Gallatin Police Department Sitting on $1500 1911

[Guest Grizzly Johnson]

It is SOP for many jurisdictions to require you to get a lawyer and take them to court to get YOUR property back after some government toady screws up. You can show up with your 4473 as the original purchaser of a NIB gun with signed statement from the shop stating that and you won't get your stuff back until you lawyer up and see a judge.

How many people are willing to spend a couple thousand in legal costs (not to mention missing work) to get back a $500 gun? What happens to those guns?

Well if that's the way SOP is, then it sucks!!! Sounds like more of the rediculous this and that's which relate to carrying a firearm, or other things in society today. A man shouldn't have to lawyer up and see a judge to get his property back, just another example of the government screwing the "little man", it's his fair and square bought and paid for, with no reason not to give it back. It may be one thing if it was a $500 gun, might be another to be a $1,500 that I scrimped and saved for, or worked extra hours to earn the money. I be damned if the government would keep it...... too much power and abuse of authority...... (stepping down from the stump)......

[Guest canynracer]

Ok...I finally read the whole story..

Not to side track this, but to me this is another good example of why to keep your mouth shut and your HCP in your wallet until the situation calls for different actions.

Had he simply gave the officer his DL, he may have simply drove off with a ticket.

Ummm, unless he had to use his gun in self defense......not sure that would fair very well with a cancelled permit and all...knowwhatimean?

I look at this as support for SHOWING your permit...I would rather have this happen than to end up in criminal court.

[Guest bkelm18]

Ummm, unless he had to use his gun in self defense......not sure that would fair very well with a cancelled permit and all...knowwhatimean?

I look at this as support for SHOWING your permit...I would rather have this happen than to end up in criminal court.

It's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Either way you're gonna get your pee pee smacked. Just one way is more of a punch than a smack.

[Guest canynracer]

Werd

[Fallguy]

Ummm, unless he had to use his gun in self defense......not sure that would fair very well with a cancelled permit and all...knowwhatimean?

I look at this as support for SHOWING your permit...I would rather have this happen than to end up in criminal court.

If he'd had to use his gun in self-defense he would be covered under 39-17-1322.

I still say there is more of a chance if he'd kept his armed status and HCP to himself he would have drove away with a ticket and his 1911. Of course I admit it is unknown when, if or under what circumstances he would have found it he'd been canceled.

If you want to know the status of your HCP maybe you can call the same number to find out the status of whether it has been issued or not or find a friendly LEO that will check, while your not armed. I really don't think this was the best way to find out.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Fallguy

[Mike.357]

speaking from experience this guy is going to need a lawyer and a court order signed by a judge to ever get his handgun back.

Does not matter why it was confiscated, or if he has receipts proving ownership.

The PD is not giving it up without a signed, valid court order.

Last I checked you need a lawyer to get that done.

[Guest db99wj]

speaking from experience this guy is going to need a lawyer and a court order signed by a judge to ever get his handgun back.

Does not matter why it was confiscated, or if he has receipts proving ownership.

The PD is not giving it up without a signed, valid court order.

Last I checked you need a lawyer to get that done.

You do? You can "defend" yourself in other cases, what makes this different?

[Guest 270win]

I think it is pretty pathetic it takes forever to get your gun back after a case is dismissed and the Dept of Safety messing up on the permit, but it could have possibly been avoided by not handing the handgun carry permit over with the DL. It is not required in TN, so why be hassled. Some people say handing over a handgun carry permit can get them out of a ticket, but i'd take a speeding ticket over the chance of a speeding ticket AND this kind of hassle. The guy's ticket sure wasn't dismissed.

I have been to several states and stopped with a gun in my car with and without a license, whether legal or not. I never ever informed and never had more than a traffic ticket. Unless legally required to, i see no reason to show your permit.

[fizik]

Oh my God, that's scary. I hope to hell I'm never caught up in a mess like that.

[Mike.357]

You do? You can "defend" yourself in other cases, what makes this different?

The difference is a gun is involved.

In my case the charges were dismissed by agreement. It still took something like four more months and a court order to have the handgun released.

You may be living under the false assessment that one is innocent until proven guilty. You are in fact guilty until proven innocent and even then you are still not worthy of trust.

[saintsfanbrian]

I think it is pretty pathetic it takes forever to get your gun back after a case is dismissed and the Dept of Safety messing up on the permit, but it could have possibly been avoided by not handing the handgun carry permit over with the DL. It is not required in TN, so why be hassled. Some people say handing over a handgun carry permit can get them out of a ticket, but i'd take a speeding ticket over the chance of a speeding ticket AND this kind of hassle. The guy's ticket sure wasn't dismissed.

I have been to several states and stopped with a gun in my car with and without a license, whether legal or not. I never ever informed and never had more than a traffic ticket. Unless legally required to, i see no reason to show your permit.

Suppose he didn't hand over the permit and for some reason later on he was out and had an incident where he had to use the gun. It could have been a lot worse.

While it sucks that the firearm was confiscated and it sucks that he had to take a lot of time going to court et al to get this cleared up. Would you rather find out in an innocuous situation where everyone involved was quite amicable or when you happened to be "made" at Wal-Mart and Officer Unfriendly is being sent out to a "man with a gun" complaint?

[Fallguy]

Suppose he didn't hand over the permit and for some reason later on he was out and had an incident where he had to use the gun. It could have been a lot worse.

While it sucks that the firearm was confiscated and it sucks that he had to take a lot of time going to court et al to get this cleared up. Would you rather find out in an innocuous situation where everyone involved was quite amicable or when you happened to be "made" at Wal-Mart and Officer Unfriendly is being sent out to a "man with a gun" complaint?

See post 30.

I'm 100% with Razorback on this one.

[Mike.357]

doesn't the LEO find out you have an HCP when he runs your DL?

I assume if your HCP has been suspended or revoked his cop computer would also tell him that.

So I am not sure if showing his HCP made a difference.

(ignore this post if I have missed something obvious)

[TGO David]

It is SOP for many jurisdictions to require you to get a lawyer and take them to court to get YOUR property back after some government toady screws up. You can show up with your 4473 as the original purchaser of a NIB gun with signed statement from the shop stating that and you won't get your stuff back until you lawyer up and see a judge.

How many people are willing to spend a couple thousand in legal costs (not to mention missing work) to get back a $500 gun? What happens to those guns?

I'm guessing the same people who would be willing to spend a couple thousand in legal costs (not to mention missing work) to do this...

And this is why EVERYONE who has had a bad OP against them need to take the JUDGE and the EX to court on slander/defamation of character (the ex) and civil rights violations (the judge). That has to be a violation of your 5th, 6th, or 7th rights at a minimum.

[Fallguy]

doesn't the LEO find out you have an HCP when he runs your DL?

I assume if your HCP has been suspended or revoked his cop computer would also tell him that.

So I am not sure if showing his HCP made a difference.

(ignore this post if I have missed something obvious)

Yes it would and did show up. Remember the LEO showed the guy the status on his computer.

But a LEO may or may not check your DL before giving you a ticket or warning. But even if he did....and he saw HCP status cancelled, revoked or whatever, it still doesn't mean he would bring it up if you didn't.

I'm not saying this guy for sure would have only got a ticket or warning had he not handed over his HCP with his DL, I'm just saying he would have had a better chance of not having his 1911 taken away had he not.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

If he'd had to use his gun in self-defense he would be covered under 39-17-1322.

I still say there is more of a chance if he'd kept his armed status and HCP to himself he would have drove away with a ticket and his 1911. Of course I admit it is unknown when, if or under what circumstances he would have found it he'd been canceled.

If you want to know the status of your HCP maybe you can call the same number to find out the status of whether it has been issued or not or find a friendly LEO that will check, while your not armed. I really don't think this was the best way to find out.

honestly, the officer didnt HAVE TOO take possession of the gun. He could have let him simply unload it and take it with him. Its up to the officers discretion to determine what action to take. Its like a DL being screwed up, and you can clearly see its the states fault, or a tag not being in the system correct... doesnt mean you have to make an arrest and tow the vehicle. Overall the officer did his job and acted appropriately, but he could have given the kid a break too.

On the situation and showing the permit, well.. as gung ho as some of the officers that work in Sumner County are... if he hadnt told him, the officer might have seen it and stuck a gun in his face, then it might have been allot worse. Ask Steelharp how they can be. So who knows???

[saintsfanbrian]

I was not talking about using a firearm for defense simply you reach up in Wal-Mart to get something and your cover garment comes a little short in covering. Gramma gets hysterical and tells the manager who calls the cops or just calls the cops her self with her jitterbug. Next thing you know you are up against a wall redneck mother and things go from bad to worse.

I can see both sides of the coin on showing when stopped for traffic incident I haven't decided 100% what I will do.

I wondered why the officer just didn't ask him to unload it and put it in the trunk until I realized that he was charged with intent to go armed the officer could probaly not "legally" return the firearm to him.

[Mike.357]

Overall the officer did his job and acted appropriately, but he could have given the kid a break too

I have read some of this guys past blog posts and I really wonder if there is something he is doing to bring trouble upon himself. I dunno, I am just curious.

There are two sides to stories and we do not have the cops side of things.

[Fallguy]

I was not talking about using a firearm for defense simply you reach up in Wal-Mart to get something and your cover garment comes a little short in covering. Gramma gets hysterical and tells the manager who calls the cops or just calls the cops her self with her jitterbug. Next thing you know you are up against a wall redneck mother and things go from bad to worse.

The officer could have reacted badly in this case as well, but didn't

We have all heard of horror stories of interactions with LEO's, but they can just as easily approach you and ask if you have a HCP. In your scenario, the LEO may have even taken the HCP at face value and not ran it (also no reason to run the DL since not driving) and all would have been ok. But no way of knowing for sure.

I agree it was good for him to find out.....but probably no way with a LEO involved would have been 100% good for him.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

The officer could have reacted badly in this case as well, but didn't

We have all heard of horror stories of interactions with LEO's, but they can just as easily approach you and ask if you have a HCP. In your scenario, the LEO may have even taken the HCP at face value and not ran it (also no reason to run the DL since not driving) and all would have been ok. But no way of knowing for sure.

I agree it was good for him to find out.....but probably no way with a LEO involved would have been 100% good for him.

but remember, there is no way to run a HCP by itself, its the same as the DL number... so thats what the officer ran, and the status came back as cancelled. Dispatch is very limited to what they see regarding HCP information. Its on the same screen as the DL info.

[TGO David]

I have read some of this guys past blog posts and I really wonder if there is something he is doing to bring trouble upon himself.

I sort of wondered that too back when he had the run-in with the cop outside of his local Wal-Mart. I remember reading it and thinking that both sides could have handled the matter a lot better than they did.

[molonlabetn]

Alot can be solved by simply being cordial and respectful... doesn't mean we have to bend over backwards or compromise, but patience and calmness while engaging the situation are a must.

[Fallguy]

but remember, there is no way to run a HCP by itself, its the same as the DL number... so thats what the officer ran, and the status came back as cancelled. Dispatch is very limited to what they see regarding HCP information. Its on the same screen as the DL info.

Yes I know this....

I have ended up talking about two things. The blog in the OP and the Wal-Mart scenario, of which most of my reply that you quoted dealt with.

My point on the blog in the OP is that had he not mentioned being armed or having a HCP even if the LEO ran the DL he may or may not have noticed the HCP status since it would not have been relevant to the traffic stop, but even if had seen it, since there had been no mention of weapons to that point he may have not worried about it. Or he could have come back and asked if he was armed, but maybe not. That is my point...at least he would have had a chance if he hadn't brought it up.

On the Wal-Mart scenario I was saying the LEO may choose not to check the status of the HCP since the one presented was valid on it's face. Also that not ever LEO that is responding to a report of an armed citizen throws them up against the wall or holds them at gun point before asking if they have a HCP.

Sorry for any confusion caused on my part.

[shaftbass]

He should get the local news involved.

Oh wait, they'd spin it as him being the bad guy.

[Guest grimel]

Do you really have to have a lawyer? You go to court with the appropriate documentation, certified or notarized, tell the judge what your are doing there and that you have proof. Handover proof, and go from there. IANAL, but I don't think you need one either, in this case, if you have the appropriate information.

Do it how you want to.