My Marine, tax stamp, etc.

[Steelharp]

Question. My son had his leave approved, and he will be home for a couple weeks in August. He e-mailed me about SBR versions of the SIG rifles he now owns. Is it even possible for him, given the short time frame, to do this while he's home? Is approval time shorter for active military? Is it something that he HAS to be here to complete, or he just starts it?

 

Never dealt with an NFA transaction, so I have no clue.

[173rdABN]

He will need to be there in person. Needs finger prints taken, and a cheif of police or sheriff to sign the form and a passport photo taken if he is doing the transfer (form 4) or making the conversion himself (form 1). And no one gets special treatment unfortunately. It's 6 months for a wait right now average. He can do the paperwork when he is home, and next time he comes home, he can pick it up if the paperwork is approved or he can assembly it. Depending how it all works out for him and when it gets approved. But, be advised, there is legal complications If its done as an individual and he leaves the gun with you. It might be best for him to put the gun in a trust and you on the trust so you also can have access to it and store it for him with no worries legally.

Re-read what you said. If he owns it, and will be attaching the stock or putting a shorter barrel on it, then it's a form 1. It needs to be completed and signed off on by the cheif LEO or sheriff In the town he has an address in, like registered living address.

Every time he transports it out of state to visit, or whatever vacation he's going on with it, he has to fill out a sheet of paper listing dates it's out of state, where its going, who's transporting it, and needs about 3 weeks to get approved by the ATF. Has to be approved to transport. Welcome to the uber crappy rules of class III... Edited July 24, 2013 by 173rdABN

[Steelharp]

Is the fingerprinting, etc., done at the beginning of the process, while he's home? Also, he's stationed in Africa, so it'll probably be a year before he gets to come home again. Can he do everything he needs to do while he's home, then maybe pick up the completed paperwork the next time he's here, and do his buying then?

[173rdABN]

Does he have the gun in his possession? Like at your house already? Or just knows what one he wants to buy?

If he has a legal residence in the US still yes, it's more than perfect for him to do the paperwork when he is home, and when he comes home next, he will be approved and can get his gun if he doesn't already own it, or can convert it if he's making his own.

Yes. Finger prints, passport photos, and signed paperwork is done at the beginning, then submitted at once. Edited July 24, 2013 by 173rdABN

[173rdABN]

If he is stationed in Africa, and gets the gun next time he is home, and leaves it with you, that might cause legal issues. It's been discussed to death here. If you know the safe combo where it's stored that could cause issues. It's pretty lame. He should really look into a trust and put your name on the trust.

[Steelharp]

No, he does not own one. What he does own, and I have here, are a regular SIG 5.56 and a .308. He doesn't want to convert those, he just has been doing some looking in his free time over there and has apparently found that there are SBR versions of those with 10" barrels. He would like to buy those. Where does he have to go to do paperwork when he's here next month?

[173rdABN]

You'll have to find a store with them in stock, or able to get you one while he is home. You'll need it's serial number. I know the outpost armory had a sbr sig 551 last time I was there. They can walk you through the steps no problem. I have bought a couple class 3 items from them before. More than helpful when it comes to helping out with the paperwork.

[Steelharp]

Thanks, brother. I will pass all this along to him.

[Caster]

This is a case in point why an NFA trust is better. You and him both could be on the trust and you can deal with the paper work and he can foot the bill and enjoy it when he gets home from kickin' azz over seas.


BTW, tell him I said thank you for his service.

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

Steelharp,

 

SIG's NFA side is next to impossible to charter... I've spoke to reps for them that didn't even know they made NFA items much alone sold them...  I tried and finally gave up....  I know they've recently got on the band wagon seeing the consumer side and value so things may have gotten better but they are not as easily available as one would hope.

 

If he's stuck on buying a factory one, you have to first find one.  If it's out of the state he is domiciled in (TN I'm assuming but wherever) it will first have to be transfered to an in-state dealer where he/you reside.  So if you find a dealer in MN who has one but it has to get to TN, dealer in MN will have to transfer the item to a TN dealer... this is done tax free but can take anywhere from 6 weeks to 4 months ... then once his dealer has it he can do the paperwork to start the process of his ownership. 

 

I think in your situation the best approach would be to get approval to MAKE an SBR (as opposed to buying one).  This way you can find a host (should be much easier than an already SBR'd in inventory item) .... you could have the rifle now and use it in its non-SBR form while you wait... or you as his father could still legally have the non-SBR rifle there and hold for him ....  then when the forms are approved he can have the barrel shortened and/or puchase a new upper.

 

Should ask which model is his looking to do?  If it's their folder models (556/551, etc.) ... a simple thing to do is to puchase a pistol version of that weapon now... apply for the form 1, when approved add a stock...   If it's their 516/716/400 AR type series you can have the barrel shortened and/or puchase a new upper when you get the approved forms.

 

Feel free to call or have him call me and I'll be happy to discuss the NFA process, pros and cons .... can go over the trust info too as 173rdABN mentioned.

 

I, as others I'm sure appreciate his service!

[hipower]

PM incoming. I'll tell you of my NFA experience.

[Steelharp]

Would it be easier, less expensive, and legal to just get uppers for the lowers he has now, as long as the proper paperwork was done?

[Caster]

Would it be easier, less expensive, and legal to just get uppers for the lowers he has now, as long as the proper paperwork was done?

 

 

If the Lower is already an SBR or a registered FA, I reckon you can put whatever you want on it.  I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a legal full auto or an SBR can wear whatever upper turns you on.  

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

Price wise, given he already has the hosts now, it should be cheaper for him to convert one of these into a SBR rather than the expense to buy a complete new weapon.  In the case of an AR15, it is a lot easier to just swap uppers.  Next easiest thing is to replace the barrel ... finally, have your original barrel cut, threaded and recrowned ... cheapest being the later since you're using your old barrel -  no parts replacements, just modifications to it ....

 

Given he'll be traveling (possibly unknown times), the piece by piece, step by step, build it yourself may afford an easier approach to get from a to z in my opinion.

 

Legality wise, the time, cost and paperwork to either "make yourself" ATF Form 1 or "transfer" ATF Form 4 is the exact same ... same requirements for fingerprints, CLEO signoff, photos, etc... same approval process and time period.  Same $200 tax stamp (make or transfer).  Approval times have been slipping up and over 6 months now... last 2 I had came in 8 months .. heard rumors a year may be the norm soon.

 

If you decide to make the SBR yourself, when you fill out the form 1, it will ask for an actual barrel length. They require you to enter this initially but Caster is correct, once the paperwork is approved and the receiver is a legal SBR, you can then put ANY length upper on it.  You'll just need to pick one to put on the paperwork.  It will ask for overall length and barrel length. Once it's approved, ATF "prefers" that you notify them in writing if anything changes (I changed length from 12" to 10", etc.) but this is NOT an actual requirement, it's just something they ask that you do and very, VERY few of us do it.

 

If he gets his paperwork approved, there's plenty of smiths around that can take his original barrel and shorten it to whatever he wants (myself included) .. it is a very simple process if you have the proper tools.  Or he can keep the original non NFA upper. The neat thing with a SBR is it is ONLY an SBR when the barrel is < 16 inches... if you were to travel interstate for instance you could simply put your 16" barreled upper back on and legally cross the state lines with no requirements to notifiy anyone - as long as the weapon was legal in the destination.

 

If he ever decides to sell the weapon and has trouble finding a buyer for a SBR, he can always put a 16" barrel back on it and sell it just like you would any other rifle.  When we remove items from the NFA registry, it is not required again but this is a time when we DO send a letter stating we wish to have item x, serial # y removed from the NFA registry as it no longer meets the specifications of a short barreled rifle, etc..

 

ATF does require the "maker" of a new firearm to engrave their information on the receiver.  This includes your name, city and state.  So if he does a form 1, he'll have to have someone engrave this information on his lower receiver whereas, if you buy a factory SBR, it will already have the manuf. name engraved.

[Steelharp]

If the Lower is already an SBR or a registered FA, I reckon you can put whatever you want on it.  I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a legal full auto or an SBR can wear whatever upper turns you on.  

They are NOT sbr or registered anything; just regular, over the counter SIG AR's, a 516 and a 716, I think they are...

[hipower]

Steel, look like LawEnforcementSalesTn has some pretty good advice. That's what my brother-in-law and I have talked about doing with my 9mm Colt. Maybe someday we'll get around to it.