Small cal / large cal, handgun / long gun

[RichardR]

Meh, a single 70 lb doe = 100 x squirrels IMHO but I'm not going to continue to argue the merits of shotguns, if folks want to chance it with a .22LR that's fine, just keep in mind that the only time I use a .22LR is when I want to make small game (rabbit,squirrel) hunting a bit more "challenging" ... and not when I want to fill my bag limit or for when I am after other game like duck,geese,deer,turkey,etc.

The arguement reminds me of the guy who puts a single #8 hook + 20' of 12lb fishing line in his pack thinking he's prepared to "survive" because of it.

I just look over at my dozen or so 125' 300lbs test main-line, 25 x #1 hook 150lb trotlines, and mutiple boat-loads of commercial slatbaskets, dozens of yo-yo's, juglines, etc & laugh.

I was just trying to teach, I wasn't trying to be a douche, some folks just refuse to budge off of the fantasy & really see the reality of what it's going to take to actually "survive" such a collapse.

A bulk-pack of .22LR & a #8 hook isn't going to cut it IMHO.

I will agree traps & snares are also an efficient way to harvest wildlife, so long as your position is static anyway, iffin you are on the move they're hard to double back for.

[Guest Republican]

IMHO it makes more sense to standardize your equipment. I would prefer a 22mag pistol and 22mag rifle. Or 22lr if you made me but either way but the 22wmr has enuff power to get most things done.
So I got a pistol and rifle that take the same ammo and now I'm feeling good about my smart decision. 38/357 in a pistol & rifle may also be a good choice if ur into confrontational situation scenarios.

[Jonsaiga]

Meh, a single 70 lb doe = 100 x squirrels IMHO but I'm not going to continue to argue the merits of shotguns, if folks want to chance it with a .22LR that's fine, just keep in mind that the only time I use a .22LR is when I want to make small game (rabbit,squirrel) hunting a bit more "challenging" ... and not when I want to fill my bag limit or for when I am after other game like duck,geese,deer,turkey,etc.

The arguement reminds me of the guy who puts a single #8 hook + 20' of 12lb fishing line in his pack thinking he's prepared to "survive" because of it.

I just look over at my dozen or so 125' 300lbs test main-line, 25 x #1 hook 150lb trotlines, and mutiple boat-loads of commercial slatbaskets, dozens of yo-yo's, juglines, etc & laugh.

I was just trying to teach, I wasn't trying to be a douche, some folks just refuse to budge off of the fantasy & really see the reality of what it's going to take to actually "survive" such a collapse.

A bulk-pack of .22LR & a #8 hook isn't going to cut it IMHO.

I will agree traps & snares are also an efficient way to harvest wildlife, so long as your position is static anyway, iffin you are on the move they're hard to double back for.

Iffin you are on the move are you really going to want to try to process and carry that 70lb doe in addition to the rest of your gear? How are you planning on preserving that much meat before it goes rancid, especially in this heat and humidity? For the record...... I'm not trying to get you to "argue" the merits of the shotgun, as I personally am quite fond of them and find them to be fine weapons/tools. With that said however, experience has shown me the .22 has plenty of merits of its own and should not be discounted in a survival hunting role ...... nor should people be ridiculed or insulted simply because their opinions and life experiences differs from that of your own. 

[RichardR]

nor should people be ridiculed or insulted simply because their opinions and life experiences differs from that of your own.

Welp IMHO relying on a .22LR for survival, is sort of like trying to win the Indy 500 in a Honda Prius, it might make it around the track a few times, but ya ain't real bright iffin ya try do it.

So pardon the @#$% out of me for trying to prevent folks from handicapping themselves with their gear selection, apparently there are some very delusional Prius owners amongst us who really think they can get that checkered flag if they just believe in themselves.

A squirrel is at best 200-250 calories a pop, a single human adult requires 2000-2500 calories a day, do the math, err maybe I should just shut the hell up & allow Darwinism to do it's work ...

[Guest The Itis]

Squirrel is 588 calories / pound of meat, and your analogies are never relevant. If you think that figure of 2000 calories a day is at all accurate because that's what it says on the back of your bag of cheese puffs, then yes, save your breath and let Darwinism do it's work.

[MiddTennTaco]

Good luck finding a fat 1lb squirrel let alone at LEAST four of them every day. 2000 calories is considered a normal diet, not an active persons calorie consumption. You could easily double that being outdoors.

Cleaning, preserving, and packing deer meat? Trust me, lol... Its been done as many times as there are stars in the sky.

You know whats actually ridiculous? Surviving on squirrel meat. Ive never heard of anyone surviving on squirrel. Maybe a skilled native american two hundred years ago before we populated this continent.

[Wingshooter]

Crossbow for survival! Lol

Back on topic...
Larger cal rifle / 22 revolver. I'll have a Winchester 94 in 30WCF and a Ruger Single Six in .22lr. Back to basics with a lever gun and a single-action revolver!

If I'm in a survival situation I need a light, compact, reliable, .30 caliber rifle. I want to be able to hunt effectively and defend myself. The Win94 ain't gonna break, and I can't loose any mags. 30-30 ammo is not terrible difficult to carry around either. Having a larger caliber rifle would just give me better peace of mind in a survival situation I think.

My Ruger Single Six with a 5.5" barrel is accurate, reliable and effective for hunting small game. It's also a 22mag with the extra cylinder.

[RichardR]

Squirrel is 588 calories / pound of meat, and your analogies are never relevant. If you think that figure of 2000 calories a day is at all accurate because that's what it says on the back of your bag of cheese puffs, then yes, save your breath and let Darwinism do it's work.

Wow you've got the audacity to suggest that there is a whole pound of meat, &/or 588 edible calories in the average squirrel? When they typically only weigh about a single pound when they are alive & kicking (on average) to begin with?

I suppose that is possible on "survival fantasy-island" but it isn't very likely here in reality, as most folks don't typically eat them whole, bones, guts, fluffy tail & all.

In my experience folks usually skin, gut, debone & soak the meat in brine prior to tossing them in the stew pot, well at least I do, and again this is just my experience mind you, but in my experience this averages about 1/3rd of their original body weight being edible meat, wait, what is a third of 588? Is that around 200? And if 200 is multiplied by three does that equal 600? Wow imagine that! Maff is fun!

Anyway I honestly don't care what you personally choose to use, I just want the other folks following this thread not to get the wrong idea & believe wrongly, as you seem too, that a .22LR is a good choice for "survival" because it really isn't.

Granted it's better than nothing, but it is not going to be able to provide enough calories to sustain even one adult, let alone an entire family.

[Guest The Itis]

I'll take a Prius (which is a Toyota, not a Honda) and make it further than you in your Indy car.

 

While you're stuck on the side of the road you can comfort yourself by telling yourself that your car was hauling ass for the first 80 miles and looked impressive doing it.

[Timestepper]

Wow, what a thread!  :popcorn:

 

Okay, I'll play. (And mostly by the rules, too!)

 

Handgun: Long-barreled (eight plus inches) .22LR single action revolver.  Reasoning: Having owned one and hunted with it in nearly every weather condition imaginable for several years in a couple of different states/regions, I've found it to be reliable, steady and accurate. Not to mention the fact that take down and cleaning is a breeze with the even the simplest of materials.

 

Long gun: Savage 24V .357mag/20ga. Reasoning: Having owned one for nearly thirty years, I've found it to be extremely realiable, highly accurate and with sufficient knockdown power and range to kill anything I'm likely to come up against. And again, takedown, cleanup and maintenance is a breeze. Granted, it does have that extra barrel (chambered in 20ga) hanging underneath and adding weight, but I won't talk about it here since the OP has specifically requested that shotguns not be mentioned. (On the other hand, if I were in a survival situation and happened to stumble across someone's worthlessly hoarded batch of 20 guage shells, I'd happily relieve them of their burden just because I'm a great guy.)

 

Having said that...

 

If I had to start from scratch and choose guns that I don't already own, I'd still go with the long-barreled .22 revolver, but - assuming that I had a readily available/previously hoarded supply of ammo - for the long gun, I'd go with a Winchester '73 chambered in .44/40. There's a reason they call it the gun that won the west and that's the reason(s) I'd choose it.

 

Now, as to the other can of worms (which I would hunt with a sharpened digging stick rather than any of the aforementioned firearms) opened here, the western mountain men had a saying about newcomers or "greenhorns" in the west: "He don't know poor bull from fat cow..." ...Strikes me that knowing the difference might just make a bigger dent in your survival than what caliber(s) of rifle/hangun you carry... 

 

 

:usa:

 

 

...TS...

 

 

[RobertNashville]

...Anyway I honestly don't care what you personally choose to use, I just want the other folks following this thread not to get the wrong idea & believe wrongly, as you seem too...

Anybody following this thread for survival ideas deserves what they get!  ;)

 

I'll take a Prius (which is a Toyota, not a Honda)...

Every time I see a Prius all I can think of is a giant virginal. :rofl:

Edited August 11, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest The Itis]

I totally forgot when given the option of a Prius or an Indy car, I could've chosen a Hummer, according to the way some people like to answer questions. :rofl:

[RichardR]

Anybody following this thread for survival ideas deserves what they get! ;)


Every time I see a Prius all I can think of is a giant virginal. :rofl:

Agreed Robert which brings up a couple great points, relying on a "hunter-gatherer" plan of action for anything more than very short-term semi-solution to a very temporary dire-situation &/or to help suppliment other dietary resources would be rather unwise ... well for anyone actually serious about prepping/survival, some folks seem more than content with a lot less "preps & planning" than I could ever be comfortable with though.

Setting the firearms/hunting discussion aside for a moment inorder to touch on a couple other important points that should be repeated as often as possible.

Everyone needs to have both a stockpile of goods, as well as renewable, easily cultivated & harvested food & fresh water resources, preferably multiple sources & enough of an excess of them for potential barter/trade for other goods, services, skills not on hand or in enough abundence in your little "survival group".

Security will also be a major concern, the "have nots" are not going to peacefully starve to death without putting up a desperate fight, especially if they see a family of "haves" that they believe they can take stuff from.

What you would do to keep from having to watch your child die from starving to death, they would do, there is an infamous quote that I can't recall at the moment but essentially it says "society is just a few meals away from complete chaos".

And remember that just because you've set aside extra food doesn't mean anyone else in your neighborhood has done so, the percentage of American's who have even a single week's worth of food for their families in their fridge & pantries is really sad & pathetic, that percentage drops even lower at two weeks worth & almost none of your fellow Americans have 3 weeks or more worth of food on-hand.

I'm guessing after 3 weeks of not eating, even your own best friend would kill you over a mouthful of beans.

Anyway a Prius, be it made by Honda/Toyota whatever it really makes no difference to me who makes that crappy little hybrid car it is just about worthless to me, it can't haul or tow anything worth hauling or towing, it can't travel off-roads past maybe a few dozen meters if lucky, so it wouldn't be able to take me, my family or my gear anywhere I'd want or need to go, the only thing I'd use one of those things is if I managed to drive it somewhere I needed it, park it tucked out of the way remote spot & use them to provide a remote auxillary power source for something useful, like powering my power tools, recharging batteries, running deep freezers, etc.

I would apologize for the thread drift, but this trainwreck of a thread was doomed to derail almost as soon as it left the station LOL.

[Guest The Itis]

Anyway a Prius, be it made by Honda/Toyota whatever it really makes no difference to me who makes that crappy little hybrid car it is just about worthless to me, it can't haul or tow anything worth hauling or towing, it can't travel off-roads past maybe a few dozen meters if lucky, so it wouldn't be able to take me, my family or my gear anywhere I'd want or need to go, the only thing I'd use one of those things is if I managed to drive it somewhere I needed it, park it tucked out of the way remote spot & use them to provide a remote auxillary power source for something useful, like powering my power tools, recharging batteries, running deep freezers, etc.

 

....because the alternative, an Indy car, would be better than a Prius, right?
Man you can't even comprehend the limits of your own hypothetical situations.
Not sure if you're mentally dysfunctional or just enjoy shtting on everything.
If you think this thread was derailing before you showed up, then you really have quite the deficit in reading, being unable to see your follies.

Practically illiterate narcissist, you can to start your own thread talking about why taking a shotgun and an Indy car is the best choice for every scenario.
Leave this thread for those who have answered relevantly to discuss.

[TrickyNicky]

I totally forgot when given the option of a Prius or an Indy car, I could've chosen a Hummer, according to the way some people like to answer questions. :rofl:

Well that's the thing, we were never really given choices to choose from. All we got was a question as to what we would choose, a large caliber rifle with a rimfire handgun or vise versa.

Apparently my choice was unrealistic, how or why I'm still not sure. Either way the "parameters" of the question change nothing for my picks. Which by the way, I personally find totally realistic since those weapons ARE what I'd grab first.

Not trying to troll but what IS the purpose of this thread if half of the answers don't qualify somehow? Are you looking for open honest opinions, or maybe looking to validate your own choices? Nothing wrong at all with the later, just realize folks will have alternate view points of their own.

Well, it looks like I'm starting to rant so I may as well let it all out. ;)

What is so unreasonable about being able to fire 5 of the most common rounds out of two weapons? How or why is it unreasonable to assume that there may be some scavenging and of trading happening whilst "running for the hills" or even while there? Are we going under the assumption that we'll be all alone up there? What about everybody and their sister who has plans to "BUG out" to the hills? What about the inhabitants of those hills?

[nightrunner]

The truth of the matter is that if you plan on bugging out to the woods, YOU WILL DIE.

Bugging out is NOT just leaving civilization to go play in the woods and think you can actually survive for any length of time when youve never been anywhere wilder than the city park or zoo.

Bugging out is leaving the city and TRAVELLING to your bug out location that is stocked with food, water, guns, ammo and all other supplies. You are only trying to get there. It should be no more than a 3 day hike or the range of your vehicle with a full tank and what full fuel cans you have on hand. If you dont have a bug out location, plan on staying put and bugging in.

Bushcraft and living off the land isnt as easy as it sounds. You wont survive any real length of time no matter what kind of gear you have without an extensive skill set and lots of experience.

[Guest The Itis]

My thinking was for guns that can shoot multiple calibers, then there is probably one of those calibers that is better than the others. For example, if you pack a revolver that does 357 and 38spl, why would you choose something like half and half instead of all 357?

[Moped]

My thinking was for guns that can shoot multiple calibers, then there is probably one of those calibers that is better than the others. For example, if you pack a revolver that does 357 and 38spl, why would you choose something like half and half instead of all 357?

Well, one reason is cost.  Remington .357 158Gr SJHP is almost twice what .38 Spl 158gr SJHP is. If you are on a budget, that's an important consideration, when you're are trying to buy other supplies at the same time.  Another reason to have a duel or triple caliber (Ruger Blackhawk .357/9mm convertible) is if you have to scrounge for ammo in a post apocalyptic world, it's a lot easier to find one of three calibers as opposed to one caliber.

 

It also makes sense to have a pistol and a rifle that share the same caliber as opposed to carrying two different calibers.  Using the above Ruger Blackhawk example, you could pair it with a .357/.38 Spl lever gun or a 9mm Carbine.  Another rifle/pistol combination might be a ,44mag revolver with a .44mag lever gun or .Blackhawk in 30 carbine and a M1 Carbine..

[TrickyNicky]

My thinking was for guns that can shoot multiple calibers, then there is probably one of those calibers that is better than the others. For example, if you pack a revolver that does 357 and 38spl, why would you choose something like half and half instead of all 357?

Well that's actually a pretty sensible question, hopefully my answer seems sensible too.

The thought behind it IMHO is that I'm not currently living in the ends of time. I have many guns and like to have ammo for all of them on hand. Now I'm not talking about trying to truck along 1,000's upon 1,000's of rounds, but I have some .38 for revolvers that only shoot it, I have some .357 for revolvers that will shoot that too, and I have a lot of 9mm for the half dozen or so pistols (and revolver and carbine :) ) that take it.

It wouldn't be to much of a stretch for me to take it all with me, especially when you consider I ain't a goin nowhere without my family. I supply the supply's, they help carry em. If I had to go solo for whatever reason I'd still pick the Blackhawk. I can carry quite a bit of 9mm and still throw in a few boxes of 357 to have on hand should I need to get bigger game or whatever. For the most part the 9mm would do it in a survival situation, but its nice knowing that I have options.

Same thing applies to the AR. I can easily pack in at least 4,000 rounds of 22. I'd rather pack in 3,000 and carry some 223 instead. It just creates more options to fall back on.

[TrickyNicky]

The truth of the matter is that if you plan on bugging out to the woods, YOU WILL DIE.


You wont survive any real length of time no matter what kind of gear you have without an extensive skill set and lots of experience.

Not to mention a lack of 2 legged opposition. Imagine a whole city competing for the resources in the area surrounding it.

Any way kind of moot, I won't be bugging anything in the event of a social collapse. America will NEVER be mass invaded.

[Spots]

This thread is about nothing but validation of your choices to use a .22 lr in either a handgun or long gun. People give you suggestions and you respond by saying that answer doesn't fit your exact parameters. Welcome to the internet. When you post a question here, your gonna get opinons. Some are worth listening to, others aren't worth a tinkers damn. I would advise you read them all and consider them all. There are some very smart people here with tons of experience in survival situations and military situations. If you post a question with options a and b and 90% of the answer list option c, I might take that into consideration. That said, if I took one long rifle and one pistol on a bug out? Im taking my 1911 and my AR soon to be in 6.8. 22 lr is useless for damn near anything other than small game. You can't get consietent kills on medium sized and larger game, you cant do much more than harass a determined attack force. And a pistol is nothing but a qay to fight your way to a rifle. Harder to get good accuracy, less powerful ammo and smaller capacity. If my plan involved a .22 lr anything I would consider adding another weapon and leave the .22 for squirrels.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[RobertNashville]

This thread is about nothing but validation of your choices to use a .22 lr in either a handgun or long gun. People give you suggestions and you respond by saying that answer doesn't fit your exact parameters. Welcome to the internet. When you post a question here, your gonna get opinons. Some are worth listening to, others aren't worth a tinkers damn. I would advise you read them all and consider them all. There are some very smart people here with tons of experience in survival situations and military situations. If you post a question with options a and b and 90% of the answer list option c, I might take that into consideration. That said, if I took one long rifle and one pistol on a bug out? Im taking my 1911 and my AR soon to be in 6.8. 22 lr is useless for damn near anything other than small game. You can't get consietent kills on medium sized and larger game, you cant do much more than harass a determined attack force. And a pistol is nothing but a qay to fight your way to a rifle. Harder to get good accuracy, less powerful ammo and smaller capacity. If my plan involved a .22 lr anything I would consider adding another weapon and leave the .22 for squirrels.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

Excellent advice.

 

Personally, for many reasons, I'm not planning on bugging out because, although there are other considerations as well, I don't have a bug out location to go to.  I am certain that I and some of my neighbors would be far better off to work together rather than leaving (of course, in the event of a disaster that required leaving the area that's a different situation).

 

One of the things I decided to do a while ago was to decided just what calibers of weapons I wanted and then started parring down - this allowed me to concentrate my resources on just a couple of primary calibers.

 

I like the 22LR for plinking and I can concede some advantages for very specific purposes but for the most part, whether pistol or long gun, I want the most "gun" I can have.

[Guest The Itis]

Most gun would be having a 50 cal, but I don't think anyone here has even suggested such a thing. I assume people are automatically taking into consideration to some extent how much ammo weighs or choosing something that would be good enough as opposed to most gun possible.

[nightrunner]

"Good enough" aint gonna cut it come survival time. You are going to be highly stressed and possibly your fine motor skills will be deteriorating as well. While a .223 will kill a deer no problem with a perfect shot, you better bank on not getting that perfect shot and bring a .30/30, .308, .45/70 or the like for large game. Should also anticipate most game becoming very timid with everyone moving around and shooting and the like.

I have a question though. Since you are so fixated on ammo weight, are you planning on just wandering around in the woods and not actually going somewhere?

[Guest The Itis]

There is no specific scenario. That's kind of the whole point of having a versatile bug out kit, isn't it?

 

If the question was straightforward, like "you have to travel 237 miles offroad in a region where you might see a few whitetails, and you just grabbed a handful of ammo, what caliber would be best?" then great, it would be simple.

It seems people need to tie down to a certain situation before they have an answer on what is best to bring. Answers that rely on specific situations are narrow in scope. Really, if you somehow have the foresight to know exactly what kind of situation you'll be facing, then you don't need a bug out kit, you will have plenty of time to make a situation-appropriate-leisurely-jaunt kit. And if you're justifying a loadout component based on the off chance that you'll have an opportunity to shoot at a rabbit in full stride, then you're probably not doing it right.

 

For those who can't see the future, imagine there is no time to alter a loadout. When you created your kit you basically tried to imagine every possible scenario and packed up what you think covers as many scenarios as possible.

In this thread, let's say I decided my evaluation of numerous possible scenarios lead me to desire having one firearm in 22lr (or mag if available for a given gun). I know 22 rimfire is not enough alone, hence a second firearm at a larger caliber.

So, coming back full circle: For a bug out kit that attempts to anticipate as many scenarios as possible, which set of firearms would you prefer (if you decided a 22 rimfire should be included and a shotgun excluded): 22 rimfire handgun and larger cal rifle, or larger cal handgun and 22 rimfire rifle?