HCP Instructors.......What's On Your "I Love Me" Wall ?

[BigPoppa]

Post your firearms related creds..........I'll kick it off.

Instructor Credentials

** Tennessee POST Commission - Specialized Firearms Instructor

** Knoxville Police Department - Firearms Instructor School

** Southeast Missouri State University Law Enforcement Academy - Handgun Instructor School

** Tennessee Department of Safety Handgun Safety Instructor

** California Department of Justice Handgun Safety Instructor

Selected Student Experience

** Defensive Pistol Skills Course - Suarez International

** Defensive Shotgun I and II - Rangemaster

** Tactical Pistol Workshop - Northeast Alabama Police Academy

** Handgun I, II, and III - Personal Responsibility, Inc.

** Low Light Operator - Surefire Institute

** Shotgun (870) Armorer - Remington

** Approximately 100 additional hours of basic/user/operator level training

HCP/CCW Credentials Held

** Tennessee, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania

Edited October 7, 2009 by BigPoppa

[robbiev]

I used to keep up with everything I have done, and I still have everything in a folder somewhere, but here is a basic rundown:

State of TN handgun instructor

NRA: Several disciplines

Law enforcement: have trained with quite a few instructors, but I don't have any official certification, and I do some training of LEOs.

IDPA: SO instructor, and former Area Coodinator (gave it up a couple of years ago because I didn't have time to go to matches very often)

I've taken classes from a bunch of different instructors, and numerous schools; pistol, rifle, sniper, contact weapons, and I compete in IDPA and IPSC matches.

I used to keep up with the details of every school I attended, but I found out a long time ago that if you can't say "I used to be a cop" the average Joe couldn't care less what your other credentials are, so for the most part, I don't talk about it much.

Edited August 13, 2008 by robbiev

[Guest canynracer]

I would tell you but......yeah..

[Guest Todd@CIS]

This list only covers FIREARMS related material since I think that was what the original poster was asking.

Also, this list does not include my active duty military schools/certifications.

LE Schools

Police Academy-WI

Metro Nashville Police Academy

TN POST Firearms Instructor

TN POST Advanced Firearms Instructor-TLETA

LE Rifle Instructor-Dickson Co SO

Active Shooter Response-Smyrna PD

SWAT/SRT Operator-US Army, FT McClellan, AL

TN POST Instructor Developement

TN POST Police Instructor Certification, Firearms-TLETA

Force on Force Instructor-TLETA

Armorer Schools

Remington-factory

Benelli-factory

Glock-factory

Springfield Armory XD-Team One (Springfield Armory subcontractor)

AK47-Tactical Response

AR15-TacticaLogic

HCP

TN HCP Instructor

Owner, Critical Incident Strategies

Civilian Firearm Schools

Fighting Rifle-Tactical Response

Fighting Pistol-Tactical Response

Fighting Shotgun-Tactical Response

Carbine Operator-EAG/Pat Rogers

Tactical Rifle-Options for Personal Security

Patrol Rifle-Dickson Co SO

Tactical Rifle-Dickson Co SO

Defensive Pistol-Tom Givens

Low Light Operator-Surefire

Defensive Pistol-Larry Vickers

Defensive Snubby-Claude Werner

All documentation for the above list is available for inspection to C.I.S. students.

I say this because anyone can post anything on the internet (I would encourage students to check out/ask potential instructors).

Edited October 19, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[Guest Coal Creek Armory]

Our instructor hasn't finished hanging all of his certificates, but here is what he has on the wall so far:

T.L.E.T.A. Graduate

T.L.E.T.A. Visiting Faculty

T.L.E.T.A Advanced Firearms School

T.L.E.T.A. Courtroom Security Training Class

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification General Departmental Instructor

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Shootings and School Violence

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Officer Survival

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Sub-Machine Gun

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Tactical Shotgun

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Firearms

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Use of Force

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Patrol Rifle/Carbine

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification SWAT

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Defensive Tactics

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Tactical Baton

State of Tennessee POST Police Instructor Certification Chemical Weapons

PPCT Defensive Tactics Instructor

F.B.I. SWAT School

F.B.I. Advanced SWAT School

F.B.I. Police Firearms Instructor School

F.B.I. Special Tactical Firearms School

F.B.I. Sniper/Observer School

F.B.I. Officer Survival

F.B.I. Tactical Subgun/Handgun transition course

NRA Police Firearms Instructor Development School – K.C.S.D.

NRA Law Enforcement Patrol Rifle Instructor Development Course – K.C.S.D.

Knoxville Police Department – Officer Survival School

PPCT Defensive Tactics Instructor Certification

TAC/AERKO Aerosol Chemical Weapons Instructor Certification

Glock Instructor’s Workshop Certification

ASP Tactical Baton Instructor Certification

Northeast Alabama Police Academy, Jacksonville Alabama, Tactical Firearms Instructor

TN Dept. of Safety State Certified Handgun Instructor

TN Dept. of Safety State Certified Armed Guard Instructor

Edited August 13, 2008 by Coal Creek Armory

[BigPoppa]

This list only covers FIREARMS related material since I think that was what the original poster was asking.

+ 1............lets stick to firearms related stuff

[Guest eyebedam]

Showin off the street creds. I can dig it. Who has the Mall tacticool ninja degree?

[Marswolf]

Boy, you guys do love yourselves....

I'm not a HCP instructor, nor do I play one on TV. OTOH I do occasionally train military and LE personnel. So what's on my wall. Just a small shadow box that no one ever sees but me.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

My own thinking on this though is this. Is your training really relevant to civilian concealed carry and reacting to the (as Southnarc calls it ) the Criminal Assault Paradigm? If not then it is just not relevant to the students. Nothing wrong with it. It just does not apply to the skill sets the students really NEED.

So what if I'm a parachute jump master? Are the CCW students going to be deploying from the air? Probably not....So it is not relevant. Nor would underwater demolition, flying a helicopter or being an expert in the use of the M60 be at all applicable to CCW training.

What is? Avoiding situations and eliminating personal habits that likely lead to trouble or to being chosen as a victim. Carrying a weapon concealed on the street in what you REALLY wear on the street. Managing Unknown Contacts (Southnarc's terminology), recognizing the cues of impending criminal assault. Accessing your weapon from concealment both proactively before the fight has started and reactively while you are under assault. Running the weapon system and scoring hits under pressure. Scanning for accomplices. Preparing witnesses. Talking to police. (Which mostly consists of keeping it minimal and exercising your 5th ammendmant rights).

Unless your training (as a student) deals with those areas then that training really has little to do with what the CCW student needs to be well prepared for moving about armed (or unarmed) in public. But that is just MY OPINION.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[robbiev]

Showin off the street creds. I can dig it. Who has the Mall tacticool ninja degree?

Here ya go.

http://www.rrmemphis.com/ninja.ppt

The class is free, but my signature costs $150.

Edited August 14, 2008 by robbiev

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Wow.

"Mall ninja?" Umm, OK. If you say so, but I just listed some schools that I've been to...most of which my employer sent me to.

"In love with myself?" How so? As a cop and trainer, I am REQUIRED to keep up with my training for things like court testimony. Since I have this list, I just dug it out. No arrogance involved, I promise. Those that know me might say that I'm quite self-depreciating.

"My own thinking on this though is this. Is your training really relevant to civilian concealed carry and reacting to the (as Southnarc calls it ) the Criminal Assault Paradigm? If not then it is just not relevant to the students. Nothing wrong with it. It just does not apply to the skill sets the students really NEED.

So what if I'm a parachute jump master? Are the CCW students going to be deploying from the air? Probably not....So it is not relevant. Nor would underwater demolition, flying a helicopter or being an expert in the use of the M60 be at all applicable to CCW training.

What is? Avoiding situations and eliminating personal habits that likely lead to trouble or to being chosen as a victim. Carrying a weapon concealed on the street in what you REALLY wear on the street. Managing Unknown Contacts (Southnarc's terminology), recognizing the cues of impending criminal assault. Accessing your weapon from concealment both proactively before the fight has started and reactively while you are under assault. Running the weapon system and scoring hits under pressure. Scanning for accomplices. Preparing witnesses. Talking to police. (Which mostly consists of keeping it minimal and exercising your 5th ammendmant rights).

Unless your training (as a student) deals with those areas then that training really has little to do with what the CCW student needs to be well prepared for moving about armed (or unarmed) in public."

I agree...but two points.

One, this has nothing to do with what the original poster asked.

Two, some of my listed training is more relevant than others (although alot of our courses don't have anything to do with CCW as you referenced). But, does it neccessarily hurt? If I have received some sort of training that you have not (police, US Army SRT, etc.) does that automatically put me out of touch as a trainer?

Look, a thread was started and a question was asked. That question didn't ask about relevance other than being firearms related.

I answered. No more, no less.

Since I do use this board for commercial reasons, and put myself out there as a trainer, I thought maybe, just maybe, it might be useful to perspective students to see what I've been exposed to and where I'm coming from. Otherwise, I wouldn't have answered and I would have just stared at my little "shadowbox" all by myself too.

Regards

Edited August 14, 2008 by Todd@CIS

[Guest eyebedam]

Showin off the street creds. I can dig it. Who has the Mall tacticool ninja degree?

Wow.

"Mall ninja?" Umm, OK. If you say so, but I just listed some schools that I've been to...most of which my employer sent me to.

"My own thinking on this though is this. Is your training really relevant to civilian concealed carry and reacting to the (as Southnarc calls it ) the Criminal Assault Paradigm? If not then it is just not relevant to the students. Nothing wrong with it. It just does not apply to the skill sets the students really NEED.

So what if I'm a parachute jump master? Are the CCW students going to be deploying from the air? Probably not....So it is not relevant. Nor would underwater demolition, flying a helicopter or being an expert in the use of the M60 be at all applicable to CCW training.

What is? Avoiding situations and eliminating personal habits that likely lead to trouble or to being chosen as a victim. Carrying a weapon concealed on the street in what you REALLY wear on the street. Managing Unknown Contacts (Southnarc's terminology), recognizing the cues of impending criminal assault. Accessing your weapon from concealment both proactively before the fight has started and reactively while you are under assault. Running the weapon system and scoring hits under pressure. Scanning for accomplices. Preparing witnesses. Talking to police. (Which mostly consists of keeping it minimal and exercising your 5th ammendmant rights).

Unless your training (as a student) deals with those areas then that training really has little to do with what the CCW student needs to be well prepared for moving about armed (or unarmed) in public."

I agree...but two points.

One, this has nothing to do with what the original poster asked.

Two, some of my listed training is more relevant than others (although alot of our courses don't have anything to do with CCW as you referenced). But, does it neccessarily hurt? If I have received some sort of training that you have not (police, US Army SRT, etc.) does that automatically put me out of touch as a trainer?

Look, a thread was started and a question was asked.

I answered. No more, no less.

Since I do use this board for commercial reasons, and put myself out there as a trainer, I thought maybe, just maybe, it might be useful to perspective students to see what I've been exposed to and where I'm coming from. Otherwise, I wouldn't have answered and I would have just stared at my little "shadowbox" all by myself too.

Regards

Actually that part was meant kind of as a joke No need to get your jump boots strings crossed. I thought it was a pretty cool initail post of showing off some of the instructors certifications. I dont believe anyones post was meant to discredit any of you.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Yeah, like I said in my post NO DISRESPECT to the LE guys is intended. BUt I can definitely empathize with Robbiev. It was NOT intended as an attck on you Todd. And in fact as long as the message is tailored to the audience the more skills the better. But there arises a problem when a CCW class is taught from a cop's perspective. The students are not cops, do not move in the same social circles, do not have same institutional support structures in place and are not members of the same culture, and have a very different reason and mission for being armed.

My post was more a rambling stream of consciousness thinking out loud monologue about how the average uneducated (not meaning he's dumb, but meaning he does not know just how much he does not know) HCP customer/student is impressed by a big resume that includes a lot of Police or Military specific schools and skills. But often our resumes have little to do with what we are really teaching (or what we should be teaching). Kinda like the physics teacher filling in for the biology teacher...while he may have a hell of a resume his degree is not in biology.

And while I can teach you how to absolutely smoke an IDPA , IPSC, Cowboy Action or Subgun match course of fire is that REALLY all that relevant to a gunfight at 4 yards in the mall parking lot?Not at all. Yes the gun operates the same whether a cop is shooting at someone he pulled over in a traffic stop or joe citizen is shooting at a mugger.But the actual mechanics of the gun operation is the last 5% of the solution. Other than that, the situations are really not very often all that similar. When is the last time that anyone heard of a uniformed police officer getting robbed at an ATM? And it is frowned upon when cops run when they see trouble starting but that IS appropriate for the average CCW guy.And a REAL fight does not look much like an IDPA match stage.......so we ALL have things in our resume that may look good but not be all that applicable to the problem at hand.

Now, undercover work, where the undercover officer may well be the victim of a robbery or assault attempt(especially while doing drug enforcement work) is exactly in line with civilian self defense. But Uniformed police work and the attendant skills that they use to do their job is not really all that similar to civilian CCW. But most students do not know the difference.......

And I know you could not know the back story on this. This is actually something we discussed at NTI in the "Instructor Roundtable"- teaching what is marketable vs teaching what civilians REALLY need. And among my peer group we discuss this from time to time- do we give them flaming helicopters and building clearing exercises or do we give them how to watch body language, how to deescalate, how to access your weapon while under physical assault?

The typical guy thinks the building clearing SWAT stuff is cool, sees the body language and deescalation as boring and the weapon accessing as including more contact than they wanted to have-after all he carries a gun so he does not have to learn to fight.... But those things are OVERWHELMINGLY more likely to be used by a civilian than working on clearing an unknown structure looking for bad guys............

So again, no disrespect to the police or military guys among us. I was not attacking anyone. I just find it ...odd...that the average CCW school shopper gives more credence to whether the guy used to be a cop than whether the guy actually has carried CONCEALED every day all over the place for the last 15 years (without a badge to bail him out if he screws up) and has sucessfully resisited armed criminal assault. And I probably should have started a seperate thread for my thoughts on "resumes and what they REALLY tell us". So I apologize if anyone took offense...none was intended. Just pointing out that even though guns are involved in all three, cop skills, soldier skills , match shooting skills and civilian CCW skills have VERY little to do with each other.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Guest grimel]

Managing Unknown Contacts (Southnarc's terminology), recognizing the cues of impending criminal assault.

That may be the single best class a person could take. He scared the living He!! out of me with this stuff. I was a much happier person before going over the material. Ignorance is truly bliss at times.

[BigPoppa]

I just find it ...odd...that the average CCW school shopper gives more credence to whether the guy used to be a cop than whether the guy actually has carried CONCEALED every day all over the place for the last 15 years (without a badge to bail him out if he screws up) and has sucessfully resisited armed criminal assault.

I'm going to have a lot more input on this thread when I get home, but I HAD to reply to this part...............

Randy, you don't seriously think a badge is a get out of trouble free card do you ? You've got to understand that all a badge does is bring more scrutiny, more second guessing, and more Monday morning quarterbacking to any given situation. If LE gets it right 2500 times....well, that's their job. If LE blows it.....just once....well, then that officer is inept, trigger happy, racist, illiterate, out of shape, rookie fever, etc. etc. - just pick the derogatory adjective depending on the specifics.

The press, juries, and the general public all look at any given situation much differently if LE is involved than if it's Joe Six Pack HCP holder. Flamers....start your engines, but I really don't see the badge "bailing out" any LEO who might drop the ball.

This thread has pretty much gone off the tracks from what I intended when I started it. That's okay. We all love open, intelligent, aggressive discussion that is kept courteous and civil.

As I said, I'll have more to say later.

[BigPoppa]

Randy, I will definitely agree with you that the average HCP student, and even most HCP holders, don't know how much they don't know.

This is why I, you, Todd, and most everybody else I know of that does this kind of thing right, recommends to HCP students to take more training. I tell EVERY class....."Please don't stop with this. Take more classes. Even if it's not from me, that's okay, but let me refer you to some reputable trainers that I know"

As we all know, 93 % WON'T take any further training. Half of that number won't even ever shoot their gun again unless they have to when their HCP expires.

So, yes, I agree that (sad but true) many times when somebody is shopping for their HCP class, they will go for the sizzle rather than the steak.

teaching what is marketable vs teaching what civilians REALLY need.

Lord knows I have taken my fair share of hits on here for running a two day HCP course. But most of us try to "keep it real". This is why, on my website, you won't see things such as "You will no longer be scared of the dark"...or...."We'll make you a surgeon with your gun" - (actual advertising)

Edited August 15, 2008 by BigPoppa

[Guest Mugster]

Yeah, like I said in my post NO DISRESPECT to the LE guys is intended. BUt I can definitely empathize with Robbiev. It was NOT intended as an attck on you Todd. And in fact as long as the message is tailored to the audience the more skills the better. But there arises a problem when a CCW class is taught from a cop's perspective. The students are not cops, do not move in the same social circles, do not have same institutional support structures in place and are not members of the same culture, and have a very different reason and mission for being armed.

My post was more a rambling stream of consciousness thinking out loud monologue about how the average uneducated (not meaning he's dumb, but meaning he does not know just how much he does not know) HCP customer/student is impressed by a big resume that includes a lot of Police or Military specific schools and skills. But often our resumes have little to do with what we are really teaching (or what we should be teaching). Kinda like the physics teacher filling in for the biology teacher...while he may have a hell of a resume his degree is not in biology.

And while I can teach you how to absolutely smoke an IDPA , IPSC, Cowboy Action or Subgun match course of fire is that REALLY all that relevant to a gunfight at 4 yards in the mall parking lot?Not at all. Yes the gun operates the same whether a cop is shooting at someone he pulled over in a traffic stop or joe citizen is shooting at a mugger.But the actual mechanics of the gun operation is the last 5% of the solution. Other than that, the situations are really not very often all that similar. When is the last time that anyone heard of a uniformed police officer getting robbed at an ATM? And it is frowned upon when cops run when they see trouble starting but that IS appropriate for the average CCW guy.And a REAL fight does not look much like an IDPA match stage.......so we ALL have things in our resume that may look good but not be all that applicable to the problem at hand.

Now, undercover work, where the undercover officer may well be the victim of a robbery or assault attempt(especially while doing drug enforcement work) is exactly in line with civilian self defense. But Uniformed police work and the attendant skills that they use to do their job is not really all that similar to civilian CCW. But most students do not know the difference.......

And I know you could not know the back story on this. This is actually something we discussed at NTI in the "Instructor Roundtable"- teaching what is marketable vs teaching what civilians REALLY need. And among my peer group we discuss this from time to time- do we give them flaming helicopters and building clearing exercises or do we give them how to watch body language, how to deescalate, how to access your weapon while under physical assault?

The typical guy thinks the building clearing SWAT stuff is cool, sees the body language and deescalation as boring and the weapon accessing as including more contact than they wanted to have-after all he carries a gun so he does not have to learn to fight.... But those things are OVERWHELMINGLY more likely to be used by a civilian than working on clearing an unknown structure looking for bad guys............

So again, no disrespect to the police or military guys among us. I was not attacking anyone. I just find it ...odd...that the average CCW school shopper gives more credence to whether the guy used to be a cop than whether the guy actually has carried CONCEALED every day all over the place for the last 15 years (without a badge to bail him out if he screws up) and has sucessfully resisited armed criminal assault. And I probably should have started a seperate thread for my thoughts on "resumes and what they REALLY tell us". So I apologize if anyone took offense...none was intended. Just pointing out that even though guns are involved in all three, cop skills, soldier skills , match shooting skills and civilian CCW skills have VERY little to do with each other.

Actually, it wasn't that long ago that a police captain checking into a hotel in memphis was mugged for his camera and his gun. I think he wound up shot in the foot.

Personally, I'd take a class from an NRA certified instructor, no matter of background, before I'd take it from anyone else. At least the NRA has a hierarchical structure and some type of review/qual process for the instructors.

I personally think the last line of your diatribe is completely off base. I'd have no problem giving a carry permit to any veteran with actual combat experience from a combat arms branch. I believe the state sees eye to eye with me on that one too.

[robbiev]

Actually that part was meant kind of as a joke No need to get your jump boots strings crossed. I thought it was a pretty cool initail post of showing off some of the instructors certifications. I dont believe anyones post was meant to discredit any of you.

Uh, yeah. I thought it was pretty obvious the mall ninja comment was a joke referring to that thread a while back where the guy claimed to be "special forces" at the mall. I didn't think anybody took that as any kind of personal insult, or even ANY kind of insult.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Randy, you don't seriously think a badge is a get out of trouble free card do you ? You've got to understand that all a badge does is bring more scrutiny, more second guessing, and more Monday morning quarterbacking to any given situation. If LE gets it right 2500 times....well, that's their job. If LE blows it.....just once....well, then that officer is inept, trigger happy, racist, illiterate, out of shape, rookie fever, etc. etc. - just pick the derogatory adjective depending on the specifics.

The press, juries, and the general public all look at any given situation much differently if LE is involved than if it's Joe Six Pack HCP holder. Flamers....start your engines, but I really don't see the badge "bailing out" any LEO who might drop the ball.

Big Poppa, If you shoot someone negligently then NO it does not help at all. But we all KNOW whether we like to admit it or not that the responding officers are going to treat you and me differently if you have a badge and I do not. Membership has its privileges. Not saying that is always bad, but it is true.

I have been asked to get out of the car at a traffic stop and frisked. But when my passenger produced his badge suddenly it went from "possible felony stop" to sunshine and bunnies and "Ya'll be safe drivin' home ya hear"......what caused this sudden change in attitude? The badge.

And Mugster ,as far as issuing permits to military guys Ok whatever.Maybe you think that them having been an 11 bravo absolves them of having to learn anything else about functioning in the CIVILIAN WORLD armed with a concealed pistol. That is your opinion. But if you do not see that military warfighting skill and concealed carry skills are VASTLY different things, then I do not know what to tell you. And while we are at it, what percentage of military guys EVER use a pistol in an operational capacity? ALMOST NONE.Unless they are MPs or Spec Ops they probably haven't even seen a pistol in the military since basic.... So while they may be perfectly well trained to move about and conduct platoon size and larger operations with their fellow soldiers backing them up that does not somehow all of a sudden make them qualified experts on criminal assault or reactively drawing a pistol from concealment while under assault.

[Guest Mugster]

Big Poppa, If you shoot someone negligently then NO it does not help at all. But we all KNOW whether we like to admit it or not that the responding officers are going to treat you and me differently if you have a badge and I do not. Membership has its privileges. Not saying that is always bad, but it is true.

I have been asked to get out of the car at a traffic stop and frisked. But when my passenger produced his badge suddenly it went from "possible felony stop" to sunshine and bunnies and "Ya'll be safe drivin' home ya hear"......what caused this sudden change in attitude? The badge.

And Mugster ,as far as issuing permits to military guys Ok whatever.Maybe you think that them having been an 11 bravo absolves them of having to learn anything else about functioning in the CIVILIAN WORLD armed with a concealed pistol. That is your opinion. But if you do not see that military warfighting skill and concealed carry skills are VASTLY different things, then I do not know what to tell you. And while we are at it, what percentage of military guys EVER use a pistol in an operational capacity? ALMOST NONE.Unless they are MPs or Spec Ops they probably haven't even seen a pistol in the military since basic.... So while they may be perfectly well trained to move about and conduct platoon size and larger operations with their fellow soldiers backing them up that does not somehow all of a sudden make them qualified experts on criminal assault or reactively drawing a pistol from concealment while under assault.

Thats true. A run of the mill E-something on a 2 year enlistment probably hasn't fired a shot from a handgun in anger. They've probably all qualified with one. Every officer/NCO that ever did payroll or signed for demo or ammo or delivered documents has probably carried a loaded pistol for extended periods while on duty. Possibly some of it concealed.

I'll grant you that most soldiers, even combat arms soldiers, probably don't know or care what the bullet weight of M855 ammo is. And they aren't generally "experts" in small arms, if such a thing as an "expert" exists. They use them quite well.

However, they don't wear armadillo hats and they aren't likely to shoot either themselves or me (or any other good guys) with a handgun they are carrying. An honorable discharge proves trustworthiness and the ability to handle a certain level of responsibility. That is the primary thing that you need to use/carry a handgun.

[Guest Grout]

I could not give a flying flip whether or not a HCP instructor has a military or police background.They have a specific course they are required to present.Personally I don't believe one should be required to have a HCP.The human instinct of self preservation is your permit.That being said when it comes to advanced classes I would put more credence in an instructor who has been there and done that rather than someone who attends training classes as a hobby.

[Guest unreconstructed1]

Our instructor hasn't finished hanging all of his certificates,

If what he had hanging on the wall wasn't all of them, ya'll might want to think about extending your training room walls...

as for me:

LE:got one of those little plastic FOP fundraiser sherriffs badge stickers on my back window

military: I was in JROTC in high school

really ultra cool private tactical squads: Black belt- shopping center tactical Ninjitsu training course

Rambo movies: watched every one of them

Walker Texas Ranger: watched all 5 seasons

other credentials: I stayed in a holiday inn express ast night.

[robbiev]

...That being said when it comes to advanced classes I would put more credence in an instructor who has been there and done that rather than someone who attends training classes as a hobby.

(excuse the semi-rambling)

I agree, depending on the class. If I go take a tactics class, then yes, I prefer to take a class from someone who actually knows a little about the subject.

However, in reference to one of my previous statements, and not directly related to anything you said, "I used to be a cop" in and of itself, to me, isn't good enough. I want to know what the actual experience is. *I* can truthfully say I used to be a cop, but it's a technicality. I was never an active duty officer. I just had a badge. (a side note, I never tell people I used to be a cop)

Contrastly, if I go take a class to teach me how to shoot faster and more accurately, I'd prefer to have someone that can shoot fast AND who can teach me what he knows. If that's the only thing I'm there for, to me, his other credentials are somewhat irrelavent, in that context.

In short: I'm only interested in relevant experience. Many people are only interested in whether someone is or was (insert whatever here) even if it isn't directly relevant to the subject at hand.

Edited August 17, 2008 by robbiev

[BimmerFreak]

Wow. Im humbled by the awesome display of badassery here! :blah:

A few thoughts:

1. I understand that you instructors that teach civilians and the pay to play crowd are in a tough spot.

Your ability to market and promote yourselves have a direct impact on your ability to earn a good living.

Bright eyed civilians are impressed when they see lots of pretty diplomas and name dropping like SRT...FBI....SWAT....SUPER NINJA....etc.

I understand your position, and I dont fault you for pushing yourself or your wares.

2. I have had the honor serving with a bunch of certified studs.

I have even had the honor of instructing with some of these same studs.

None of these guys had I Love Me Walls, or wore their resume on their chest. They didnt need to.

When these guys walked onto a range, or into a classroom respect and awe was in no short supply. No need to chest thump. No need to list 47 different "high speed" schools attended. No promotion needed.

3. I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I spent 20 years humping my hotel on my back

Edited August 17, 2008 by BimmerFreak

[R1100R]

+1 to Hero Gear. I been carrying that damn spoon for 32 years.