Happy Ramadan everyone!

[mk19]

I usually don't partake in these kinds of topics, I am a true believer of letting people having their own opinions, as long as those opinions are not harmful to others. People from all faiths do retarded things, notice I said people not religions. Religions are there to guide people, it is people who go and the get the instructions all wrong and lose their ways. I know these days a certain number of Muslims are not making the life for the rest any easier, but that does not mean all Muslims are bad, this can be said about ALL religious groups. I saw the following link and thought maybe this would give those with open minds something to consider.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151469002676644&set=vb.653316643&type=2&theater

[Hershmeister]

I usually don't partake in these kinds of topics, I am a true believer of letting people having their own opinions, as long as those opinions are not harmful to others. People from all faiths do retarded things, notice I said people not religions. Religions are there to guide people, it is people who go and the get the instructions all wrong and lose their ways. I know these days a certain number of Muslims are not making the life for the rest any easier, but that does not mean all Muslims are bad, this can be said about ALL religious groups. I saw the following link and thought maybe this would give those with open minds something to consider.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151469002676644&set=vb.653316643&type=2&theater

That "speech" is ridiculous on its face, as mr mehdi hasan fails to actually address facts but rather engages in rhetorical flourishes and misrepresentations and flat out lies

See this response :


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/07/mehdi-hasan-tries-fails-to-prove-that-islam-is-a-peaceful-religion.html

[Hershmeister]

PS; the argument is NOT whether Muslims are bad. The argument is that Islam on its face is an intolerant and tyranical religion. Which I would care less about if it didn't affect anyone but its acolytes. Unfortunately, it affects non-believers of Islam (Kafir) in a significant way across the globe. Edited July 12, 2013 by Hershmeister

[Worriedman]

The argument is that Islam on its face is an intolerant and tyranical religion theocracy.

FTFY

[Dolomite_supafly]

For those who think muslims, any muslim, is your friend think about this. If a muslim is forced to choose between you or their religion. Which do you think they will choose?

 

I guarantee every single muslim in the world would try to kill every single non muslim if they thought Allah told them to. And I am honestly surprized some mullah hasn't come out publically and said that. That was always our fear every time we heard the call to prayer. That they were secretly saying kill the infidels.

 

They all believe in, and would die for, the Koran and Allah. And the Koran is filled with hate against non muslims. It isn't just a few radicalized individuals, it is every single muslim on the planet that belive the same. They are intolerant of non muslims look for reasons to get upset every chance they get. They demand that we become tolerant of them while at the same time they are intolerant of everyone else. And if one muslim is upset then every other muslim within ear shot is upset. Turmoil draws them in like moths to a light.

 

I will give you an example, we had an American worker pick up what he thought was a piece of paper. He seen it had the local writing on it so he asked a local what it was. The local flipped out and the American came to us because it was one of our locals that was flipping out. Well within 15 minutes we had a full blown riot inside our compound demanding we behead the American or the mob would kill us all. It was touchy for the next 24 hours but eventually the group settled down as we tried to explain it was an honest mistake. The problem? The piece of paper was a page from the Koran and a non muslim had unknowingly touched it. They wanted to have the guys head and if he wasn't with us they would have killed him. Now imagine the same thing here except someone finds a page out of a Bible. Most would just throw that page in the trash without giving it a second thought. We had to keep the guy in hiding for a day or so then fly him out under armed guard because we still had locals that wanted him dead.

 

For the video linked above, make no mistake he IS a die hard muslim and would kill every single person who criticized his religion if he could. He is a charismatic person so people think he is not a die hard muslim but he probably is more so than the last suicide bomber. Every person who claps in support is a fool for being fooled by him and his charisma. He even admits the muslim religion is not a pacifistic faith.

 

The muslims want their religious beliefs to be the predominent belief all over the world. It is a slow process, or at least used to be, but now it is gaining steam. Look at Europe, they have groups that are causing grief to non muslims. They have taken over and are using threats of mass violence to get their demands met. They demand that they use their own laws and values even when dealing with non muslims. This is how they will take over, slow and methodical.

 

 

 Here is a video that explains a lot more than most people know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmQOWJ5_kKU

[Guest nra37922]

Not to defend Muslim terrorists, or Muslims in general, but you have to admit that they at least defend their faith.  Christians seem to be good at building multi-million dollar buildings but do little when it comes to pushing back.  Prayer in school, ten commandments in courthouse, commencement speeches etc....Where in the Bible does Christ say 'Bend Over?'

[TMF]

Not to defend Muslim terrorists, or Muslims in general, but you have to admit that they at least defend their faith. Christians seem to be good at building multi-million dollar buildings but do little when it comes to pushing back. Prayer in school, ten commandments in courthouse, commencement speeches etc....Where in the Bible does Christ say 'Bend Over?'

There is something in there about turning the other cheek.

Taking up arms in the name of religion, any religion, is one of the most backward, caveman things to do. Taking up arms for the freedom to believe is different.

[Guest nra37922]

There is something in there about turning the other cheek.

Taking up arms in the name of religion, any religion, is one of the most backward, caveman things to do. Taking up arms for the freedom to believe is different.

Don't have to take up arms to defend ones religion.  But one has to be willing to say no and go to jail to defend their faith.  Haven't seen too many so called Christians take on judges and court rulings that minimize their faith and go to jail lately.  Not wanting to start a religious thread fight, just saying that at least a Muslim will do what they think needs to be done to defend their religion,  one may hate their tactics but at least they stand up for their faith. 

 

Personally I think that Islam is the direct opposite of Christianity and abhor it.  Just saying that Christians worldwide need to 'man up' before the tide hits.

Edited July 12, 2013 by nra37922

[TMF]

Don't have to take up arms to defend ones religion. But one has to be willing to say no and go to jail to defend their faith. Haven't seen too many so called Christians take on judges and court rulings that minimize their faith and go to jail lately. Not wanting to start a religious thread fight, just saying that at least a Muslim will do what they think needs to be done to defend their religion, one may hate their tactics but at least they stand up for their faith.

Personally I think that Islam is the direct opposite of Christianity and abhor it. Just saying that Christians worldwide need to 'man up' before the tide hits.

To to jail for what, praying? Has anyone been arrested for that? I don't agree that taking the Ten Commandments out of a courthouse is somehow persecuting Christians. I'm sure there are better examples than that.

When Muslims find their faith under ridicule or the like they take to the streets and burn things like a bunch of insolent children throwing a tantrum. If that is how Christians start behaving every time someone mocks Jesus it will be a sad day for all of us.

[Guest nra37922]

To to jail for what, praying? Has anyone been arrested for that? ....

Not that I know of because nobody has the gonads to tell the courts and the ACLU to go pound sand.  You find someone here and there that will break the shackles on their own but not an organized mass.

[Oh Shoot]

Yes, 1000, 2000 years ago, they both killed each other.

 

Just 500 years ago, the Catholic Church was still killing its own in the various Inquisitions, not to mention having a hand in wiping out native populations in the New World from that time forward.

 

And North American Christians didn't feel so bad about decimating our own native population, since they were "godless savages" and all. Not to mention a couple thousand "witches".

 

Islam is some 500 years younger than Christianity, so maybe it will become as "enlightened" in this regard as Christianity eventually did.

 

- OS

[Caster]

Just 500 years ago, the Catholic Church was still killing its own in the various Inquisitions, not to mention having a hand in wiping out native populations in the New World from that time forward.
 
And North American Christians didn't feel so bad about decimating our own native population, since they were "godless savages" and all. Not to mention a couple thousand "witches".
 
Islam is some 500 years younger than Christianity, so maybe it will become as "enlightened" in this regard as Christianity eventually did.
 
- OS

Exactly. I may accept that Christ died for my sins but his people are far from clean handed in the scheme of things.

[RichardR]

Just 500 years ago, the Catholic Church was still killing its own in the various Inquisitions, not to mention having a hand in wiping out native populations in the New World from that time forward.

And North American Christians didn't feel so bad about decimating our own native population, since they were "godless savages" and all. Not to mention a couple thousand "witches".

Islam is some 500 years younger than Christianity, so maybe it will become as "enlightened" in this regard as Christianity eventually did.

- OS

I'm not trying to be arguementive but ... I have a bit of free time this morning.

The Spanish Inquisitions happened as a result of Islamic Moor's brutal conquest & subsequent rule of Spain, the goal of the inquisitions were to rid Spain of the last Moorish remnents.

Native American tribe's regularly raided, butchered, enslaved, other native tribes as well as countless Christian settlements & settlers, laying the blame on Christians for fighting back, is sort of like laying the blame on Christians for being forced to resort to crusades.

Witches are wimminz & wimminz are da debil - so burning them was of course justified (that's a joke, insert little rolling, laughing face here).

Anyway ignoring the context of events, in order as they happened, to make people "guilty of something" just seems rather silly & ignorant to me, the same thing that the J4T crowd does by ignoring important details such as the smashing of the skull, in order to claim "Zimmerman murdered an unarmed kid!".

I'm not saying Christians are innocent of ever committing any atrocities, that would be equally as silly & ignorant on my part, my point is just that some folks ignore everything that doesn't fit into their little world view of how they'd had liked historical events to have happened.

There has never been a religion or a people or a nation that has not at one time in their history done something terrible to another religion, people or nation, that's just a sad fact of humanity.

The question is do we allow folks to justify/excuse the current bad behavior of Muslims, by pointing out past historical bad behavior of Christians? Because that doesn't really do anything to prevent or stop it, I've got a much better idea ... how about we hold those responsible for what they do in the here & now, & not what has happened historically?

I don't know about you, but that sounds like a much more productive venture to me, mull it over ... if anyone just simply cannot refrain from any further bashing of current Christians for what other Christians did a century or several centuries or more ago I guess that is what we'll have to discuss.

[Oh Shoot]

...The Spanish Inquisitions happened as a result of Islamic Moor's brutal conquest & subsequent rule of Spain, the goal of the inquisitions were to rid Spain of the last Moorish remnents.

I'd call that a rather narrow focus of the Spanish Inquisition. Likely as many Jews subjected as Moors. And plenty of "Christians" who fell out of favor for whatever reasons also. Matter of fact "backsliding" heresy seems to have been more harshly treated that "other culture" heresy. Also, there were Inquisitions in all Spanish colonies, most where there was little if any Muslim influence. And there were Inquisitions outside of Spain or its dominions.
 

Native American tribe's regularly raided, butchered, enslaved, other native tribes as well as countless Christian settlements & settlers, laying the blame on Christians for fighting back...

All cultures have had warfare. But few indulged in genocide, or at least succeeded at it so well. As far as conflicts with white folks, imagine how you'd react when your turf was invaded and your livelihood diminished or destroyed. And of course, you didn't respond regarding the virtual annihilation of Maya, Inca, Aztec (and other meso/south American) peoples, for the most part jointly bankrolled by the Vatican.
 

There has never been a religion or a people or a nation that has not at one time in their history done something terrible to another religion, people or nation, that's just a sad fact of humanity.

The question is do we allow folks to justify/excuse the current bad behavior of Muslims, by pointing out past historical bad behavior of Christians? Because that doesn't really do anything to prevent or stop it, I've got a much better idea ... how about we hold those responsible for what they do in the here & now, & not what has happened historically?

Those are much more cogent views I think -- and I'm not trying to make a case for anything, just pointing out the similar progression of both Christianity and Islam over their respective first 1600 years or so in particular.

The snuffing of Native American culture I won't lay directly on Christianity per se as neither Catholic nor Protestant institutions bankrolled it, only that it was predominately folks who claimed to be Christian who both committed and allowed it -- the same type who sanctioned slavery and later the denial of equal rights all the way through the 1960's, and to some extent even today.

Proving only that religious piety doesn't necessarily result in equally ethical practice, individually or collectively.

- OS

Edited July 12, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[RichardR]

I'd call that a rather narrow focus of the Spanish Inquisition. Likely as many Jews subjected as Moors. And plenty of "Christians" who fell out of favor for whatever reasons also.

Do you have evidence of this? Or is this unsupported postulation? I don't doubt that there were probably some, but they would had been outside of their original mandate.


Matter of fact "backsliding" heresy seems to have been more harshly treated that "other culture" heresy. Also, there were Inquisitions in all Spanish colonies, most where there was little if any Muslim influence. And there were Inquisitions outside of Spain or its dominions.

An indepth examination of every conceivable facet of the inquisitions, was not the intent behind my comments, they were only to provide a bit of context.

All cultures have had warfare. But few indulged in genocide, or at least succeeded at it so well.

As well as whom? The Hebrews? The Persians? The Assyrians? The Turks? The Romans? Christians? National Socialists? Marxists? Muslims?

Unfortunately genocide as well as slavery & enslavement are constant constants, throughout all of human history, sadly these terrible things seem to be part of human nature, it is impossible for anyone to single out any one particular group for historical wrong doings, since every single one of them has been guilty of the exact same thing at some point in their histories.

As far as conflicts with white folks, imagine how you'd react when your turf was invaded and your livelihood diminished or destroyed. And of course, you didn't respond regarding the virtual annihilation of Maya, Inca, Aztec (and other meso/south American) peoples, for the most part jointly bankrolled by the Vatican.

Meh, the Maya, Inca, Aztec's, etc are all guilty of the exact same crimes against smaller, weaker, less advanced tribes, why hold "white people" to a higher moral standard, when that is simply how the world at the time worked?


Those are much more cogent views I think -- and I'm not trying to make a case for anything, just pointing out the similar progression of both Christianity and Islam over their respective first 1600 years or so in particular.

I don't see the similarities, Christianity has never had a "convert or die" aspect to it, it spread through peaceful, voluntary conversions, and not through conquest & forced conversion
s like Islam.

The snuffing of Native American culture I won't lay directly on Christianity per se as neither Catholic nor Protestant institutions bankrolled it, only that it was predominately folks who claimed to be Christian who both committed and allowed it -- the same type who sanctioned slavery and later the denial of equal rights all the way through the 1960's, and to some extent even today.

Hundreds of thousands of Christians also fought & died to free the slaves, supported equality for everyone, tried to live peacefully with & to help the native peoples, etc, or do those "good Christians" not get any credit in this equasion?

Proving only that religious piety doesn't necessarily result in equally ethical practice, individually or collectively.

[b]On this we can completely agree, there are never any guarantees of anything, but this is especially true when dealing with our fellow human beings.

- OS

Interesting conversation but I'm getting opposite-sex married in about an hour so I've got to go get dressed, wish me luck!

[RichardR]

Crap I screwed up the bold partitians, sorry about that, don't have time to correct it right now, I really gotta run!

[Oh Shoot]

Crap I screwed up the bold partitians, sorry about that, don't have time to correct it right now, I really gotta run!

 

Well, probably too wide ranging subjects for a discussion format like this anyway, especially with the volume of quoting/response (or attempted such :)).

 

- OS

[Hershmeister]

Mazel Tov!

[Guest copperhead_1911]

 

I try my best to be tolerant of all religions however i can not find the place to accept a religion whose guiding moral figure while at the age of 53 has sex with a 9 year old girl

amen to that. Just the fact Obama likes them is enough to make me not. Those Obama likes must be enemies of the patriot. 

[Guest copperhead_1911]

Joke time:

 

Three strangers awaiting their flights strike up a conversation in the airport passenger lounge in Bozeman, Montana.  One is an American Indian passing through from Lame Deer.  Another is a Cowboy on his way to Billings for a livestock show.  And the third is a fundamentalist Arab student, newly arrived at Montana State University from the Middle East who is headed to a training conference in Detroit.

Their discussion drifts to their diverse cultures.  Soon, the two Westerners learn that the Arab is a devout, radical Muslim who supports Osama Bin Laden's Jihad, so the conversation falls into an uneasy lull. The cowboy leans back in his chair, crosses his boots on a magazine table and tips his big sweat-stained hat forward over his face.  The wind outside is  blowing tumbleweeds around, and the old windsock is flapping; but  still . . . no plane comes.

Finally, ! the American Indian clears his throat and softly, he speaks,  "At one time here, my people were many, but sadly, now we are few."

The Muslim student raises an eyebrow and leans forward, "Once my  people were few," he sneers, "and now we are many.  Why do you suppose that is?"

The Montana cowboy shifts his toothpick to one side of his mouth and from the darkness beneath his Stetson says in a drawl, "That's 'cause we ain't played Cowboys and Muslims yet, . . . but I do believe it's a-comin'."

 

 

Can also be cowboys and illegals, cowboys and liberals

[Guest copperhead_1911]

Don't have to take up arms to defend ones religion.  But one has to be willing to say no and go to jail to defend their faith.  Haven't seen too many so called Christians take on judges and court rulings that minimize their faith and go to jail lately.  Not wanting to start a religious thread fight, just saying that at least a Muslim will do what they think needs to be done to defend their religion,  one may hate their tactics but at least they stand up for their faith. 

 

Personally I think that Islam is the direct opposite of Christianity and abhor it.  Just saying that Christians worldwide need to 'man up' before the tide hits.

The same can be said about the white race. Blacks, latinos and so forth stick together ( look at voting) patterns yet whites are the most divided race there is. Liberals need just enough self hating white people for People like Obama to be in power. 

 

Most minorities sadly dont see that the liberal whites are often in power and basically view them as a lap dog. 

[Guest copperhead_1911]

Yes all religions did something wrong, but I cant think of anything in the last 10 years in THE USA Christians did similar to muslims on 9/11

 

I rest my case. 

[RichardR]

Interesting conversation but I'm getting opposite-sex married in about an hour so I've got to go get dressed, wish me luck!

Wow not a single congrats? or a good luck to ya man?

[Hershmeister]

Interesting conversation but I'm getting opposite-sex married in about an hour so I've got to go get dressed, wish me luck!

Wow not a single congrats? or a good luck to ya man?

You got a Mazel Tov out of me

[RichardR]

You got a Mazel Tov out of me

Sorry Hersh I must had overlooked that the first time I checked, thanks for that!