Gallatin Police Department Sitting on $1500 1911

[Guest ColtCCO]

Great news, I think someone said it before but I think it should be repeated.........enjoy your reunion and now SLOW down!

Enjoy the passing scenery......it looks a lot better from the car than a hospital bed or thru jail cell window;) ( have no personal experience either of the hospital and jail cell)

Agreed - though I have no experience with either, it was my first ticket in about 2.5 years, and I notice that I drive like a little old lady for at least 6-8 months afterwards trying extra hard not to get another one.

Not volunteering my carry permit ever again unless the officer can convince me that's the reason he stopped me, either. I always used to hand over my HCP, for things like 5 mph over, expired tags, etc. Now? No more information than needs to be conveyed, for the purpose of the traffic stop.

Sorry, but it's been a hell of a time with all this mess, and all for trying to be courteous to the police officer, as I was advised was both for officer safety and professional courtesy, by both the police officer/Ret. Marine who taught my HCP, and in the state video, and have done ever since I got my permit. I can continue to be polite without ever bringing my carry permit into it. I was trying to go the extra mile to do the right thing, and through no fault of the officer who stopped me, got worked over by the DMV, the TN DOS, and the Gallatin PD, in order. It cost me hundreds of dollars in gas, hotel lodging in Gallatin, and missed work, a denied firearms purchase after booking myself into the Sumner County Correction System, and risking jail time for a misdemeanor if I were somehow wrongfully convicted. All for something I could have found out was incorrectly filed at the time I went to renew my permit.

I'm just about the test subject for keeping your HCP in your wallet, and I'm going to have to break my policy of handing it over in the future. I know this may not please some of the officers here who prefer to know up front, but I can't imagine that any of them think that this debacle was a positive result of handing over the permit.

[Oh Shoot]

...... but it's been a hell of a time with all this mess, and all for trying to be courteous to the police officer, ,,,,

As you age, you'll find that few good deeds go unpunished.

- OS

[Guest canynracer]

good grief....once again, its the cops at fault...this is lame.

Hillbilly, you need to get over it. There is no conspiracy theory here...they are within the law to hold the gun until they clear the gun...

just as we cannot assume the government is right, you cannpt assume they are wrong all the time.

[Guest ColtCCO]

canynracer- The permit wasn't expired as you stated, it was wrongfully canceled. Not the police officer's fault, the DMV's fault.

Also, the gun wasn't "evidence" when it was held for weeks after my court case had already been dismissed. Not the police officer's fault, department policy fault. Holding it for an indeterminate amount of time for a full ATF trace was just the department following an annoying policy, not any officer's fault. Endless impenetrable bureaucracy is more insidious and pervasive than any conspiracy.

Edit - oh, you edited your post once you read the thread. Guess I should have quoted it.

Edited August 30, 2008 by ColtCCO
canynracer edited his post, so what I was replying to wasn't there anymore.

[Guest canynracer]

I understand, I reread and found what you stated about the mix up...I am glad you got your gun back.

my statement was more for the LEO bashers. LOL.

sorry for the confusion.

[Guest ColtCCO]

I understand, I reread and found what you stated about the mix up...I am glad you got your gun back.

my statement was more for the LEO bashers. LOL.

sorry for the confusion.

Thanks and yes, not going to target the individual officers for this either, it makes no sense to do so. This is just the faceless system's fault, from its sorry-wrong-button-cancellation inception of the mess, to its sorry-policy-dictates-trace conclusion.

[DaveTN]

I know this may not please some of the officers here who prefer to know up front, but I can't imagine that any of them think that this debacle was a positive result of handing over the permit.

I am a former cop and I have always said that I wouldn’t do it unless there was a possibility the Officer would see the weapon. But that’s a personal decision each person has to make on their own.

The "Officer Safety†stuff is ; a bad guy isn’t going to tell you he is armed and if the Officer wants to know the state needs to put it in the law.

Personally I think people do it because they think it may get them a warning instead of a ticket. And it may well do just that. But it didn’t in your case did it?

What happened to you was wrong. Sure the cop on the street was just doing his job. But the rest of the people in the chain weren’t. At the moment it was determined that it was a paperwork error, charges should have been dropped and your weapon retuned to you.

A stolen check takes minutes; not seven weeks. The DA, the Judge, a Gallatin PD Command Officer; any of them could have ordered the return of your gun.

Glad you finally got it back.

[Guest canynracer]

My choice is to give my permit not for any other reason but to put the officer at ease in case he happens to see my gun. that is MY choice, and as Dave stated, every situation is different.

I personally do not think handing your permit had ANYTHING to do with this. When they run your license, they see you have a permit. We cannot ASSUME that the officer would not have asked if you were armed, then asked for your permit, and run it...

I just dont think this happened BECAUSE you handed your permit over.

[Fallguy]

How in the world can you think it happened for any other reason other than handing over his permit?!

If had he not handed it over the officer may have checked his DL, it would have (did) say HCP Status canceled, I don't think officer routinely ask on ever speeding stop if someone is armed, especially if a check shows they do not have a HCP.

While no one can say for certainty, but it it more likely than not, had he not handed over his HCP he would have either got speeding ticket or a warning and been on his way.

I do agree that each situation is unique...also I would tell an officer before he found by search etc.... But if you are CCing, not sure how he could see it as long as you don't exit the vehicle.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Fallguy

[dralarms]

Hey Coltcco, were you the guy that got jacked up by the knoxville cop that had his training in ohio? That was another messed up situation.

[DaveTN]

I just dont think this happened BECAUSE you handed your permit over.

I do.

Not saying its right or wrong. I understand that a HCP would be identified on a license check, but that doesn’t mean the Officer will come back up to your car and ask if you are carrying. Does this happen a lot?

He could have got a warning or a ticket and been on down the road.

Although he did find out there was a problem with his permit; it just sucks that it cost him so much to find out.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

all I can say is I always recommend to my students to let the officer know... now honestly Im starting to rethink that position, there have been too many horror stories in my area when citizens are trying to be courteous.

There are 4 others that have happened in the past 3-4 months in Sumner county alone.

[Guest canynracer]

How in the world can you think it happened for any other reason other than handing over his permit?!

If had he not handed it over the officer may have checked his DL, it would have (did) say HCP Status canceled, I don't think officer routinely ask on ever speeding stop if someone is armed, especially if a check shows they do not have a HCP.

While no one can say for certainty, but it it more likely than not, had he not handed over his HCP he would have either got speeding ticket or a warning and been on his way.

I do agree that each situation is unique...also I would tell an officer before he found by search etc.... But if you are CCing, not sure how he could see it as long as you don't exit the vehicle.

LOL...yeah, and the officer would have ASSUMED that because it says cancelled, then no need to ask about it...

I have been asked if I was carrying (I wasnt) when I got pulled over....it happens, and you of all people should know the law about complying when asked.

either way..we dont know...and as the OP stated, the officer was fine, so I guess its a moot point.

[Daniel]

How in the world can you think it happened for any other reason other than handing over his permit?!

If had he not handed it over the officer may have checked his DL, it would have (did) say HCP Status canceled, I don't think officer routinely ask on ever speeding stop if someone is armed, especially if a check shows they do not have a HCP.

While no one can say for certainty, but it it more likely than not, had he not handed over his HCP he would have either got speeding ticket or a warning and been on his way.

I do agree that each situation is unique...also I would tell an officer before he found by search etc.... But if you are CCing, not sure how he could see it as long as you don't exit the vehicle.

I havent followed this thread religiously but, I will say that every time (used to be quite frequently) I have ever been stopped I was asked if I had any weapons in the vehicle.

[Fallguy]

LOL...yeah, and the officer would have ASSUMED that because it says canceled, then no need to ask about it...

I have been asked if I was carrying (I wasn't) when I got pulled over....it happens, and you of all people should know the law about complying when asked.

either way..we dint know...and as the OP stated, the officer was fine, so I guess its a moot point.

I have been pulled over when not carrying, should I have still handed over my HCP? Yes, I know the law, that if you are asked for your permit, you must show it. 39-17-1351(n)(1) But being stopped for speeding and being asked for you DL is NOT being asked for your HCP or if you are armed.

I never meant any response in this thread as an attack on LEO's or to be taken as derogatory. Simply that there can be negative consequences for blindly handing over you HCP ever time you interact with a LEO.

At times it has been asked for someone to cite a specific incident where there were negative consiquences...well here it is. We also have a former LEO stating that it can depend on the situation and that it may not be a good idea to just hand it over with your DL right away. Even now have a HCP instructor reconsidering what he advises students.

[Fallguy]

I havent followed this thread religiously but, I will say that every time (used to be quite frequently) I have ever been stopped I was asked if I had any weapons in the vehicle.

Hmmmm.....well maybe my view is skewed based on the uncommon occurence of having NEVER been asked about weapons when stopped.

[dralarms]

I have been pulled over when not carrying, should I have still handed over my HCP? Yes, I know the law, that if you are asked for your permit, you must show it. 39-17-1351(n)(1) But being stopped for speeding and being asked for you DL is NOT being asked for your HCP or if you are armed.

I never meant any response in this thread as an attack on LEO's or to be taken as derogatory. Simply that there can be negative consequences for blindly handing over you HCP ever time you interact with a LEO.

At times it has been asked for someone to cite a specific incident where there were negative consiquences...well here it is. We also have a former LEO stating that it can depend on the situation and that it may not be a good idea to just hand it over with your DL right away. Even now have a HCP instructor reconsidering what he advises students.

Well after this thread I'm rethinking my automaticlly handing over mine as well.

[Guest canynracer]

I have been pulled over when not carrying, should I have still handed over my HCP? Yes, I know the law, that if you are asked for your permit, you must show it. 39-17-1351(n)(1) But being stopped for speeding and being asked for you DL is NOT being asked for your HCP or if you are armed.

I never meant any response in this thread as an attack on LEO's or to be taken as derogatory. Simply that there can be negative consequences for blindly handing over you HCP ever time you interact with a LEO.

At times it has been asked for someone to cite a specific incident where there were negative consiquences...well here it is. We also have a former LEO stating that it can depend on the situation and that it may not be a good idea to just hand it over with your DL right away. Even now have a HCP instructor reconsidering what he advises students.

No, I dont hand it when I am NOT carrying...but I have been asked...twice if I was, my answer "Not right now sir, why do you ask?"

First times, response.."I saw you had a permit, why arent you carrying?! LOL"

Me, "Well, I work for FedEx, I am on my way to work"

his response, "enough said..."

Results: warning for speeding up through a yellow light...

Second time:

.."I saw you had a permit...do you have any weapons in the car?"

Me: No sir

Result: expired tag ticket

Then again, I live in the greater (term used broadly) memphis area...

when I am carrying, I would hand the permit over. If they had made the mistake, I would want to know...the losing the gun for so long, yeah, it does suck

[Guest Boomhower]

Glad to see you got your gun back, finally.

[Guest shadow12]

I have always advised students to only hand over their HCP when asked for it, not for every traffic stop. Too many LEO's that don't know the law or only know half of it. My wife even keeps her HCP in a different section of her wallet so it can't be accidently seen.

On the other hand, if he hadn't given the HCP when he did, how long before he found out that the state made a mistake? Yes it sucks to lose your pistol for so long, but nothing happened to it, and he did finally get it back.

[Fallguy]

If they had made the mistake, I would want to know...the losing the gun for so long, yeah, it does suck

On the other hand, if he hadn't given the HCP when he did, how long before he found out that the state made a mistake? Yes it sucks to lose your pistol for so long, but nothing happened to it, and he did finally get it back.

It would have been better to find out at renewal time.....

[Guest grimel]

My choice is to give my permit not for any other reason but to put the officer at ease in case he happens to see my gun.

Be sure to post what happens when you give your permit to a transplanted Yankee cop. Let us know just how at ease you put him.

[Guest grimel]

Hmmmm.....well maybe my view is skewed based on the uncommon occurence of having NEVER been asked about weapons when stopped.

I've been asked, but, only after producing a permit. Nothing good ever comes from volunteering information.

I have my wallet setup such that withdrawing my DL does NOT show my HCP. This was the result of being stopped in N.C. and the trooper seeing the permit behind the DL. Then asking to see that ID since it isn't allowed to have TWO DL's. The result was less than enjoyable.

[Guest grimel]

I have always advised students to only hand over their HCP when asked for it, not for every traffic stop. Too many LEO's that don't know the law or only know half of it.

What is it you do for a living again?

[Guest canynracer]

Be sure to post what happens when you give your permit to a transplanted Yankee cop. Let us know just how at ease you put him.

I sure will!! but then again, it may have already happened...not sure, I dont get into life conversations when I get pulled over...