Diabetic having attack is ripped from her car by police

[whitewolf001]

Gotta say though for this vid, there was no need for that sort of behavior, even if they attempted to get her to respond, they ASSUMED but did not assume the worst as in look for medical wounds or anything of the sort, they dragged her out without knowledge of any injuries whatsoever.

[daddyo]

I couldn't watch the video.

 

My son has diabetes, and I'm really not sure I could control myself if an LEO did something like this to him.

[Dustbuster]

Favts? What facts are you talking about?

The facts are these cops treated this woman like a piece of garbage. Unless all of these cops were deaf dumb and blind They should have been able to see that she needed help.

This wasn't some felony arrest with a gunfight that had just ended; It was just a stupid auto accident. Speaking of which, I was a volunteer EMT With my fire department for many years. The last thing I would do to someone involved in an accident Would be to drag them out of their car, handcuff them, and then lay them facedown on the hot asphalt.

There are a few people on this forum who defend cops more than I do, but what these cops did cannot be defended.

there is no reason for dragging her out like a piece of trash. 

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

just a quick search to put the hot pavement into perspective,

would you want your face on scalding pavement,

Sante Fe, NM had a recorded high of 79 degrees on July 19, 2013.
At 77 degrees, asphalt in the sun has been measured at 125 degrees,
At 124° in 2 minutes 2nd Degree Burns with No Irreversible Damage

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/santa-fe-nm/87501/july-weather/329558
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7486363
http://antiscald.com/prevention/general_info/table.php

[daddyo]

But if you see a car plow into another car and the person appears to be drunk; I can assure you that your first thought won’t be; “maybe she is having a medical emergency”. 

 

Are you kidding me? That wouldn't even enter someone's mind?

[NRA]

The facts are we do not know what happened before the 2:06 clip we saw posted by the media.  Did LE follow this person for 5 miles and did she almost kill 37 people?  It took 1 minute of her on the pavement before they realized she had a medical issue?   Was she then placed in the car were the A/C was on to wait for EMS?  It is not unusual for EMS to take 30 minutes or more to arrive on scene.  None of us were there we just do not know the facts.  The footage was spliced and edited to show what the media wanted to show/spin for us.  If the media posted the normal anti 2nd amendment rhetoric they normally do Most of on this forum would also be up in arms.

[Spots]

My bad. Don't know what I was thinking. Just getting really tired of reports like this.

Just like with stories of gun owners; it’s the media grandstanding. She plowed into an innocent freaking guy sitting at a light. She could have killed him.

First thing you do at an accident scene is make it safe for the victims and the people in the area. Even before treating anyone you turn the vehicles ignitions off to keep from having a fire and make sure no drunks or injured people are still in control of a vehicle. . It took them a minute to figure out what was going on.

Unresponsive women just involved in an auto accident. Instead of turning off car and removing keys from ignition, lets drag her out and flop her down on the pavement. Screw basic first aid knowledge, like don't move an accident victim if they may have neck or back injuries. Its much more important to secure the person drive because they MIGHT be drunk. If I see an accident my first thought and action is gonna be to render aid until first responders arrive. Not drag the unconscious women from the car. If thats your first thought, maybe you should reevaluate how you percevive things.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[ted]

Jest a q , I don't feel like she had to have the macho knee in the back routine after a wreak skinny old woman not moving , didn't look like mutch of a threat to me . Or is that jest routine , macho knee thing that all cops do when some one is down any way.

[Spots]

The facts are we do not know what happened before the 2:06 clip we saw posted by the media. Did LE follow this person for 5 miles and did she almost kill 37 people? It took 1 minute of her on the pavement before they realized she had a medical issue? Was she then placed in the car were the A/C was on to wait for EMS? It is not unusual for EMS to take 30 minutes or more to arrive on scene. None of us were there we just do not know the facts. The footage was spliced and edited to show what the media wanted to show/spin for us. If the media posted the normal anti 2nd amendment rhetoric they normally do Most of on this forum would also be up in arms.

And because it involves LEO a select few here will defend their actions no matter what, because they are "brothers". As a Marine, Iam in one of the tightest brotherhoods in the world. We always have each others back. But if a fellow Marine did something like that, I'd be the first to kick his ass and reccomend him for NJP. Brotherhood doesnt mean protecting bad apples and idiots. Thats why law enforcement is in the shape its in now.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[ted]

She could have hit her head on some thing during the crash that could have made some one act that way also .

[Defender]

I despise the media mostly.  But sometimes getting this stuff out in public may cause an investigation that might have not  been otherwise.  Im sure the cops were purposely painted in as bad a light as possible, thats the way the media works.  But I also admit that perhaps they acted prematurely in yanking her out of the vehicle that way, at least. No way they coulda suspected diabetic shock, but like others on here have already said, she could have easily had spinal or head injuries that would have been exacerbated by yanking her out like that...absent and threat of a fire, I think Id leave an unconscous person lay or sit til EMTs arrived.   End result, it appears no permenant harm done, possibly a learning moment for all.  One thing I WILL say, though, and this from a former LEO, I have seen all too many of my peers take some of this stuff too personally, tending to want to "punish" the suspect a little, rather than stay professional.  I think its a natural tendency, probably human nature, especially after you get used to seeing too many guilty people get off.  But it cannot be allowed to happen.  Staying completely professional is the only way.  And dont kill the cop for something like this, some good counseling can help.  In these days, there is absolutely NO expectation of any kind of public privacy at all. So everyone should be prepared for their actions to be viewed, and viewed again and over analyzed.  Not saying dont do the right thing, but am saying stay professional.

[Randall53]

Stupid FK'N COPS.   How hot was the road she was laid down on face first on July 23rd in New Mexico???  This Sh&t makes me want to puke. Cowards and POS.

 

She should sue their asses individually in civil court and take everything they've got.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Randall53

[TMF]

I get the whole "if you hear hooves don't assume zebras" thing, but still, had she been drunk would laying her on the pavement be appropriate even then? Whether she had committed a crime or not the officers still have an obligation not to cause injury or exacerbate an injury unless it is necessary to subdue a suspect. Didn't look like she needed to be subdued. I guess I just don't understand that mentality. If I had to guess, her treatment was punitive for not opening the door when they commanded, but that shouldn't matter, should it?

It's a good case for departments to train their officers on. I don't know if I would consider any of this to be negligent to the point of being criminal, but what I do know is that if that had been my wife I'd be coming for the ass or badge of every one of those cops on scene.

[BigK]

Looking forward to more facts before I join the lynch mob. I'm most curious to know:

1) How severe the wreck was. I see her hood is buckled, but can't see any damage to the truck. Is this amount of damage consistent with head/spinal injury? Seat belt? Air bags?
3) Does she have a known history of this condition? Was this an unforeseen first time attack? If not, should she be driving with such a condition? Public safety? Was she wearing a Med-Alert bracelet?
4) Did she show any signs of being burnt by the asphalt? Was it really too hot or is this just overreaction?
5) Assume a drunk had been pulled from the car instead, would this be inappropriate? Maybe I'm desensitized, but it didn't look overly rough to me. Edited July 25, 2013 by BigK

[Guest Keal G Seo]

While this didn't look overly rough to me it did look wrong. Fact here is that this was an auto accident and spinal injuries can appear in 5 mph+ wrecks. Officer should have busted passenger window but not for unlocking the doors and dragging her out. Should have just pulled the keys and maybe even try to stabilize her in place (hold her still) to keep the "drunk" from moving around and making any injuries worse. Criminal negligence at best. Fired, nah maybe just some training. Sued, for sure...jurisdiction and the officers.

[TMF]

Looking forward to more facts before I join the lynch mob. I'm most curious to know:


1) How severe the wreck was. I see her hood is buckled, but can't see any damage to the truck. Is this amount of damage consistent with head/spinal injury? Seat belt? Air bags?

3) Does she have a known history of this condition? Was this an unforeseen first time attack? If not, should she be driving with such a condition? Public safety? Was she wearing a Med-Alert bracelet?

4) Did she show any signs of being burnt by the asphalt? Was it really too hot or is this just overreaction?

5) Assume a drunk had been pulled from the car instead, would this be inappropriate? Maybe I'm desensitized, but it didn't look overly rough to me.

Drunk or not or whether there is a history of this on her part is irrelevant to the treatment she should receive after an accident. If a drunk gets into a crash and injure themselves it doesn't mean they deserve more injury at the hands of officers. It would be different if the drunk was trying to get away or was combative. Obviously she was neither, so why take a woman who may need medical attention or may be suffering from a medical condition, leave her face down on the pavement and walk away? Not as if I have sympathy for drunk drivers, but the officers still have a professional job to do and I don't think that is what I'm seeing here.

Of course, the other side of the coin is that these officers are people too and they make mistakes. This may be a relatively small mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. When stuff like that happens the public deserves to hold their public servants responsible. Then the other thing is to ask yourself a question, "what if this was your wife or daughter?" I realize that is an emotionally charged question, but I think we would all be seeing red if we saw a family member suffering a serious medical condition being left on the hot pavement face down.

[Will H]

I think the first mistake is the fact that she was driving a car at all.  Ok, if this was her first episode I can buy that, but if it was not she was taking a chance with every person around her.  If this was not her first attack she should not have been driving, and should never drive again now.  I am not saying the cops were right, just that she might have been wrong too. 

[Jesse]

I watch cops every night on tv, and they must edit these videos out. Cause on tv the cops never do this.

[TMF]

I think the first mistake is the fact that she was driving a car at all.  Ok, if this was her first episode I can buy that, but if it was not she was taking a chance with every person around her.  If this was not her first attack she should not have been driving, and should never drive again now.  I am not saying the cops were right, just that she might have been wrong too. 

 

There is a chance of that, of course.  But the cops on scene wouldn't know that, and even if they did it doesn't in any way explain their actions.  I'm not familiar enough with diabetics to know whether one is so severe to limit their privilage to drive, but certainly there are a whole lotta diabetics out there with licenses.  Emergencies happen sometimes that you can't foresee.  An example, I spontaneously lost consciousness once walking down a hall.  If that had occurred in my truck I would have certainly crashed.  It only happened once, and I guess it could happen again at another point in my life.  If it does, do I deserved to be handcuffed and put facedown on the concrete?  

[whitewolf001]

I think the first mistake is the fact that she was driving a car at all.  Ok, if this was her first episode I can buy that, but if it was not she was taking a chance with every person around her.  If this was not her first attack she should not have been driving, and should never drive again now.  I am not saying the cops were right, just that she might have been wrong too. 

 

Tell that to hundreds of DUI offenders, not saying you're wrong, just saying. They have the same right as everyone else do they not? Let's play a what if game, let's say someone who is handicapped to a wheel chair has a vehicle that is capable of being driven by them. Well, something happens and they have an accident, the casue to blame is this persons handicap. Do we prohibit them from driving ever again? It's a bit of apples and oranges but still along the same concept. My friend is a diabetic and has kept it suppressed with running and he lost 50lbs to keep his under control since his accident. Anyone who knows someone with Diabetes can attest that it can just drop out of no where at any time, so if that's the case screw em all, just take their license right? Seems to me the case you're trying to make.

[RobertNashville]

Looking forward to more facts before I join the lynch mob. I'm most curious to know:

1) How severe the wreck was. I see her hood is buckled, but can't see any damage to the truck. Is this amount of damage consistent with head/spinal injury? Seat belt? Air bags?
3) Does she have a known history of this condition? Was this an unforeseen first time attack? If not, should she be driving with such a condition? Public safety? Was she wearing a Med-Alert bracelet?
4) Did she show any signs of being burnt by the asphalt? Was it really too hot or is this just overreaction?
5) Assume a drunk had been pulled from the car instead, would this be inappropriate? Maybe I'm desensitized, but it didn't look overly rough to me.

I see nor can I imagine any "facts" that can justify what the cops did to this woman.

 

1. You cannot tell how badly someone may be hurt just by looking at them or at the damage. I was in an accident this past April (lady turned left in front of me) that totaled my 2012 Nismo 370Z and the much large car of the woman who turned left in front of me...I walked away with a couple of scratches; she had to be taken by chopper to Vanderbilt where she spent over 3 weeks in the hospital.

 

3 [2]. Regardless of whether her condition was known or whether she should or shouldn't have been driving is a matter to be dealt with later; at the time of the accident she was an accident VICTIM with potential severe injuries and should have been treated that way.

 

4. Temperature of the asphalt?  This was New Mexico in July...what do you think the temp was! Hell, forget it was NM...how hot does the asphalt get here! How long can you leave your face planted on the blacktop on a July day...do you think you'll be burnt?  Why would that even mater anyway...there is ZERO reason to put someone face down on asphalt on a July day, in TN or NM.

 

5. Doesn't matter if she was drunk or not...drunks can be injured in an accident too...sure; the drunk is allegedly a criminal and the other (medical issue) isn't but once the accident happened the person was an accident VICTIM with the potential of severe injuries.

 

This was just a traffic accident; not the end of a high speed chase or a felony stop...short or a fire in a vehicle or some other imminent danger of death there is simply NO reason to drag a potentially injured person out of a car like that...it's beyond irresponsible and these cops should be disciplined for doing it.  Further, if this is a result of their training or lack of it then the city needs to be disciplined too.

Edited July 25, 2013 by RobertNashville

[BryanP]

If a person has a medical condition that can cause the death of an innocent person they should not be driving…. Period.

 

Was the guy in truck injured?

 

Okay, let's take away the DL of every diabetic in the US.  That's bout 8% of the population.

 

If properly managed, passing out from diabetes is a low probability event.  Rather less likely than someone causing a wreck because they're too busy dicking around on their cell phone.

Edited July 25, 2013 by BryanP

[BigK]

None of us know all the facts, just what the media wanted us to see. They successfully make it appear that a potentially injured victim was man-handled by the cops and her flesh seared on the scalding pavement and the lynch mob takes the bait every time.

 

I'm not even going to dignify the "scalding pavement" claim with a response beyond saying the avg. temp that day was 10 degrees hotter in Nashville than it was in Santa Fe and my flesh would not be seared to the pavement in 60 seconds. I'm not saying it was cool and soothing, but it wasn't "fry an egg on it" hot either.

 

Those few seconds of footage don't show everything that happened. If anyone thinks it's SOP for cops to drag accident victims from a car and cuff them, I don't think we can continue to communicate on an intelligent level. The worst cops out there would not risk further injury to someone just because they thought she was drunk.  Some of you act like it's impossible that they observed signs of her being ambulatory and/or seemingly uninjured inside the car.

 

For all we know she may have been moving around inside, appearing to almost anyone to be drunk, too drunk to open the door or comply with commands. Regardless, she wasn't dragged out roughly and slammed on the ground. I guess they're supposed to ask a non-responsive suspect (which is what she appeared to be to them) until they finally comply and remove themselves from their vehicle?

Edited July 25, 2013 by BigK

[RobertNashville]

None of us know all the facts, just what the media wanted us to see. They successfully make it appear that a potentially injured victim was man-handled by the cops and her flesh seared on the scalding pavement and the lynch mob takes the bait every time.

 

I'm not even going to dignify the "scalding pavement" claim with a response beyond saying the avg. temp that day was 10 degrees hotter in Nashville than it was in Santa Fe and my flesh would not be seared to the pavement in 60 seconds. I'm not saying it was cool and soothing, but it wasn't "fry an egg on it" hot either.

 

Those few seconds of footage don't show everything that happened. If anyone thinks it's SOP for cops to drag accident victims from a car and cuff them, I don't think we can continue to communicate on an intelligent level. The worst cops out there would not risk further injury to someone just because they thought she was drunk.  Some of you act like it's impossible that they observed signs of her being ambulatory and/or seemingly uninjured inside the car.

 

For all we know she may have been moving around inside, appearing to almost anyone to be drunk, too drunk to open the door or comply with commands. Regardless, she wasn't dragged out roughly and slammed on the ground. I guess they're supposed to ask a non-responsive suspect (which is what she appeared to be to them) until they finally comply and remove themselves from their vehicle?

Sorry...I was an EMT long enough to know that you NEVER move a potentially injured person PERIOD unless there is a very significant reason to do so (i.e. the car is on fire, etc.). Police officers who respond to traffic accidents day after day should damn well know that.

 

These cops were irresponsible and they had better be damn thankful that their irresponsibility didn't cause her more injury.

Edited July 25, 2013 by RobertNashville

[JAB]

I have to laugh (derisively) when someone says that crap like this was simply a 'mistake' on the part of LEO (or anyone else.)  My response is always along the lines of, "Oops - I didn't mean to yank a woman who wasn't posing a threat to anyone out of her car, put her on the pavement and handcuff her.  My bad.  I made a mistake - but she didn't ask 'how high' when we told her to jump so it was kind of her fault, you know."  Sorry, that isn't a 'mistake' because it was done quite on purpose and by someone who should have had full knowledge that it wasn't necessary.

 

A mistake is something like shooting a suspect because the officer mistook the airsoft gun he was holding for a real one.  That is a mistake, and a justifiable one.  Yanking this woman out of her car, etc. was not a mistake.  Instead, it was an example of stupidity brought on by poor judgement and, likely, a lack of professionalism and inability on the part of the officers to control their emotions - there is a difference.

 

I also have to chuckle a little when people suggest that re-training is 'enough' to deal with cops who could have brought about the death or serious, bodily injury of someone who was not posing a threat.  We have 'zero tolerance' policies for everything else.  Personally, I'd like to see 'zero tolerance' for cops who engage in activity such as this.

Edited July 25, 2013 by JAB