Open carry at the Smokies: My vacation report

[Guest confidence]

Thank you to all who provided input in other threads which helped me plan my trip to the Great Smoky Mountain National Park! My wife and I had a great time and I thought I would make a post reporting how it went in general, including open carrying in the national park. I was asked to blog it in real time, but there was no internet access so this will have to do. My wife and I camped one night in the park and then went for one night to a bed and breakfast, and here's the full story.

 

The first stop on my trip was to Bass Pro Shop Outdoor World in Nashville to get some bear spray. It took me an inordinate amount of time to find it though, due to a closed highway, a silly GPS and my own stupidity. As I walked up to the door, I didn't see gunbusters signs so I walked in CCing. Once I got in, I saw this sign that said, "PLEASE CHECK ALL FIREARMS & BOWS AT CUSTOMER SERVICE PRIOR TO ENTERING THE STORE. THANK YOU." As this is not a legally binding posting, I simply ignored it. I'm wondering if maybe it is possibly meant to refer to weapons that are going to be serviced for repair. The reason I say that is that I later went to an Outdoor World in Sevierville and it had a very similarly worded sign but just added a couple of words like "firearms and bows for repair". I dunno. Here's the sign at the first Outdoor World:

 

I was amazed by the selection of firearms and accessories at Outdoor World! I also enjoyed looking at and holding a Remington Bison black powder revolver there. Very nice. Unfortunately, they were out of bear spray, which was rather disappointing. So then we got back on the road. Somewhere along the way we stopped at a gas station. These 2 guys were next to a van in the parking lot open carrying. They had on polo shirts that had the name of a security company like "______ Security" or whatever. I can't recall the exact name of the security company (may have began with a C?) but the polo shirts and the van looked very cheesy/unprofessional to me, not to mention that one of them had an extreme weight issue that would have made it really difficult for him to chase down a bad guy. Sorry. Just sayin'. That particular guy OC'ed into the gas station to get a drink. I thought to myself that it was funny that when a security guy in a cheesy polo OC's, it's socially acceptable but not always so for the average guy who doesn't have the sacred polo. Funny.

I went ahead and brought my AR-15 with me on the trip just in case the Zimmerman case was decided while I was out of town causing riots in large cities I would be passing through. Of course, it was decided and there were riots. Fortunately, as you know it wasn't that bad and I didn't encounter any problems. Every time I left the car and went in anywhere, etc. I always placed a cable lock on the AR and covered it up in my van so that couldn't be seen. I don't know if this was a good idea or not. I figured if someone stole it, at least they would be less likely to shoot it at me or someone else until they got some bolt cutters and cut the lock off. Then again, this meant that if I really needed to jump back to my car and get the AR for self defense or whatever, that it would have taken way too much extra time to remove it. What's your opinion?

After Knoxville, we eventually arrived at the exit for Sevierville and were happy to see another Outdoor World, and thus a second chance at bear spray. But...They told me they were out of bear spray, too! lol. Convinced that my destiny was to be a bear's afternoon snack, I headed for the restroom. As I came back out, the guy that told me they were out was standing outside the door with bear spray! He told me that he just happened to see some laying randomly on a shelf. lol. I thanked him profusely and headed off for the Smokies. .......Only to be trapped in an hour and forty five minute nightmare in the form of Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg!! CRAZY! I didn't come here to drive 1 mile per hour past a bunch of nonsense like a Titanic museum and magic shows and other such nonsense that went on for MILES and MILES with red lights that took 15 minutes to turn green! MAN that was bad!!!!! Whew. Fortunately, on our way back someone told us how to take the bypass and skip Gatlinburg and another person told us how to take a road which I think was called Veterans which bypasses Pigeon Forge. I don't ever want to see Pigeon Forge again. IT. WAS. A. ZOO. #touronville lol

Then, we drove into the beautiful mountains and arrived to Elkmont campground. Very beautiful area. One thing I did wonder though is why there are supposedly 800 miles of trails through the very massive Smoky Mountains and they can only give me like 6 foot between me and the next campsite...? Isn't there quite enough room to simply separate the campsites by like 30 foot so that you don't have to hear every whisper of surrounding campers? Sorry. Just a little rant there. When I looked at the campsite I chose on their website, it wasn't apparent from the photo that the campsites were packed next to one another like sardines.

After I got the tent up, I went to the car and switched holsters in order to OC, as planned. One of our neighbors did kinda seem to notice that I was OCing, but they had a bumper sticker that said, "Insured by Smith and Wesson" so I don't think they cared, lol. No one else seemed to notice that night. In the morning, lots of people walked, biked and drove by and no one seemed to care. At least one ranger went by but I'm not sure if they noticed, as I was sitting in a portable chair at that time. After packing up our tent, we headed to Cade's Cove. I open carried to the little sales stand where you buy booklets and maps. The guy there could care less, though I got a couple of funny looks from customers. I also open carried at a couple of turn off's where we took photos of ourselves with mountains in the background. This one woman stared at me a lot, but no problems. Of course, I was carrying bear spray on one hip and I gun on the other so I must have looked humorous. Not sure, but they may have been more interested in the giant bear spray bottle than the gun. LOL!!!!

 

Then we headed off on the 5 mile round trip hike to Abrams Falls where I continued to OC. At the entrance to the trail, there were these 3 rangers. They kinda flagged us down and I thought they were gonna give me a hard time about OCing. Instead, they just asked us if we had brought enough water for the trip. The one woman ranger seemed to glance at my pistol, but that was about it. We said, "yes" and then headed off. During the long hike, there were many people that didn't even notice me OCing. There were, however, a few that made concerned faces. There was also one really freaky guy carrying a really big stick and who had a girlfriend twice his age hanging all over him. He seemed like he was on something. I don't know how to explain it, but his behavior was erratic and suspicious. When he looked at you, it was a hateful and disturbed look. After I passed him, I kept glancing back as inconspicuously as possible and was surprised that he actually followed me for about 10 steps (!) without his significant other. He then turned back and went back to her for no apparent reason. There didn't seem to be any explanation for him following me and for a second I thought I was going to be jumped. It made me glad to be armed because here we are out on this very remote trail with no cell phone service and there's this freak. Plus, not once did I see a ranger during that entire 5 mile round trip hike, except for at the entrance. Later we saw him on the way back and he was still acting very weird and seemed to be eyeing me. We walked past him with high SA and there was no incident.

On our way out of the park, my wife read to me the little booklet published by the National Park Service which we bought for a dollar and tells all about what a horrible job they have done over the years. LOL.... The book pretty much says that they banned the farmers from grazing their cattle on the balds in an apparent effort to drive them out of their homesteads and then finally did actually drive them out, complete with one court case which went to the state supreme court but the citizen lost. We both thought that was really sick that they kicked them out of their homesteads that they should have been able to pass down to their children and grandchildren. :( It also outlined their gross mismanagement of the ecosystem, complete with introducing red wolves which ate all the deer. ROTFLOL. From the way they described it, they seemed to be very wishy washy and would swing back and forth between conflicting conservation strategies every 10 years. All with our tax dollars! Interesting that they would admit this openly in their booklet though, lol.

Just before leaving the park, we stopped at a visitors center. I OCed on the sidewalk while my wife went into the posted building to ask about a route to bypass the tourist trap towns. I watched her through the glass. Then she came out and said there was a also gift shop. I knew she would like me to shop with her for something for the kids but I told her that now that everyone has seen me OC, it would be a bad idea for me to go lock my gun in the car as someone watching could steal it. This was a downside to OCing that I had never considered. She was fine with that and went in by herself while I sat on a bench just outside and watched various scowling OC haters go by. No really! There were a number of people that went by and very deliberately looked at the gun and then made very ugly faces at me, lol. Funny, thing is that a few feet from where I was standing was a sign that said it was a "First Amendment Expression Area". I felt like doctoring up the sign to say Second Amendment Expression Area, instead. (But ooooh nooooo.....The Second Amendment isn't a right.....Just the First Amendment..... ;) )

 

After we left the visitors center we took the long, twisting and turning trek down out of the park. We were slightly disappointed that we hadn't seen a bear but the river next to the road was beautiful and we were enjoying the scenery. My wife looked sleepy though so I told her she should nap a little as we drove. She said she didn't want to miss it if we saw a bear. I laughed and told her I would wake her up if I saw one. About 10 minutes later, there were all these cars stopped on both side of the  road and one stopped right in the center of the road. I was a little frustrated at the guy in the center of the road until I saw him get out and look off to the left. I looked where he was looking and there was a mama bear and two cubs! I woke my wife up just barely in the nick of time to see all 3 of them before they went up the hill into the trees. Unfortunately, it happened too fast for me to get a photo. We then pulled off to the side of the road and got out. I was still OCing. Us and various other people were getting what few last glances we could of brown specks disappearing into the forest. Several people turned their heads and looked at my OC'ed pistol but then seemed more interested in the bear. Besides, this may be the one time a sheeple would actually WANT a guy OCing bear spray and a pistol standing beside them, right? ROTFLOL. This one guy was very friendly and was talking to me about the bear when he suddenly glanced at my pistol and paused before finishing his sentence. Later, he asked me what kind of pistol I had and said that he and his wife were going to go get their permits! Yay!

At our bed and breakfast, I was happy to find no postings, though the only portion of the trip I OC'ed was in the actual National Park. I CC'ed everywhere else. When we unpacked, no one seemed at home in any of the cottages near ours so I carried the AR-15 inside without issue. (That was a concern of mine.) It was a very lovely place. The owner said they have had bears roam right there by the cottages. We had a very relaxing and wonderful time there! As I left, there was a guy at a neighboring cottage checking his oil so I put a blanket around the AR-15 when loading it in the car so that you couldn't tell what it was. Didn't really want anybody to know I had a long gun. I was glad I had it, however, once I read the headlines regarding riots -- though they turned out to be a nonissue.

At the end of our trip, we stopped briefly in Nashville. After picking up some fast food, we were going to eat it in Centennial Park. However, it was posted as shown below so we didn't. :( Actually, I wondered about this later. I'm pretty sure the posting was per the wording shown in 39-17-1311 but I'm not sure if the sign was big enough, per these specifications:

39-17-1311

 

( c )  (1) Each chief administrator of public recreational property shall display in prominent locations about the public recreational property a sign, at least six inches (6'') high and fourteen inches (14'') wide, stating:

      MISDEMEANOR. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF ELEVEN (11) MONTHS AND TWENTY-NINE (29) DAYS AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($2,500) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON OR IN PUBLIC RECREATIONAL PROPERTY.
 

The sign looked smaller than that, if I remember correctly. Also, since I didn't take a photo of it, I went to Google Maps street view later but couldn't find a sign that looked like it in that same spot. I'm wondering if it is a fairly new sign, and if it is perhaps not legally binding, due to size. Not sure.

 

Anyway, I know not everybody here is cool with OC and that's fine. The reason I did it was partially for a quicker draw if a bobcat or something was lunging at me, and partially because it's more comfortable when hiking. I guess it just feels right to OC when out in the wild, you know? Thanks for again for all the help and if you read this entire post then thank you for that, too. LOL.

Edited July 16, 2013 by confidence

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Cool trip. Wish I still lived over that way.

 

Most places, I've noticed don't post according to code.

[Guest Emtdaddy1980]

Nicely written post. I would like to respectively suggest as someone who spent a good portion of my teens and 20s in the GSMNP backcountry on the AT and other trails carrying neither a firearm OR bearspray, that many of the puzzled looks may have been due to your industrial sized yogi mace. LOL, glad you had a good trip though. To be honest I didn't know you COULD legally carry in a national park. Good to know for next time.

[Guest confidence]

Nicely written post. I would like to respectively suggest as someone who spent a good portion of my teens and 20s in the GSMNP backcountry on the AT and other trails carrying neither a firearm OR bearspray, that many of the puzzled looks may have been due to your industrial sized yogi mace. LOL, glad you had a good trip though. To be honest I didn't know you COULD legally carry in a national park. Good to know for next time.

 

ROTFLOL @ Yogi mace!

 

Yup, you can carry in a national park (except for posted buildings) per CFR Title 36, 2.4. They basically allow the state to dictate. And TCA 39-17-1311 says you can carry in any national park. 39-17-1311 also says you can carry in a state park EVEN IF THEY ARE POSTED! This includes buildings, from what I can tell.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Be sure to research on your own.

Edited July 16, 2013 by confidence

[JReedEsq]

Just don't get all crazy on us and open carry that AR.  

[Guest confidence]

Just don't get all crazy on us and open carry that AR.  

 

 

Would love to! But I'm not much of a fan of going to jail so.....

 

Maybe next time I'm in Texas I will, though!! :angel:

Edited July 16, 2013 by confidence

[monkeylizard]

At the end of our trip, we stopped briefly in Nashville. After picking up some fast food, we were going to eat it in Centennial Park. However, it was posted below so we didn't. :( Actually, I wondered about this later. I'm pretty sure the posting was per the wording shown in 39-17-1311 but I'm not sure if the sign was big enough, per these specifications:

 

I'm not entirely sure on this, but it is my understanding that Metro Nashville's parks are off limits by city ordinance even without a TCA 39-17-1311 sign.

 

From Metro's Municipal Code:

13.24.440 - Explosives, fireworks and firearms.

A.

No person shall bring into or have in his possession in any park any firearms, slingshots, firecrackers, torpedoes, fireworks or other missile propelling instruments or explosives, including any substance, compound, mixture or article having properties of such a character that alone or in combination or contiguity with other substances, mixtures, compounds or articles may propel missiles or may decompose suddenly and generate sufficient heat, sound, gas or pressure or any or all of these to produce rapid flames, combustion or noxious or dangerous odors or sounds such as to annoy any other person or to injure any person or property.

B.

The prohibition against firearms in subsection A. of this section shall operate as a prohibition against the possession of a handgun by a person authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to Tennessee Code Annotated § 39-17-1351 within any park owned or operated by the metropolitan government

 

I'm not real up to speed on how local laws are grandfathered in, but I don't want to be the test case.

Edited July 16, 2013 by monkeylizard

[Clod Stomper]

I should have mentioned that you should not drive through Pig in Forage or Seeeverville. Next time go through Townsend.

The Rangers at Abrams Cr trailhead did a pretty good job of sizing you up without harassing you or even mentioning the weapon, huh. :)

It is sad that so many families were displaced by the fedgov when the park was created. The Smokies were full of homesteads in the '30s. It is very telling that one group of people who were given a lifetime lease (some of which were somehow passed on for generations) were the owners of the cabins just above the campground where you camped. They weren't poor farmers, though, they were well-connected city folk. Those cabins were weekend getaways. The last lease expired, I think, around 2000-2001.

The only other exception I know of was a farmer in Cades Cove, Kermit. Can't remember his last name. He ran cattle there until he died. Also sometime around 2000 IIRC.

Not sure which brochure you were reading, but the thing about the red wolves is funny. There were never enough wolves to even make a dent in the deer population. Parvo (I think) kept killing them. They eventually abandoned that project.

That was a great write-up of your trip. Thanks for sharing.

[whitewolf001]

Good informative post, I was with you on the AR business. When I went to New Orleans last Sunday I OCed with a shirt pulled over it for the most part. I had my AR and 870 in the hotel room broken down, hidden, and bagged with my luggage. Figured a window can be broken on my truck but my room was secured and a do not disturb sign was hung outside to insure that none of the maids would come in.

[Guest nra37922]

Try Pigeon Forge around Christmas.....

[JAB]

As someone who doesn't live all that far from Pigeon Forge, Gatlinburg and the GSMNP, I rarely go there this time of year.  I actually enjoy walking around Gatlinburg but I wait for the off season.  Heck, if you go there on a week day during the off season, you will almost think that the apocalypse has happened because the place will be almost deserted.

 

During the Summer, though, I prefer going to the Tellico Mountains.  Every year it gets a little more busy up there but nothing like the Smoky Mountains.

 

I remember discussing 'red wolves' in a zoo-archeology class at U.T. back in the '90s.  My professor told us that there was one, very good reason that the efforts to 'repopulate' them kept failing.  That reason, he said, is because there is no such thing as a 'red wolf' as a true species nor has such a species ever existed.   Instead, the creatures which are called 'red wolves' are actually a hybrid of wolves and coyotes.  Further, according to him, they are not nor were they ever a very viable hybrid.  In other words, nature makes every effort to get rid of them and these so-called 'conservation' efforts were actually working against the natural order.

Edited July 16, 2013 by JAB

[jgradyc]

Nashville Metro parks are no-carry zones. The city went around and around on this about three years ago. However, two Metro parks are excluded due to their remote nature: Beamon and Bells Bend Parks out towards Joelton and Ashland City respectively.

 

By the way, how were the ticks on the GSMNP trails?  I found dozens on my two dogs and myself after my last hike in Bells Bend a month ago... I haven't been back. :yuck:

Edited July 16, 2013 by jgradyc

[monkeylizard]

As someone who doesn't live all that far from Pigeon Forge, Gatlinburg and the GSMNP, I rarely go there this time of year.

 

So when is the off-season up there?

[JayC]

If the city ordinance mentions 39-17-1351 is was likely passed well after 1986, and therefore is preempted by state law.  Not that I would want to be the test case either.

 

I'm not entirely sure on this, but it is my understanding that Metro Nashville's parks are off limits by city ordinance even without a TCA 39-17-1311 sign.

 

From Metro's Municipal Code:

 

I'm not real up to speed on how local laws are grandfathered in, but I don't want to be the test case.

 

[peejman]

By the way, how were the ticks on the GSMNP trails? I found dozens on my two dogs and myself after my last hike in Bells Bend a month ago... I haven't been back. :yuck:

We've been hiking a few times recently and have had zero ticks. As long as you stay on the trails, you should be fine. Your dogs definitely won't get any ticks as they're not allowed on the hiking trails.

[JayC]

There is another out in Bellevue which is on State owned land that also can't legally be posted, since Metro doesn't have complete control of the park (land owned by the state), and as such can't get both entities to agree to the posting.  My guess is if we started digging really carefully we'd find other parks around the state which are sitting on state owned land, and can't legally be posted anymore.

 

Nashville Metro parks are no-carry zones. The city went around and around on this about three years ago. However, two Metro parks are excluded due to their remote nature: Beamon and Bells Bend Parks out towards Joelton and Ashland City respectively.

 

By the way, how were the ticks on the GSMNP trails?  I found dozens on my two dogs and myself after my last hike in Bells Bend a month ago... I haven't been back. :yuck:

[peejman]

So when is the off-season up there?

January thru march with the exception of valentines day.

[gregintenn]

January thru march with the exception of valentines day.

;;;;and New Year's weekend! :rant: Don't ask how I know that.

[Clod Stomper]

January thru march with the exception of valentines day.

 

It usually gets semi-tolerable between the time kids go back to school in August and when the leaves start turning in October.  But yeah, January through March is the best time.

[Guest confidence]

Nashville Metro parks are no-carry zones. The city went around and around on this about three years ago. However, two Metro parks are excluded due to their remote nature: Beamon and Bells Bend Parks out towards Joelton and Ashland City respectively.

 

By the way, how were the ticks on the GSMNP trails?  I found dozens on my two dogs and myself after my last hike in Bells Bend a month ago... I haven't been back. :yuck:

 

No ticks!

[Randall53]

That's a great report. Lot's of good info....thanks!! :up:

[Oh Shoot]

If the city ordinance mentions 39-17-1351 is was likely passed well after 1986, and therefore is preempted by state law.  Not that I would want to be the test case either.

 

1351 doesn't apply to city/county parks. No carry in parks has to have been either grandfathered in or posted. Assuming state law is followed.

 

- OS

[AU_88]

My family and I drove down to Cade's Cove last week and it was beautiful. My fiancé wanted to see a bear, and while the scenery was well worth the trip, the only wildlife we saw were three crows. I was a little disappointed, but we didn't really have time to get out and wonder around on foot. Definitely a trip I will make again though!

[JayC]

OS,

 

My point was if the local ordinance references 1351, which it is my understanding there was no 1351 in 1986, that means the law was passed or amended after the cut off date for grandfathering in local laws.

 

1351 doesn't apply to city/county parks. No carry in parks has to have been either grandfathered in or posted. Assuming state law is followed.

 

- OS

 

[peejman]

My family and I drove down to Cade's Cove last week and it was beautiful. My fiancé wanted to see a bear, and while the scenery was well worth the trip, the only wildlife we saw were three crows. I was a little disappointed, but we didn't really have time to get out and wonder around on foot. Definitely a trip I will make again though!

 

Wrong time of year.  Mid summer, mid day, all the critters are napping.  Best time to see critters is cool, misty days.