Need help identifying/valuing an old L C Smith Field Grade 20g SXS

[musicman]

Howdy folks!  Long time no see; I hope you all are doing well.

 

A co-worker of mine is trying to get some more info on his old shotgun.  As the title says, it is an L C Smith 20g side by side field grade shotgun.  In the action, I read the serial number as FW 2004XX.  Someone, he thinks it was his grandfather, etched their SSN into the side of the gun above the trigger.  :-(  I've edited that out of the picture.

 

It's cosmetically not in the best shape... lots of surface rust, some small pitting spread all over the barrel, and quite a few scratches and dings.  I believe in the past it has spent a lot of time living up to it's "field" designation! 

 

However, mechanically everything seems to be in EXCELLENT shape.  Super tight lockup with absolutely NO looseness or rattle when closed.  The safety functions properly, resetting every time the gun is opened.  Bores look nice and shiny inside, showing none of the aging the outside wears.  I have not test fired the gun yet, but the triggers seem crisp.  The only thing I can foresee is that maybe there could be some issue with the firing pin/pins, but I won't know about that until I give it a shot. 

 

So... that's pretty much everything I know... any ideas on date of manufacture, value, etc?

 

Thanks in advance for all your help!!

 

Here are pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jimbo100]

Howdy folks!  Long time no see; I hope you all are doing well.

 

A co-worker of mine is trying to get some more info on his old shotgun.  As the title says, it is an L C Smith 20g side by side field grade shotgun.  In the action, I read the serial number as FW 2004XX.  Someone, he thinks it was his grandfather, etched their SSN into the side of the gun above the trigger.  :-(  I've edited that out of the picture.

 

It's cosmetically not in the best shape... lots of surface rust, some small pitting spread all over the barrel, and quite a few scratches and dings.  I believe in the past it has spent a lot of time living up to it's "field" designation! 

 

However, mechanically everything seems to be in EXCELLENT shape.  Super tight lockup with absolutely NO looseness or rattle when closed.  The safety functions properly, resetting every time the gun is opened.  Bores look nice and shiny inside, showing none of the aging the outside wears.  I have not test fired the gun yet, but the triggers seem crisp.  The only thing I can foresee is that maybe there could be some issue with the firing pin/pins, but I won't know about that until I give it a shot. 

 

So... that's pretty much everything I know... any ideas on date of manufacture, value, etc?

 

Thanks in advance for all your help!!

 

Here are pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice shotgun.  I have an older one in 12 gauge.  They are sidelock doubles and excellent guns.  Some are ejector models and some are hand ejectors.  

 

Hunter made bicycles before their merger with or acquisition by L.C. Smith.  An early slogan was "Ride a Hunter.  Shoot a Smith." 

 

Don't take this as the gospel since I'm perfectly capable of mis-reading it but I have Col. Brophy's book on L.C. Smith shotguns and as I read it this field grade (likely a grade 00 in older models) was made in 1942.  It shows as one of 4,669 made that year.   The history of the company is convoluted.  Many records were lost and it can be confusing to me to find just the right set of numbers.    

 

If you want an expert opinion I'd take it to Game Fair Ltd. here in Nashville.  The owner , John Allen if I remember right is very knowledgeable and could verify information and give an appraisal if needed.   

[leroy]

It just dawned on me...  Drop the guys at Cherry's Fine Guns an e-mail (...with pictures...).  they may do a valuation for ya.

 

leroy

[musicman]

Thanks Jimbo and Leroy! I'll fire off an e-mail to Cherry's tonight and see where that goes. Was planning on stopping at Game Fair some time thiz week, but work just picked up so that's gonna hafta wait a bit now. :-(

It's kind of a neat gun... I think it may be mine soon! I told him what I saw some other similar examples going for on the gun sites, but he keeps insisting that he only needs a certain amount and would like it to go to someone he knows will take care of it. I told him he could probably get more, but he doesn't seem to care!

Hope the stuff I have on eBay gets good money for me this weekend!

[timthetoolman]

I have a older 12 ga version as well and it's a great shooter!

[gregintenn]

http://www.lcsmith.org/shotguns/manufacture.html

 

According to the link above, it should have been made in 1942.

 

Does it have ejectors or extractors? Looks like about 26" barrels? How are they choked?

 

I'd like to either see it in person, or see some better pictures to give an estimate, but I'm guessing it would be in the $800-$1000 range from what I see and what you've described.

[musicman]

I've been meaning for awhile to thank you all again for your advice and information, and to give you an update on where I got with everything.

 

I took it over to Hunter at Game Fair Ltd, and he was very helpful.  He took it down, looked it over and found a few non-original screws, and told me it was missing a little spring but it was an unnecessary part, so no biggie.  He checked the barrel weld and said everything seemed fine, and recommended some lower velocity/pressure 2.5" 20G shells which I happily purchased and am hoping to try out soon.  The wood, though worn with age and use showed no cracks, much to Hunter's dismay.  He said many LCs split right behind the action.  Though the gun has basically no bluing left and some light surface pitting, he considered it to be a fine shooter's grade gun that would bring $600-700 in his shop.

 

While I was there, I also brought him an old Ithaca Deerslayer with another small issue which he fixed for a VERY reasonable fee.  I really enjoyed visiting Game Fair.  It's not the kind of place I would normally go, and I simply don't have the kind of money to purchase almost anything there, no matter how much I liked some of those fancy doubles!  The nice thing about Hunter, though, was that he didn't make me feel like the low-rent loser (comparatively to his normal clientele) that I am, and took all the time in the world to answer every question I had. 

 

I purchased the gun from my friend, after I told him all the things Hunter told me, including his valuation.  For now I'm going to hold on to the gun and clean it up.  For now, at 71 years, it's the oldest gun in my collection and I think that's pretty cool.  My next oldest is 10 years younger... a Polish Mosin M44 Carbine.  The firearm hobby was not passed down in my family.  Neither my Father nor my Grandfather were shooters of any sort, so there are no family guns to be passed to me.  Finding these older guns from friends I have now is the closest thing I have to my own little piece of gun history. 

[Jimbo100]

Good to hear the rest of the story.  The Game Fair folks have always been nice to me as well and I've never bought any big ticket items there.  My own sweet Elsie was left to me by an old gentleman who was a friend of my Dad.  He was there when I shot my first squirrel at about age 8 with my new .22 and I'm now 64.

 

It was made in 1912 and still shoots well.  Looks to be in roughly the same condition as your own.  Since I knew the original owner well and treasure the gun.  It will go to my son.  

 

I no longer shoot it but could if the need arose.  2 1/2 shells are best though I shot 2 3/4 the whole time I hunted with the L.C. Your gun will be well regarded anywhere you take it from the fanciest plantations to where ever.  L.C. Smith had a unique design to the lock up (can't recall the right terms) so that they are supposed to actually lock up tighter with wear.  It was their patent and seems true with mine which feels like a new one though over 100 years old.  Have a great time with yours.   

[gregintenn]

Model 21 Winchester, Parker, LC Smith, , Lefever, and Ithaca doubles were the premier American shotguns of yesteryear. Many of them still survive after decades of hard use afield.

 

I used to trade at Game Fair when they were on West End ave. I haven't been to their new location. Judging by their inventory, I expected them to be arrogant asses, but I've been treated very well by them in the past. They always kept top shelf guns and fly rods.

 

I'm of the opinion that a proper shotgun should have two barrels. If I had deeper pockets, I'd feel the same way about rifles. I expect you'll really enjoy that one. Take it out and bust some clays, shoot some squirrels, or a myriad other things it was designed to do. You'll really appreciate the craftsmanship and quality in it that just doesn't exist in a Mossberg pump or even a Remington 1100 for that matter.

Edited August 22, 2013 by gregintenn

[musicman]

'Nuther update:

 

I got to shoot Elsie (I just came up with that... get it? L.C. ... El-see ... Elsie!) this weekend and she's a champ!  I only shot 4 shells, but each one was a pleasure.  I just have one box of 2.5" 20g shells, and I really want to shoot skeet with her, so I was really just function-testing her. 

 

For a 71 year old firearm, this one is tighter and more solid than most brand-new guns around!  Funny enough... the follower in my brand new (3rd time out) Mossberg 500 12g was giving me trouble and is in need of repair!  So much for "modern technology", huh?!

 

Jimbo, your info about these guns wearing in tighter with use sure is borne out by my gun!  I really have fallen in love with it.  I had entertained the idea of selling it to fund a couple of really nice pieces I want, but not any more. 

 

I want to keep shooting this old girl, but I also want to take it easy on her, so I would appreciate any leads you guys may have on lighter 2.5" 20g shells.  I paid $15 for the box I have now (21 rds left) and I can't afford too many at that price!  I'm also planning on joining a skeet/trap club soon.  If I can't find a better deal on these, I'll be stuck shooting my 12g guns all the time... not that that's a terrible thing!  ;-)

[gregintenn]

http://www.rstshells.com/store/p/18-20-Ga-2-1-2-Lite-Vel-1125-7-8-oz-Load.aspx

 

$11 per box here. I'm thinking about trying a case in my old Ithaca.

 

 

http://shop.polywad.com/product.sc?productId=39

 

$10 per box here if you buy a case. Higher than 2 3/4", but today, the price isn't too out of line.

Edited August 25, 2013 by gregintenn

[musicman]

Thanks Greg! Those RST shells are what I have right now. I didn't do any patterning or anything, but they seemed fine. Do you ever get to South Nashville any afternoons/evenings? If you do, would be interested in splitting a flat of either shell?

[gregintenn]

Very rarely do I go to South Nashville. Thank you for the offer anyway.

 

[URL=http://s612.photobucket.com/user/gregintenn/media/IMG_2276_zpsd6bac1e6.jpg.html][/URL]

 

 

 

 

[URL=http://s612.photobucket.com/user/gregintenn/media/IMG_2275_zps95a3c17f.jpg.html][/URL]

 

 

 

[URL=http://s612.photobucket.com/user/gregintenn/media/IMG_2277_zpse90207e6.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Here's my Ithaca 20. I really like it, and have been shooting 2 3/4" shells in it. Then I read where it might be chambered for 2 1/2". I really like it and don't want to blow it up. I should get the chambers measured so I'll know for sure. The 2 1/2" shells would be good anyway because it weighs nearly nothing, and is rough on the shoulder with regular shells.

Edited August 26, 2013 by gregintenn

[musicman]

Beautiful gun!  I love the mild curl in that walnut! 

 

One of the cool things about working at Gibson is getting to see some of the really beautiful pieces of quilt and flame maple, mahogany, and koa woods on some of the guitars.  Once or twice a week I see something that just takes my breath away.  A buddy and I have constests as to who can find the nicest guitar each day.  We both like different characteristics and patterns, so rarely is one ever a "winner" over the other, but it's fun to "argue"!

Edited August 26, 2013 by musicman

[chances R]

I have an old LC in 12ga.  It too made by Hunter.  I have used it several times on S. Dakota pheasant hunts.  I used typical trap loads, loaded with 'English 7's'.  Stay away from heavy loadings in these old guns; they have a history of cracking the wood in the wrist of the stock.