FAL vs G3 vs M14

[Guest Commander Kim]

they're all battle rifles, serve the same purpose. I don't like the AR-10.

Which one of these would you like to take into battle and why?

[NoBanStan]

You've forgotten the CETME!

[peejman]

Nothing wrong with any of the 3.  Full auto fire from any of them is a waste of ammo.  Cost no object, I'd pick the M14 simply because it's probably the most accurate of the 3.  I'd pick the FAL 2nd because they're uber reliable and I think they're cool. 

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I'm actually working on an article on this subject right now. They all have pluses and minuses. They are all also relatively obsolete from a "modern" firearm perspective. That does NOT mean they are no good...it means they are 50 + year old designs and there are more modern tools available.

 

Also keep in mind that a REAL M14, FAL and G3 is NOT going to be what you buy now. Most all of them are different than the real ones. And the foreign made ones have to have enough US made parts to import them.

 

Springfield armory has been out of Mil Spec M14 parts since about 2002 . The M1A is mostly newly made MIM parts now.

 

The FALs can't be imported and FN stopped making them long ago. A pre ban FN is $3000 a pre ban Springfield SAR48 is $2000+.  The newly built ones that are available from DSA are US made receivers and most of the Mil Spec parts they got from Styer are drying up hence the steady climb in pricing. Or your other option is to buy a kit and a receiver (DSA or Coonan) and have someone assemble it....

 

And HK does not even build or import to the US the HK94 anymore and a pre ban HK made G3 clone will be $2500 and up. The paddle mag release is normally not found on the imported guns due to import restrictions and how ATF views HK machine guns (long story). So the push button mag release on the right side is how you get the mags out. Unfortunately this is the least ergonomic feature of the 3 rifles but there are places that can retrofit the paddle release to the gun if that is important to you .

 

So your options on a G3  is pretty much an HK preban import, a Springfield SAR3 (or 8) for about $ 1500 or a new gun from PTR. Their GI model is built with parts from Portugal on equipment acquired from Portugal with enough US parts to make it legal (Portugal made their own G3 licensed by HK ). I have a pre ban Portugal made FMP G3 and it is pretty much all you can realistically ask for in a battle rifle. (for full disclosure I also have 2 M1As and 2 FALs)

 

The M14 was already obsolete when it was adopted. It is essentially an updated Garand.  It is a fine target rifle and a decent fighting rifle but it is old school technology with a hunting rifle stock. The FAL was a better choice but we already had all the tooling to make Garands and M14. The FAL was a more modern rifle with pistol grip and more like what we expect now from a fighting rifle.  We actually "agreed" to take the FAL and adopt it (which was originally designed around a different cartridge) and we made the NATO countries take 7.62x51 as the cartridge for it and then backed out of the "deal" and started production of the M14. The G3 was produced by the Germans when the Belgians refused to allow them to produce FALs. The G3 was essentially a modified CETME from Spain designed by German designers who left Germany at the end of WWII . It used a pretty radically different operating system than the FAL or the M14. The G3 is as tough as a telephone pole but slightly less ergonomic than the FAL. 

 

In 2013 the choices for a factory new rifle are pretty much either an M1A that is essentially a target rifle now with less than the most robust internal parts and magazines that run around $40 a piece, a DSA FAL that is getting really expensive (about $1800) or a kit gun, and Mags that run around $25-30, or a G3 from PTR (the GI model) that is built on the original Portuguese machinery, still reasonably priced (can be found just shy of $1000) and mags are $5 to $10. 

 

If you want a modern .308 rifle that will easily mount optics (mounting optics was an afterthought on ALL 3 of the rifles) then the SIG 716 is a piston AR in 308 with flat top receiver and can be had for less than the new DSA. But if optics are not critical then any of the 3 will work....they are just not the SAME as the REAL ones.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Cruel Hand Luke

[whitewolf001]

I'm actually working on an article on this subject right now. They all have pluses and minuses. They are all also relatively obsolete from a "modern" firearm perspective. That does NOT mean they are no good...it means they are 50 + year old designs and there are more modern tools available.

 

Also keep in mind that a REAL M14, FAL and G3 is NOT going to be what you buy now. Most all of them are different than the real ones. And the foreign made ones have to have enough US made parts to import them.

 

Springfield armory has been out of Mil Spec M14 parts since about 2002 . The M1A is mostly newly made MIM parts now.

 

The FALs can't be imported and FN stopped making them long ago. A pre ban FN is $3000 a pre ban Springfield SAR48 is $2000+.  The newly built ones that are available from DSA are US made receivers and most of the Mil Spec parts they got from Styer are drying up hence the steady climb in pricing. Or your other option is to buy a kit and a receiver (DSA or Coonan) and have someone assemble it....

 

And HK does not even build or import to the US the HK94 anymore and a pre ban HK made G3 clone will be $2500 and up. The paddle mag release is normally not found on the imported guns due to import restrictions and how ATF views HK machine guns (long story). So the push button mag release on the right side is how you get the mags out. Unfortunately this is the least ergonomic feature of the 3 rifles but there are places that can retrofit the paddle release to the gun if that is important to you .

 

So your options on a G3  is pretty much an HK preban import, a Springfield SAR3 (or 8) for about $ 1500 or a new gun from PTR. Their GI model is built with parts from Portugal on equipment acquired from Portugal with enough US parts to make it legal (Portugal made their own G3 licensed by HK ). I have a pre ban Portugal made FMP G3 and it is pretty much all you can realistically ask for in a battle rifle. (for full disclosure I also have 2 M1As and 2 FALs)

 

The M14 was already obsolete when it was adopted. It is essentially an updated Garand.  It is a fine target rifle and a decent fighting rifle but it is old school technology with a hunting rifle stock. The FAL was a better choice but we already had all the tooling to make Garands and M14. The FAL was a more modern rifle with pistol grip and more like what we expect now from a fighting rifle.  We actually "agreed" to take the FAL and adopt it (which was originally designed around a different cartridge) and we made the NATO countries take 7.62x51 as the cartridge for it and then backed out of the "deal" and started production of the M14. The G3 was produced by the Germans when the Belgians refused to allow them to produce FALs. The G3 was essentially a modified CETME from Spain designed by German designers who left Germany at the end of WWII . It used a pretty radically different operating system than the FAL or the M14. The G3 is as tough as a telephone pole but slightly less ergonomic than the FAL. 

 

In 2013 the choices for a factory new rifle are pretty much either an M1A that is essentially a target rifle now with less than the most robust internal parts and magazines that run around $40 a piece, a DSA FAL that is getting really expensive (about $1800) or a kit gun, and Mags that run around $25-30, or a G3 from PTR (the GI model) that is built on the original Portuguese machinery, still reasonably priced (can be found just shy of $1000) and mags are $5 to $10. 

 

If you want a modern .308 rifle that will easily mount optics (mounting optics was an afterthought on ALL 3 of the rifles) then the SIG 716 is a piston AR in 308 with flat top receiver and can be had for less than the new DSA. But if optics are not critical then any of the 3 will work....they are just not the SAME as the REAL ones.

 

I have to disagree with the pricing on the DSA FAL as they can be had from AIM for $1499. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1DSASA58S21&name=DSA+SA58+FAL+.308+21%22+Rifle&groupid=6

The DSA with a folding stock will cost what you list but just for the stock itself. Tell me where you know of a 716 for $1500 and I will snatch it up in a heartbeat! :yum:

[viscero]

I've owned semi auto versions of all three and I would definitely choose the G3/HK91/CETME.  The M14 would be my 2nd pick with the FAL bringing up the rear.

[whitewolf001]

I do especially love that the mags for the HK series are cheap as HELL.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I have to disagree with the pricing on the DSA FAL as they can be had from AIM for $1499. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1DSASA58S21&name=DSA+SA58+FAL+.308+21%22+Rifle&groupid=6

The DSA with a folding stock will cost what you list but just for the stock itself. Tell me where you know of a 716 for $1500 and I will snatch it up in a heartbeat! :yum:

That one is apparently not a regularly offered item with DSA...so in that case...yes, you can OCCASIONALLY  find a DSA for $1499. They do occasionally have "for a limited time" models. A few years ago they had some guns built from used surplus IMBEL kits that were running $999 IIRC. Pretty sure AIM carrried the DSA IMBEL rifle too.  But it was a limited run and using surplus kits until they ran out of kits, not using the parts DSA is making. 

 

There are places with $1500 dealer price on Sig 716s.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I do especially love that the mags for the HK series are cheap as HELL.

That is a BIG plus for those rifles. You can get about 5 G3 mags for every 1 FAL or M14 Mag. 

[dcloudy777]

 I don't like the AR-10.

 

 

Why are you trying to find the second best .308 battle rifle?  The AR10-type rifle beats the ever loving bejeezus out of the other three as a combat weapon, especially now that most of them use a PMag.

 

That being said, if I had to "go to war" with one of the others... my ranking would be FAL, M14, G3.

 

  DanO

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Why are you trying to find the second best .308 battle rifle?  The AR10-type rifle beats the ever loving bejeezus out of the other three as a combat weapon, especially now that most of them use a PMag.

 

That being said, if I had to "go to war" with one of the others... my ranking would be FAL, M14, G3.

 

  DanO

I'll fix that for you...SOME AR10Type rifles beat the ever loving .......

 

 

DPMS makes an AR 10.....Rock River makes an AR10...Armalite makes an AR10 ....NONE of them would I want to actually have to depend on to preserve life and limb. The one constant  with ARs is that you will definitely get what you pay for. Now if we are talking Sig 716 or SR 25 then I agree...but not ALL AR10s are built equally.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Moped]

If you don't like the AR10. then I'd go with the PTR and never look back..

[viscero]

That is a BIG plus for those rifles. You can get about 5 G3 mags for every 1 FAL or M14 Mag. 

 

Not to mention the weight difference between them.

 

Weight of the mags + rifle, ergonomics/controls, (imho) better optics options, and easier modernization via aftermarket parts/accessories is why I put the G3/HK91 at the top on my list.  Not to mention recoil is practically non-existent in this platform.

[DaveTN]

I’d take the M14 because of accuracy and quality. But I’d take an AR-10 over any of them.

[roverboy]

I like the M14 but, am wondering about the STG58.

[Spots]

I love the M14/M1A but dont know enough about the other two to give an educated decision.

[zgunbear]

The cost of magazines is high now back in the 90's when I built my FN FAL mutt I was able to get metric mags as low as $5 a piece for god surplus mags. I stocked up then.

Mine is accurate enough to hit a man sized steel plate at 700 meters all day long with the iron sights. It may not be a MOA rifle but it is a minute of man rifle so it would do the trick If I needed it to.

[dlm37015]

I have all 3 in full auto if I could only have 1 for a battle rifle it would be the fal
its not the most accurate the m14 is but day in and day out it is the most reliable imo

[TMF]

I have all 3 in full auto if I could only have 1 for a battle rifle it would be the fal
its not the most accurate the m14 is but day in and day out it is the most reliable imo

I've also had all three in FA (from military days) and would also go with the FAL. Mine was the 16 in paratrooper, so it was a lot easier to maneuver around vehicles and in general. I will say that firing any of those on FA was doing little but making a lot of noise, with the exception of the M14 resting on a sandbag from the prone.

[Spiffy]

Of the 3 the FAL fits me best. I love how it feels in my hands and it shoots well for me. I have horrible HK clone that I bought from a friend and got 5k rounds of 308 with it for a killer price, just too bulky for me.  My FAL is an old old Century import built on a Imbel receiver, basically all Century did was lop off the flash hider and screwed up the pistol grip stud. 

[peejman]

I like the M14 but, am wondering about the STG58.

 

STG58 = FAL. 

[SmokyBaer]

For me without doubt, the M1A/M14/M25 is the best choice for accuracy, reliability, sights, ergonomics and options.  These days, you can modernize your M14 with military EBR chassis' or target stocks or bed a lightweight USGI birch or fiber and get outstanding results.  Once set up, you cannot beat a man who knows his M14 in and out.  That's why the military has not shelved it yet.  They just keep finding ways to make it better than the new commercial contenders that come and go. 

My favorite M14 has a laminated and bedded E2 pistol grip stock from LAW483.com which has made the rifle I built into a custom shooter that fits me, as it should be.  To throw in a plug, that stock guy is a perfectionist and one-on-one consumer driven like all vendors should be. 

Bottom line is... 

if you want the best, forget the budget and look at what our Special Forces are using to preserve and protect our freedom.

 

http://sageebr.com/2010/10/09/httpsageebrcom20101009usmc-m39-emr-in-okinawaaspx.aspx

 

 

 

 

[TMF]

r
if you want the best, forget the budget and look at what our Special Forces are using to preserve and protect our freedom.

The only 7.62x51 rifle that SF uses is the SCAR.

[SmokyBaer]

The only 7.62x51 rifle that SF uses is the SCAR.

 

You may want to check that. 
My understanding is there's not enough to go around to every branch.

[TMF]

You may want to check that.

My understanding is there's not enough to go around to every branch.

Well, last I checked it was two per team. For certain though, the last time SF teams were MTOE'd M-14s, they were still wearing OG-107s.