If Zimmerman had a flashlight, would the outcome be different?

[jgradyc]

Zimmerman was apparently quoted at one time as saying, "I had a flashlight, but it was dead."

I'm just asking, but don't you think that having a working, tactical flashlight might have made a difference here?

 

Apparently, there were no lights in that center "dog walk" behind the townhouses and it was very dark. A decent LED Li Ion powered flashlight could have lit up the entire area. It would have been harder for someone to sneak up on you.

 

Plus, it could have blinded a potential attacker. My wife has inadvertently pointed her LED light at me while walking the dog for only a second from less than 20 feet away and I saw spots before my eyes.

 

It would be much harder for someone to jump you if you had a bright flashlight. It's also likely that a brilliant light in the eyes would have dissuaded Martin from attacking (if in fact that is what happened).

 

I always carry a small keychain light, but I'm thinking I'll start carrying a small tactical light when I'm out at night.

Edited July 10, 2013 by jgradyc

[Guest nra37922]

Probably, maybe, could have, would have but the what ifs are almost endless.

[Jonnin]

the old what-if game?   Who knows?  A bright light is not going to stop some attackers.  Others, it may.  That is assuming you can point it at the person in time --- from his account, Gz was blindsided and pounded without much chance to fight back.   I know from experience how fast you can take someone down to the ground and whale on em... (I used to be a bit, erm, rowdy in highschool).   If you had it out and ready... maybe.     Or maybe TM would have a busted skull and GZ would have a busted light.  Lots of ways such could go down,  but it boils down to 1) Tm gets blinded and runs away or 2) they pound on each other and one of em beats the stew out of the other. 

[midtennchip]

I think they talked about this type of situation (not this case specifically, though) on The Outdoor Channel's Best Defense show not long ago.  The manner in which the light would have been used would be important, but yes, I can see how a working light (used by Zimmerman to scan the area) could have at least avoided getting blindsided.  Obviously, what happens after that is just a guess.  I am thinking Zimmerman would not have just left the area (like someone would who was trying to avoid a thief, rapist, etc. in the typical self-defense situation).  The whole reason Zimmerman was in this position (i.e., the community watch issue) appears to change the dynamics of this particular situation.  Who knows what Zimmerman or Martin would have done differently.

[Erik88]

He actually had 2 flashlights, I believe both faild on him.

 

The key here is getting a GOOD light, not some POS from the dollar tree, and keeping fresh batteries.

 

Either way, it's impossible to know if it would have made a difference.

[DaveS]

If the flashlight they showed in court was in fact Zman's, it was big enough to use as a weapon. Why did he not use it?

[jgradyc]

Z had a flashlight, but the batteries were dead.

 

My point was threefold.

 

1. Z was stupid to follow/look for TM in a dark area with no lights. It's too easy to get jumped. He should have stayed in the light on the street. Not saying that following was illegal... just tactically stupid. I wouldn't do it.

 

2. TM would have been less likely to try to sneak up on someone with a bright flashlight.  It's harder to do.

 

3. If, big if here, if GZ's story of hearing TM say you got a problem with me is true, bringing the light to TM's eyes would have blinded him temporarily and probably stopped the attack. No one is going to try to sucker punch someone else if they can't see them.

 

Anyway, the takeaway for me is own and carry a bright LED flashlight that is NOT going to be dead when you need it and think about the flashlight as a tactical device to gain the upper hand or gain a few seconds of time so you can either run or prepare to defend yourself.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If the flashlight they showed in court was in fact Zman's, it was big enough to use as a weapon. Why did he not use it?

How could he have used it if attacked from behind? If he had it in his hands when attacked, it probably fell

the moment he was attacked. I'm only being consistent with Zimmerman's story. I doubt it would matter.

 

But second guessing the outcome with this as a variable doesn't make any difference.

 

People tend to come up with "what ifs" as if to make a secondary judgement when it only skews what could

 have happened with what did happen. We usually second guess ourselves enough when we may have been

outside our own comfort zones. It would be impossible to do that in this case. Too many variables.

[Mike.357]

if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

[Sam1]

What if he had pepper spray, some rope and was an experienced pro rodeo roper?

Or what if he was working for publisher's clearing house and had a huge check to give away?

Point is, you'll never have all the right tools all the time and we've had a year to second guess an incident that GZ had seconds to analyze. It's silly to play the wha-if game with any situation like this.

[Patton]

"What ifs" will drive you insane. Who's to say that Zimmerman would even be alive today if he had a working flashlight. He may have been hitting Martin with it and Martin may have grabbed Zimmermans gun.

[Jonnin]

Z had a flashlight, but the batteries were dead.

 

My point was threefold.

 

1. Z was stupid to follow/look for TM in a dark area with no lights. It's too easy to get jumped. He should have stayed in the light on the street. Not saying that following was illegal... just tactically stupid. I wouldn't do it.

 

2. TM would have been less likely to try to sneak up on someone with a bright flashlight.  It's harder to do.

 

3. If, big if here, if GZ's story of hearing TM say you got a problem with me is true, bringing the light to TM's eyes would have blinded him temporarily and probably stopped the attack. No one is going to try to sucker punch someone else if they can't see them.

 

Anyway, the takeaway for me is own and carry a bright LED flashlight that is NOT going to be dead when you need it and think about the flashlight as a tactical device to gain the upper hand or gain a few seconds of time so you can either run or prepare to defend yourself.

 

2) I disagree.  MOST untrained people with a light will be focused on the beam and drop their awareness of the 270 degree arc not covered in the beam.  I would bet I could ambush MOST people with a light EASIER than I could someone who had allowed their eyes to adjust to the dark and were listening as well as looking.  On TOP of that, if the untrained person with a light is up against someone armed, they have compromised their position entirely.

[DaveS]

How could he have used it if attacked from behind? If he had it in his hands when attacked, it probably fell

the moment he was attacked. I'm only being consistent with Zimmerman's story. I doubt it would matter.

 

But second guessing the outcome with this as a variable doesn't make any difference.

 

People tend to come up with "what ifs" as if to make a secondary judgement when it only skews what could

 have happened with what did happen. We usually second guess ourselves enough when we may have been

outside our own comfort zones. It would be impossible to do that in this case. Too many variables.

 

How could he have used it if attacked from behind? If he had it in his hands when attacked, it probably fell

the moment he was attacked. I'm only being consistent with Zimmerman's story. I doubt it would matter.

 

But second guessing the outcome with this as a variable doesn't make any difference.

 

People tend to come up with "what ifs" as if to make a secondary judgement when it only skews what could

 have happened with what did happen. We usually second guess ourselves enough when we may have been

outside our own comfort zones. It would be impossible to do that in this case. Too many variables.

 

 

How could he have used it if attacked from behind?

Zman got punched in the face while looking at TM. Did he not? How was that from behind?