing to the rotating firing pin plunger before the hammer drops.

 

- OS

Edited July 30, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[TMF]

When the pistol is already decocked, and the lever is down, the trigger can't be activated. When the lever is up, it can be activated. Perfect definition of a safety to me. Same purpose as any other safety, with the added function of decocking if hammer is cocked at the time you activate it.

Yes, of course you can carry it with safety off, however it can discharge if back of hammer is somehow struck or gun is dropped and falls on it.

The Army douches probably called it a safety because that's what it is and the reason Beretta names it as such also. :)

- OS

I realize the function of it, I've been carrying them for 15 years, however it is unnecessary. Berettas are drop safe, so it won't "go off" if you simply drop it with the hammer down. In fact, my 96G doesn't have a decocker that functions as a safety. It's spring loaded and returns to the fire position as soon as you release the decocker. Safeties on Berettas are unnecessary to use for anyone with more than a couple hours training on pistols. If it was necessary then Sigs would all have safeties. Edited July 30, 2013 by TMF

[mikegideon]

I realize the function of it, I've been carrying them for 15 years, however it is unnecessary. Berettas are drop safe, so it won't "go off" if you simply drop it with the hammer down. In fact, my 96G doesn't have a decocker that functions as a safety. It's spring loaded and returns to the fire position as soon as you release the decocker. Safeties on Berettas are unnecessary to use for anyone with more than a couple hours training on pistols. If it was necessary then Sigs would all have safeties.

 

The Model 59 Smith will send one right up your leg if you drop it right, safety or no. They fixed it in the second generation.

[TMF]

The Model 59 Smith will send one right up your leg if you drop it right, safety or no. They fixed it in the second generation.

There are pistols out there that are not drop safe, but the Beretta 92/96 and, I believe, all their modern pistols made after the early 80s are. It's an industry standard, or at least I thought it was. The old GI 1911s were not, but then again, who in their right mind would put one in the pipe and then drop the hammer on it?

[mikegideon]

There are pistols out there that are not drop safe, but the Beretta 92/96 and, I believe, all their modern pistols made after the early 80s are. It's an industry standard, or at least I thought it was. The old GI 1911s were not, but then again, who in their right mind would put one in the pipe and then drop the hammer on it?

 

Sure they are. My Model 59 was built in the late '70's. 

[scoutfsu]

The point is that you don't use the safety. This is also a pet peeve of mine. If the weapon in holstered then there is no reason to use the safety as a safety. It is a decocker. In fact, in all my training with a Beretta, every instructor has always referred to it as a decocker. I hate hate hate hate hate hate when some Army douche comes up to me and tells me my "safety" is off, and then I have to explain to him why he is a moron. I can't count on all my fingers and toes how many times I've had this conversation.

 

You and me both.  I take a sharpie and blacken the red dot.  It helps prevent some of the comments. 

 

OhShoot - When I think of an external safety, I think of the AR or 1911.  When engaged, you can't pull the trigger.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen people attempt to shoot their M9 and fail to do so because of that terrible decocker/safety.  That or they rack the slide and accidentally engage the lever down and get the same result.  Software issue to be sure.....but its also a hardware issue.

[JayC]

Complete agreement, DA/SA pistols such as the 92fs IMHO should never be considered for daily carry...  Again the issues can be overcome with a lot of training, but the fact is very few people are getting that much range time.  A good carry firearm should have the same trigger pull on every shot.

 

Regarding the training, a double/single action pistola like the 92 has a double drawback with the first shot being completely different from the following ones, too. I find when I haven't shot it for a while, after the long hard first double action pull, I'm completely out of sync for the next quite light single action one, and have pulled it before I actually intended to, and have seen a buddy do the same.  And cocking it for first shot is not an option in a self defense situation, especially the 92, can't really hardly do it with one hand without bracing it even if you had the time.

 

- OS