Need someone who REALLY knows CW weapons to look at this for me

[Guest TankerHC]

I want this gun, pretty bad, so do some of my friends, for reasons other than just the gun. I can get an 1851 Navy for under 2 grand all day long up in VA and PA. But this gun's history has been verified by Colt, and, it is owned by General B.B. Bell, who is a Tanker and former Border Cav, some of us at times have served under him. Im willing to pay more than its worth for those reasons, but not WAY more than its worth. Some of my friends are though, some Tankers an a Scout or two are going out of their fricken minds over this gun.

 

I do want it, but not bad enough to drop way way more than its worth on the gun. Fortunately the seller offers up to 9 months layaway, but unfortunately the seller offers up to 9 months layaway, because of that I know some people who may be willing to go way overboard.

 

I am willing to pay above the actual value for the provenance, but not way above the value of the gun itself.

 

So looking at this gun, history verified by Colt and owned by a 4 Star General who carried it with him through his 39 year career. (It was his fathers gun).

 

What do you think the value is? What SHOULD be the upper limit? Already been outbid 3 times.

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=354492052

 

If General Bell were ever to want to find a way to make some Tankers lose their minds, he did it...offering up this gun.  (JK)

Edited July 28, 2013 by TankerHC

[Smokin45]

It seems your in a spot. This offer will be one of a life time. The opportunity is here now, how bad do you want it.  It looks in good shape should be a good investment.  Hope this helps.  

   Good Luck        I have one not in the shape this one is. Family history go's it was picked up on the battle field of Gettysburg.

[Guest TankerHC]

It seems your in a spot. This offer will be one of a life time. The opportunity is here now, how bad do you want it.  It looks in good shape should be a good investment.  Hope this helps.  

   Good Luck        I have one not in the shape this one is. Family history go's it was picked up on the battle field of Gettysburg.

 

My thoughts exactly. The chances of something like this ever coming up again are probably slim to none.

Edited July 28, 2013 by TankerHC

[DaveTN]

Having the letter from Colt plus a personal letter from a Four-Star will push it beyond what the gun is worth.

I see many on GB in the auctions that have ended. Of the highest priced ones, one is a presentation gun that has been listed several times at $14K and not sold, one is in worse shape than the one you are looking at, it has been listed many times at $5200 and not sold, another at $3500 and has not sold. I don’t see any that have the supporting paperwork of the one you are looking at.

You never know, someone may put a value on that letter from Bell as high as the value on the letter from Colt.

The highest I see for one that actually sold was $2600 for one with the original wood box and everything. There are bids on some of them in the $3500 range, but they did not meet reserve and the guns did not sell.

I would guess with those letters the one you are looking at will make it over $5K. But that’s just a guess based on what I am seeing, I am no expert on old guns.

[ted]

And what would you do with it , I have bought collectors guns before sat in the safe and gleamed at it 1 or 2 times and finally sold them . was no fun if I could not enjoy shooting it , that's when I started to tell my self do you need it , do I really really want it , and can I use it , I found I would really want a gun I could shoot and have fun with . This is what you are going to have to do , do some soul searching and see if your willing to pay that mutch for a gun jest to say you own it , then you will think WOW what was I doing or thinking .

[Guest TankerHC]

And what would you do with it , I have bought collectors guns before sat in the safe and gleamed at it 1 or 2 times and finally sold them . was no fun if I could not enjoy shooting it , that's when I started to tell my self do you need it , do I really really want it , and can I use it , I found I would really want a gun I could shoot and have fun with . This is what you are going to have to do , do some soul searching and see if your willing to pay that mutch for a gun jest to say you own it , then you will think WOW what was I doing or thinking .

 

 

Already thought of that, it will go on display in my house with my 61 Springfield. But I do agree Ted, thats why I wont go as far as I believe some of the people I know will. But the reserve has been met, which means if it doesnt skyrocket, its going to have to go.

Edited July 28, 2013 by TankerHC

[Hi Point Hooligan]

Well I look at it from this perspective. I would buy it as an investment piece. Not sure if this gun will increase in value (this statement is based on the fact that I do not have any background in this type of weapon) But I know some of my C&R stuff has gone up. But some people just like to buy this type of stuff to have. To put on display… I say if this purchase will make you happy by all means pull the trigger.

[GlockSpock]

I don't know the first thing about Civil War firearms, so I cannot contribute in any way to this thread, but what caught my attention was that the seller is listed as being in Cleveland, TN. I cannot think of who "PHCWarehouse would be in Cleveland. Any ideas anyone?

[Smokin45]

I don't know the first thing about Civil War firearms, so I cannot contribute in any way to this thread, but what caught my attention was that the seller is listed as being in Cleveland, TN. I cannot think of who "PHCWarehouse would be in Cleveland. Any ideas anyone?

Here is a look at were PHC Warehouse's are:    http://www.phcofmissouri.com/

[GlockSpock]

Here is a look at were PHC Warehouse's are:    http://www.phcofmissouri.com/

 

I found that by searching for it, it is just interesting to me that they list their account as being in Cleveland, TN. Then again, I have never actually used GunBroker, so maybe there is a reason for that.

[Guest TankerHC]

I don't know the first thing about Civil War firearms, so I cannot contribute in any way to this thread, but what caught my attention was that the seller is listed as being in Cleveland, TN. I cannot think of who "PHCWarehouse would be in Cleveland. Any ideas anyone?

 

 

I posted about him because I bought a rifle from him last week. Initially there was an issue (Which I figured was more on my part) but was both. PHC website said they were headed to 120 shops. But everyone I had looked at turned out to be MIA. But later found out they do have 14 shops, the closest one is in Knoxville and they go by TN Gunbroker. We went back and forth through email and he went ahead and called me at home. The number he called from linked to a legitimate address and was listed in Linkdin. He doesnt do FTF transactions and I know why. He has over 400 guns in stock and if you look he has up about 60 auctions at once, if he did FTF transactions or delivered guns thats all he would have time to do. I told him I was going to be using Poseys Gun and Pawn on Keith Street, based on a TNGO users recommendation to see if he would deliver, I had called them and talked to one of the Poseys. When he called me I mistakenly used the wrong name and he said "I dont know who that is, the Poseys I know are Tim and (someone else). But he knew them both, and I think he said something about Tim owning a construction company. I dont know who he is personally, but whoever he is, he is a super nice person, and said he could deliver the gun to them, and Posey was supposed to call me yesterday when it was delivered, and they did. The guy is 100% legit.

 

BTW, he said he had not heard of TN gun owners and asked if I would put in a good word for him. For the first time sale it was a little confusing since no one had heard of PHC, but he is definitely legit. he also said "for those who like oddball guns" he gets in weird and odd guns all the time.

Edited July 28, 2013 by TankerHC

[gregintenn]

The revolver looks rough to me, and in my opinion, already overpriced for just the gun. A 51 Navy, while desirable, isn't a rare piece.

 

 

I want this gun, pretty bad, so do some of my friends, for reasons other than just the gun.

Now there's where you are going to have to do some soul searching, as it appears others do as well.

[Smokin45]

I found that by searching for it, it is just interesting to me that they list their account as being in Cleveland, TN. Then again, I have never actually used GunBroker, so maybe there is a reason for that.

It may be an owner from one of the other 3 sites in TN selling out of Cleveland  ??? Just guessing

[Guest TankerHC]

It may be an owner from one of the other 3 sites in TN selling out of Cleveland  ??? Just guessing

 

Posted reply above, he is legit.

[Guest Riciticky]

It is worth what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it. JMO.

[Smokin45]

Posted reply above, he is legit.

Good glad to here it. Hope your feeling better from the shingles.    

[Guest TankerHC]

It is worth what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it. JMO.

 

 

Common opinion but I think that holds true more for the seller than the buyer. In real terms. The reason being, "worth what someone will pay for it" to the buyer, definitely true. But, you look at some of the stupid purchases over the years online, a piece of toast that went for $400 because when it came out of the toaster it had Jesus image toasted into it. Id like to see that guy sell that piece of toast.

 

If I were to get really lucky and win this, I would probably never sell it and pass it on. But there has to be some value. No doubt value will rise, and I agree there are a lot of original 51's out there, but there are few that have the history verified by Colt because a LOT of them are manufactured by one of the hundreds of gunsmiths who made licensed and unlicensed copies.

 

I say I would never get rid of it, but at the same time I am not married to my inanimate objects. If something drastic were to come up, family illness where they needed money or something, no doubt I would not have a problem selling whatever it took.

 

Which is why I asked in my OP the value of the gun, I will go above a bit for the provenance, but Im not going crazy with it. If it were my grandfather personal Springfield or something like that sure.

 

But it definitely has value, and will rise in value, but there is more value to someone who has somewhat of a connection to the previous owners. WHich is why I have a feeling a couple of guys I know personally are going to end up taking this thing way over the top.

[ted]

It could also be one or two of them with a extra account boosting it up also after some one else bids I have had that happen to me before on a auction site . Funny thing it sold to some one else and not even 30 min it was relisted at a low starting price less than what it sold for .

[Chris]

Well I look at it from this perspective. I would buy it as an investment piece. Not sure if this gun will increase in value (this statement is based on the fact that I do not have any background in this type of weapon) But I know some of my C&R stuff has gone up. But some people just like to buy this type of stuff to have. To put on display… I say if this purchase will make you happy by all means pull the trigger.

 

Exactly. They aren't making any more of these.

[MiddTennTaco]

The history is nice and all but it looks like crap to be honest.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

[gregintenn]

 

I will go above a bit for the provenance, but Im not going crazy with it.

Then I'd suggest you let it go seeing the current bid price.

[1gewehr]

I'd let it go.  It's not in nice enough condition to warrant the price.  While it was made during the Civil War, there is no provenance attaching to anyone during that conflict.  For all we know, it could have been bought by a Pennsylvania merchant and spent it's life in a desk drawer.  To me, Gen'l Bell's letter is nice, but not as important as the Colt letter.  If it had provenance to Gen'l John B. Hood, that would be entirely different!

[Guest TankerHC]

Found a place online (Collectors Forearms) that has them, $8-$10,000. Except they look brand new. And are real.

 

Looking at Collectors it has already far exceeded its value. Looking at NUmber 5, Colt can verify on that one. Serials all match. (Just like the one on Gunbroker.

 

Now I am interested to see how how it goes. Its nice but Im not willing to pay a grand or more than its value for reasons others are.

 

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/colt-1851-navy/

 

 

BTW, my high bid was 3000. I had to ask, I wanted a would you do it. Think the general consesus here is "Probably not". So, thanks. Saved me at least a grand or two because I agree.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TankerHC