(Help My) New Idea (Off the Ground)

[GlockSpock]

I have an idea of a gun related product that I would like to see manufactured but currently don't. Therefore, I have designed it myself. However, I am curious (intimidated) about patent information. I am far from revealing what the idea is. Honestly, I don't yet know if it is even something you could patent. In a nutshell, here is something I wonder about:

 

Lets say you have item A (in this case we will use a common everyday mug). Then you have item B (in this case we will use a carry handle from an AR-15). If you take A and combine it with B, can you patent it? This example is exactly what Joe (Bimmerfreak) has done with his BattleMug.

 

My conundrum (that I wonder about) is that my idea exists in a certain form on the market. Yet, my idea is exact specifications that would make item A work perfectly with items B and possibly C/D/Etc. Item A can already work with items B-Etc. However, my idea makes all of them play nice and efficiently.

 

I just wonder about things such as this, and whether they can be patented. Also, if it isn't something that can be patented, I suppose it could still be manufactured as long as it isn't violating other patents, right?

 

Ultimately, after my idea is "mine" and no one can steal it, I will probably use "Kickstarter" to propagate and fund it. There are a lot of specifics that I would like to discuss on here about it, but I still want it "mine" first. After that, perhaps I can gather input about what you all would like specifically. Hopefully this can work, but I have no experience in this field but have always wanted to "invent" something. Any input will be very greatly appreciated!

[MacGyver]

2013 thinking in the startup space goes something like this:

 

1. Patents are unduly burdensome and expensive for (most) startup ideas.  You're going to want some validation of your product before you go to the (at least) 5-figure expense of getting a patent.

2. Filing for a provisional patent and thus registering your idea is okay if your idea is really unique, but understand that your burning a lot of cycles on this instead of spending those same cycles marketing, selling and validating the usefulness of your product.

3. As soon as you prove there's a viable market, competitors are going to come out of the woodwork with similar products thus likely making your patent worthless anyway.  This sounds dire, but don't kid yourself.  Startups don't have money to litigate patent cases.

 

As such, execution is what really matters.  As the old saying goes, "An idea is not a mockup.  A mockup is not a prototype. A prototype is not a product. A product is not a business. And, a business is not profits."

 

Your kickstarter idea is probably the way to go.  Good ideas with functional prototypes that serve a market seem to get funded pretty well these days.

[GlockSpock]

2013 thinking in the startup space goes something like this:

 

1. Patents are unduly burdensome and expensive for (most) startup ideas.  You're going to want some validation of your product before you go to the (at least) 5-figure expense of getting a patent.

2. Filing for a provisional patent and thus registering your idea is okay if your idea is really unique, but understand that your burning a lot of cycles on this instead of spending those same cycles marketing, selling and validating the usefulness of your product.

3. As soon as you prove there's a viable market, competitors are going to come out of the woodwork with similar products thus likely making your patent worthless anyway.  This sounds dire, but don't kid yourself.  Startups don't have money to litigate patent cases.

 

As such, execution is what really matters.  As the old saying goes, "An idea is not a mockup.  A mockup is not a prototype. A prototype is not a product. A product is not a business. And, a business is not profits."

 

Your kickstarter idea is probably the way to go.  Good ideas with functional prototypes that serve a market seem to get funded pretty well these days.

 

So what you are essentially saying is (unless someone came up with a revolutionary idea, such as a way to fuel a car from used soda cans), skip the patent, go straight to prototyping and funding, and then start selling?

[peejman]

So what you are essentially saying is (unless someone came up with a revolutionary idea, such as a way to fuel a car from used soda cans), skip the patent, go straight to prototyping and funding, and then start selling?

 

Yes, except you need to do research and make darn sure you're not violating someone else's patent.  You can search the patent database, though it can be very confusing and difficult to find what you're looking for.  http://patft.uspto.gov/

 

Big companies employ people who specifically try to find ways around their competitor's patents.  I know because I used to do it.

 

 

SIG's AR arm brace thingy is a good example.  I'm told that some guy on arfcom thought of that several years ago and make a prototype for himself.  Some folks thought it was a cool idea but he didn't do anything else with it.  Lo and behold... SIG markets one a little while later.

[gun sane]

Lets say you have item A (in this case we will use a common everyday mug). Then you have item B (in this case we will use a carry handle from an AR-15). If you take A and combine it with B, can you patent it? This example is exactly what Joe (Bimmerfreak) has done with his BattleMug.

 

True, the Battlemug is only a patented design.  Dress a public domain mug up in an AK-47 outfit and maybe they'll sell like crazy.  Unless someone beat you to it.

[MacGyver]

So what you are essentially saying is (unless someone came up with a revolutionary idea, such as a way to fuel a car from used soda cans), skip the patent, go straight to prototyping and funding, and then start selling?

For the very small stuff, I would say yes. 

[Vistar]

IANAL -- Think of a patent as a hunting license. If you have the money to enforce it (buy the legal support) it could be of some value. If you cannot enforce it, it is like having the hunting licnese without a gun or ammo. Be aware as implied above, having a patent doesn't make an item any more or less marketable. If an item involves a unique process or technology that would be key to manufacturing your product, or other similar products, having and enforcing a patent might be worthwhile to protect your invention from competitors. What you describe sounds more like a design issue. There are design patents, but they are often difficult to enforce. You might consider making and selling some prototypes, documenting the sale and shipping date, and then, if your design is first-of-its-kind and not similar to other designs, you would have some protection by common law. Saving the documentation establishes "first use" so that if someone copies your idea, you can still go hunting to protect your intellecual property. That said, be sure to do your homework. Make sure a similar design is not already being sold. If you copy someone else's idea, whether intentional or not intentional, you can become the rabbit rather than the hunter.

[Jesse]

How the Battlemug selling anyways?

[KOM2]

$189 for a cup or $45 for polymer. Always thought that's nuts.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[DaveS]

When I applied for a patent, the first thing I did (was advised by an attorney) was draw up my design, print it out, put it in an envelope and mailed it to my self. The envelope got time and date stamped, it is un-open and if a problem arises, I have a date and time to fight with.

 

Dave

[Oh Shoot]

SIG's AR arm brace thingy is a good example.  I'm told that some guy on arfcom thought of that several years ago and make a prototype for himself.  Some folks thought it was a cool idea but he didn't do anything else with it.  Lo and behold... SIG markets one a little while later.

 

The creator of that, Alex Bosco, has stated that he has an agreement with Sig to market the device. They didn't steal it.

 

- OS

[peejman]

The creator of that, Alex Bosco, has stated that he has an agreement with Sig to market the device. They didn't steal it.

- OS

Ah. Good for him.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Patents can sho' be a waste of money. Fella, I used to work for in AR, invented an effective way of stacking lumber at a sawmill. Spent $12K gettin' the patent, back in the 70's. Someone came along and saw what he had made and it was no time before it was on the market, just built slightly different and rendered his $12K as wasted time and money and didn't make a damn dime off of it. I've had fishing lure companies rip me off. I shoulda just done it myself but really couldn't at the time.

[mikegideon]

I have my name on a US patent with another guy. Our company actually owns the patent. It cost a buttload of money, and took a few years for the grant. The decision to pursue a patent is a complex one. Unless you're a big company, you probably can't afford to defend it. It really depends on the size of the market, though. Individuals seem to do best just selling their patents to a well funded company if the patent has any true worth.

[GlockSpock]

I've done some patent searching. I couldn't find anything remotely what I'm interested in, but Googling my idea showed me some stuff that is essentially the same idea, I just feel it can be done much more efficiently and an aspect of modularity could easily be added. Everyone loves modular things, right?

[mikegideon]

I've done some patent searching. I couldn't find anything remotely what I'm interested in, but Googling my idea showed me some stuff that is essentially the same idea, I just feel it can be done much more efficiently and an aspect of modularity could easily be added. Everyone loves modular things, right?

 

I had a preliminary patent search done by a patent law firm once. The document was the size of the old Nashville Yellow Pages, maybe a little thicker. A lot of things aren't patented though. Then it's just a matter of getting it to market and well established before somebody copies it. The whole subject makes my head hurt :). If you're talking about huge money, it's a real snake pit.

[Dolomite_supafly]

You can get a provisional patent on pretty much anything. This protects you for one years while you prototype and do market analysis. As a matter of fact most people who eventually get a utility or design patent get a provisional because it gives them one more year of protection. The cost of a provisional patent is $110. All the paperwork is available online. You will need to also submit technical drawings as well as descriptions with you application. The description and technical drawings is where the cost comes in because it generally takes engineers and technical writers to complete that. I have been quoted $10,000 to start the process.

 

It is possible to do your own technical drawings and descriptions but it takes a long time and can be very frustrating. I know I have a packet I have had for years waiting to be sent off. I did everything for it myself because there is no way I could pay someone $10K to do something I was pretty sure I could do myself. As far as the product there are some people on the board who have them, use them and think they work great. I have even looked at having them made in China and selling them for 1/2 the nearest product that does something similar. In the end it isn't worth it to me and I will likely either just burn the application or fill the paperwork out in someone else's name and mail it to them so they can have it.

 

The patent office recently changed their rules on who owns a patent. Who ever submits it first owns the patent. Even if a person has been making or designed the item decades earlier then someone comes in and patents it the person who submitted owns the rights at that point. Before there was a lot of squabbling over who owned what but not anymore. The person who submits first owns the rights to it.