Small cal / large cal, handgun / long gun

[Guest The Itis]

Looking for opinions and maybe some lively discussion.

The question is, if you were to have one handgun and one long gun (rifle) as part of your loadout for a survival/prep situation, and having a 22lr is a given, would it be better to have a 22lr handgun and a larger caliber rifle or a larger caliber handgun and a 22lr rifle?

[Dolomite_supafly]

22lr and a 12 gauge shotgun for survival.

[gunwhatgun]

So two guns and one must be .22? Then I choose a 9mm hi capp pistol, i.e. M&P, glock ect.... and one of those Rossi .22/.410 over under things.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

I kinda like that 22 and 12 thing, too but them 12s sho' add some weight to the trek when you wanna go round for round. I need to look into .410 slug energy @ 100yds. May would go that route. If not that then I'd be tempted to go with a .357 mag. pistol with 6" barrel and .22 rifle.

[TrickyNicky]

Assuming ammo is already plentiful before SHTF I would go with my ar15 with 22 conversion kit to cover my bases for 223/556 and keep my Blachawk 9mm/38/357 for my pistol. Why? Easy, two guns, five extremely popular and effective calibers.


I win.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Hmmmm........that don't sound like a bad idea with the Blackhawk and all.

[Guest The Itis]

Maybe it would help if this steered more toward survival, can't rely on finding other ammo sources, so you naturally pack only 2 calibers.

Please try to keep the answers to the question, which one gets 22lr and which gets other caliber.

 

Even if you've got a fancy gun that accepts multiple calibers, there is probably going to be only one caliber you would grab over the others.

This is for stuff you would have to carry, and shotguns were not a part of the question. Besides, anything you could hunt with a shotgun, you could take with a large cal handgun or rifle, but not vice versa. Shotguns and ammo are heavier and bulkier, so they're ruled out.

 

Keep the answers coming, and maybe with a rationale as to which way you go. =)

Edited July 28, 2013 by The Itis

[Dolomite_supafly]

22 rifle and a Glock in 40 caliber. The reason for a Glock is they are everywhere and nearly all the parts interchange between different models. 40 caliber because that is what LE, as well as a bunch of civillians, use.

 

The 22 will be the primary game getter so you want it in a rifle because it is inherently more accurate than a pistol. As far as what kind I would say 10/22. It is, without a doubt, the most produced 22 rifle in the US. It is one of those guns that everyone should own and most guns owners do. And honestly a 22 being shot at 100 yards at an enemy isn't something to sneeze at. You could easily put a magazine into a man sized target at 100 yards in under 3 seconds. No it probably won't drop them right there but they would probably change their mind about aggressing. If you could put a suppressor on it then it would be even better. To me a suppressor is a survival must. You can hunt without drawing attention with the right kind of ammo. Nothing says there is another human in the area than a gunshot.

[nightrunner]

Maybe it would help if this steered more toward survival, can't rely on finding other ammo sources, so you naturally pack only 2 calibers.
Please try to keep the answers to the question, which one gets 22lr and which gets other caliber.

Even if you've got a fancy gun that accepts multiple calibers, there is probably going to be only one caliber you would grab over the others.
This is for stuff you would have to carry, and shotguns were not a part of the question. Besides, anything you could hunt with a shotgun, you could take with a large cal handgun or rifle, but not vice versa. Shotguns and ammo are heavier and bulkier, so they're ruled out.

Keep the answers coming, and maybe with a rationale as to which way you go. =)

Good luck hitting a bird in flight with a pistol or rifle.

There is a reason people, say shotgun. The only things they cant do is conceal very well like a pistol or shoot long range like a high powered rifle, however with modern slugs they can reach out to 150-175 yards.

You can hunt birds, large game, short range self defense with buckshot, extended ranges with slugs, and there sre specialty rounds for door breaching, busting through barriers, less lethal rubber bullets, beanbags, homemade rock salt rounds, etc.

However if shotgun is ruled out and we aren't allowed any multical guns, which is highly impractical, always take the best equipment available. I say a 10/22 rifle and a hicap .45acp, likely a double stack 1911 of some sort for me.

[Guest The Itis]

Again, not discussing the merits of a shotgun, and if you want to plan your survival loadout based on the necessity of shooting at birds in-flight as if that is not impractical, fine.

I put emphasis on carry-able round count, which is why the 22lr is a given. It's not like shotgun type rounds are limited to shotguns anyway, and carrying a large cal handgun with some shotshell rounds seems to fill that void of shooting at in-flight birds. And if you are thinking about beanbag rounds for your survival loadout, you must be planning for a very politically correct meltdown.

 

 

2 guns, 2 calibers, you don't get bonus points for answering outside of the box.

[TrickyNicky]

Well if we're going to obey all the rules... My answer remains unchanged.

Just because I'm not carrying all the different rounds I'd be able to fire doesn't mean it's not great to have the option.

In my case my multi cal weapons aren't exactly fancy. The Blackhawk is a simple SA revolver that happens to be way overbuilt for longevity and reliability. The only thing that lets them shoot 9mm is an extra cylinder. But lets say I forgot that extra cylinder, fine still have a handgun accurate and powerful enough to take anything from little critters (snake shot- light 38.) all the way up to deer (357 loads).

Same with the AR, nothing too fancy just a separate magazine and bolt. But lets say for the sake of arguing that I have it configured to 22. when the SHTF and while I have time to grab the rifle plus the ammo, I don't have enough time or forget the real bolt, mags and ammo for 223. I'd still want the AR due to it being such a common platform. Parts will likely be around in one way or another, it's pretty darn accurate, and just to throw this out there, I'm only to parts and some ammo away from a dual caliber platform. Just because I'm starting out with it one way doesn't make me pigeon holed into keeping it that way, or are we not allowed to scavenge either? :rolleyes:

[Guest The Itis]

What's the point of imagining what you'll find scavenging? Might as well imagine scavenging other guns or imagine finding a well stocked mansion. Is it really that difficult to consider that all you've got is all you brought?

 

No, point is you are carrying a supply of what you will have for sure. Would you bring the parts for a caliber conversion but no ammo of that other caliber? I see no reason you wouldn't. In a survival situation, I think it's an imaginative luxury that you would carry animal-specific rounds, "this is for snakes but these are for birds" when all you need really is a stick to deal with snakes.

 

Pretend your plan is to get far away from the big cities, as are a lot of survival plans.

 

It's really not a complex question, though I appreciate all the detailed answers in specific calibers.
Just a matter of preferring having more rounds for a handgun or more rounds for a rifle, in conjunction with the trade-off of the gun with more rounds being the less effective 22lr.

[nightrunner]

I can guarantee that you will not kill any bird in flight with shotshell ammo from a handgun, even 500SW magnum, it is snakeshot/ratshot at best. It spreads extremely fast and looses velocity even quicker.

Why a .22lr? For being able to carry alot of it? .22 is good for small game hunting and thats it, not much of that going on while your trying to get away from the city.

If you are only trying to get away from the big city to a rural retreat spot, fast and light and combat oriented would be your best friend, carry what food you need in your pack.

For that situation, an AR15 in 5.56 or 6.8 and a hi cap pistol of your favorite flavor.

Just because one of our answers doesnt fit your idea of a survival situation doesn't mean its wrong or outside the box.

But to satisfy your" inside the box" survival situation, take a .22rifle and a .357 revolver.

[TrickyNicky]

Just a matter of preferring having more rounds for a handgun or more rounds for a rifle, in conjunction with the trade-off of the gun with more rounds being the less effective 22lr.

More for the rifle.

[Jonsaiga]

Given the parameters in the original post and considering this is strictly a Wilderness Survival scenario.... I would most likely opt for a Glock 17 9mm pistol and 20" barreled .22lr for my rifle choice. If .22lr wasn't a mandatory choice in this scenario I would opt for a 16" .22WMR rifle instead personally. If the given scenario were to include a possible human hostile element, societal breakdown, WROL, etc...... I would be more inclined to choose a centerfire rifle with a .22lr handgun instead or at least include a .22lr conversion unit for the Glock. Different strokes for different folks.

[Guest Wildogre]

I think I would have to go with something like a Browning Buckmark Hunter 7" barrel and an optic and then a Mossberg MVP Patrol 5.56 also with an optic. Both have iron sights and  ammo is light (ish). 

[Guest The Itis]

Still on the fence for me, the larger cal rifle has a usable range advantage, but overall would have fewer rounds since larger cal handgun rounds are smaller. Not sure if the large cal handgun / 22lr rifle combo would have you set to hunt larger game, and a long barrel 22lr handgun isn't too far off a 22lr rifle for hunting purposes.

 

Wonder if there are any tables that list how many rounds per pound or how many pounds 100 rounds weighs in the various calibers.

[nightrunner]

For hunting large game it depends on the round you are using and the range. For instance, as far as effective range, the .45acp is only ethical on deer sized game to 35-40yards, where as the .44 mag is good to 100yards and the .460SW is good past 200+yards, then you have rifle caliber revolvers and single shots but im sure you are interested in those for this purpose.

The main advantage that a .22rifle has over a .22 handgun with optic is the stock. In a survival situation you are already stressed and if hungry your losing your fine motor skills such as holding a pistol steady. The game you hunt with a .22 is already small, makes for an easy miss. Honestly if you are bugging out to a location you dont have the time to kill and field dress a deer much less prepare and then carry all that weight, and a centerfire cartridge going off makes alot of noise that you dont need. The handgun will likely be defense only but a .357mag is also capable of taking deer within 75yards. Also, check around, the vast majority of shots taken in this region hunting are well inside of 100yards. Only ones farther than that are from people hunting across fields.

Worst casr you could make do with a .22 pistol and a .357mag revolver and use the weight savings on more ammo. And if you wanted to use shotshell ammo, it works much better in revolvers than autoloaders.

[JAB]

Not sure why .22LR is a 'given'.  Personally, I'd rather have one of my .22WMR firearms in a SHTF situation.  I mean, it isn't like the ammo is that much bulkier/heavier but I believe that the ammo construction and performance is much better.  While neither would be 'ideal', I would feel much more confident in using a rifle chambered in WMR to attempt to take white-tailed deer sized game (in a SHTF, gotta do it to survive so the rules no longer apply situation only, of course) than attempting to do so with a LR.  Because I do like the WMR chambering so much, I have a decent amount and variety of WMR ammo on-hand to choose from if the S were to HTF.

 

If WMR is allowed, then I would be sore tempted to go with a long gun in WMR and pair it with a double action .357 revolver with a 4 inch barrel (good compromise of 'using' the magnum potential and still being able to somewhat conceal.)  If WMR is not allowed, then I would likely go with my Henry lever action .22LR and the same .357 revolver.

 

I'd choose the Henry over a semiauto because I am much more accurate with it using only iron sights than I generally am with semiauto rifles.  In a SHTF situation, I want something I could shoot well and accurately with iron sights only.  The Henry is also extremely light weight.  Another advantage is that I could use .22LR, .22L, or.22S.  I could also use shotshells or colibri without worrying about whether or not the ammo would cycle the action.  I figure the use I would have for the .22 would not necessitate a high rate of fire (although with practice one can fire a lever gun pretty quickly) or fast/combat reloading.

 

Of course, if the goal is simply 'getting away from the big cities' and I am at home (where these guns would be, anyway) then I'm good as I would already be away from the big cities.  No need to go anywhere and I would have all my firearms as options for use.

Edited July 29, 2013 by JAB

[Guest The Itis]

Good point with the WMR, thought of it, but just felt it would be limiting to suggest 22wmr handgun / large cal rifle in the question, as there are fewer 22wmr handguns, it would have skewed the answers.

Didn't seem to change your answer though, whether 22lr or wmr, you'd choose 22 long gun and larger cal handgun.
The "getting away from the cities" point was a bad attempt to get people to stop thinking about relying on what they scavenge. Obviously if scavenging finds were for some reason so certain, it wouldn't matter as much how much ammo you brought.

[RichardR]

A shotgun is more versitable w/regards to being a "game getter" so the added bulk/weight of the shells would be worth it to me, as I can guarantee that with a shotgun at my disposal my caloric intake in a survival scenario would be doubled prehaps even tripled vs using any other rifle/pistol cartridge of any caliber.

.22LR is a great little round, but most game does not sit still long enough to line up your sights, anyone who has ever done a lot of small game hunting knows this, a shotgun will easily take "a rabbit on the run" or a squirrel who disappears up into their nest, or a startled quail flying off, etc that a .22LR had no hope of hitting.

[JAB]

A shotgun is more versitable w/regards to being a "game getter" so the added bulk/weight of the shells would be worth it to me, as I can guarantee that with a shotgun at my disposal my caloric intake in a survival scenario would be doubled prehaps even tripled vs using any other rifle/pistol cartridge of any caliber.

.22LR is a great little round, but most game does not sit still long enough to line up your sights, anyone who has ever done a lot of small game hunting knows this, a shotgun will easily take "a rabbit on the run" or a squirrel who disappears up into their nest, or a startled quail flying off, etc that a .22LR had no hope of hitting.

 

I agree about the versatility of a shotgun and, like you, I would also likely at least strongly consider one for my SHTF long gun choice.  That said, I do think there is a valid argument for having a .22 (WMR or LR), too.

 

There is something I have read in other 'survival scenario' threads, maybe on this forum or maybe on other forums (or, maybe, both.)  I will present that idea in my own thoughts/words:

 

If you can, either step outside right now or look out a window.  How many deer do you see?  How many rabbits?  How many squirrels?  Depending on where you are, you might see one or two critters from the list.  Maybe.  Now, how many birds do you see?  I don't just mean doves or other, normal 'food source' birds.  I mean how many birds, period - from crows to cardinals to wrens, sparrows, even little goldfinches.  In a survival situation, those birds are all potential sources of meat.  Further, they are much more plentiful, much more ubiquitous and would likely be much easier to 'harvest'.  Now, myself, I really like seeing/hearing little birds and under normal circumstances wouldn't dream of hurting one.  If it came down to starving, though, then it would be songbird soup all the way.  Although shotguns are used effectively for taking things like doves, duck and other mid-sized to large birds 'on the wing', I believe the problem with a shotgun would be that, with the really small (yet more plentiful and widely available) birds, you might end up with more lead than meat in the pot.  Luckily, such small birds often perch on a branch, limb or power line and sit fairly still, making them pretty easy pickings for a good .22 without destroying as much of the meat.  As a 'bonus', one could probably take little birds like that using colibris or super colibris and keep things a lot quieter than a shotgun.  Just a thought.

Edited July 30, 2013 by JAB

[Guest The Itis]

Again, not discussing the merits of a shotgun. For the question, I've ruled out shotguns because of the bulkiness of the ammo. By volume, one 3" shotgun shell might equal about 30 22lr rounds or something like that. I am not one to obsess over exceptions such as "what if you have to shoot a sparrow that is flying by" and make those the basis for decision making. Like above poster said, critters do stop. Running critters may be a problem if you need to get within birdshot/buckshot range, but they may not notice you at 22lr/wmr range.

I think I'm leaning toward a 22lr handgun and large cal rifle. I'm imagining the 22lr handgun will cover like 90% of your shooting needs and the rest by the rifle.

A suppressor for the 22lr would be very useful, and I guess at rifle ranges the need for a suppressor is diminished. Trading 100 rounds of 22lr space for a suppressor would be worth it.

Edited July 30, 2013 by The Itis

[Moped]

 Looking at my collection, I would select my Remington 521 and my Ruger Blackhawk .357/9mm convertible.   I am cheating, I know, buI I don't care.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Moped

[Superman]

12gauge and a Serbu super shorty for the pistol.