CCW at Church

[Guest 270win]

If a part of organized armed security for a church or a business would one have to go through the armed guard hoops and be bonded? I know the handgun carry permit is not good for working armed for hire, but what about volunteering? I am not talking about Joe who carries his handgun to church, but someone who wants to be a part of an organized security team.

[Guest cdsusong]

Not sure but the pastor did ask if I were bonded. I believe the local sheriff can issue the bond for a good reason like this. I guess we will know more after the lawyers get involved.

[PackinMama]

This is what Charlie Daniels has to say about Guns, Church, and Obama. Some of you might have seen this already, but I just ran across it today:

Since I identify with the people who fall into Barrack Obama's elitist description about of people of faith who keep firearms I'm not very happy with Barrack Obama's recent remarks.

He said something to the effect that us rednecks cling to our guns and our religion when we get frustrated and I would like to take umbrage to these remarks. My faith goes much deeper than his superficial explanation and I love my guns even when I'm not frustrated.

And I am not by myself. I was going to church and shooting guns before Mr. Obama was even born and come from a long line of good people who have been doing it for generations.

To me this latest Obama blunder only helps reveal the depth of condescension the far left wing of the Democrat party has for the folks out here in flyover country.

Mr. Obama's remarks are insulting to a lot of folks. It's kind of like Abraham Lincoln said, "God must love the common people because he made so many of them".

His remarks make me think that Obama doesn't know the people of this country very well. I'm sure he knows the jet set and the Hollywood bunch, the limousine liberals and the save the whales, kill the babies crowd, but does he think that the ordinary people don't count? Does he think that they're so stupid that they don't know who he's talking about when he says these things? Does he think their opinions aren't important? Apparently.

How can a man stand in front of America and tell people what he wants to do for them and have so little respect for a whole segment of the population. In fact, a very large segment. Does that mean that he would only represent the high-minded liberal ideals of the far left and ignore the rest of us?

What kind of Commander and Chief would he make if he doesn't respect the very people who make up the lion's share of the armed forces.

You may say I'm over reacting, but I'm getting sick and tired of him making these elitist statements and saying that he had been taken out of context or some other flimsy excuse.

After his wife's remark about not being proud of this country and his pastor's statements calling America the U.S.K.K.K.A. and his own statement about not wanting his daughter punished with a baby, it makes me wonder what kind of a man Obama really is and what kind of a president he'd make.

Would he be an antigun advocate pushing the effort to take the firearms out of innocent citizen's hands? Would he not respect the religious beliefs of America, not taking them into account in his agenda?

I really don't know much about the man and neither does America. He basically came from out of nowhere and as the facts come out little by little, they don't make a particularly confident picture.

I have a great fear that if our military gets broken by another president, this time we're not going to have time to fix it again and what that spells for America, I don't even want to contemplate.

Oh well, I guess I'll grab my gun and go to church.

Pray for our troops

What do you think?

God Bless America

Charlie Daniels

April 14, 2008

http://www.charliedaniels.com/soapbox-2008-041408.htm

[rd97]

Extremely well said! I believe in the "don't ask don't tell" basis of carrying even in church.

[dwcz]

One concern I have is this:

Say something bad does happen - a bad guy opens fire in a church, a good guy with a ccw draws his weapon and shoots the bad guy.

In the confusion of people running for cover and freaking out, people know someone is shooting and then all that law enforcement or other armed citizens see is someone standing there with a smoking gun.

Wouldn't it be hard to tell the good guy who shot the bad guy from the dead bad guy?

[PackinMama]

Well, when you decide to draw and fire your weapon to protect yourself/other's lives you need to be aware of everything that could happen. If you're not prepared to take the heat, then don't draw your weapon and run like he**.....and just hope you or your family doesn't get shot in the process......and then live with knowing that you might have been able to save live(s)

Personally, if I were in a situation where I had to draw/fire my weapon in a crowd of people, as soon as the threat was stopped, I would lay my weapon down, step back, and put my hands where the police or other armed citizens could see them. If I was able (after hopefully taking the BG by surprise) I would verbally try to let people know that I had a HCP and that I was not the BG.

Edited September 11, 2008 by PackinMama

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

The bad guy is the one continually shooting innocent people. The good guy is the one who shoots one bad guy.

[dwcz]

Well, when you decide to draw and fire your weapon to protect yourself/other's lives you need to be aware of everything that could happen. If you're not prepared to take the heat, then don't draw your weapon and run like he**.....and just hope you or your family doesn't get shot in the process......and then live with knowing that you might have been able to save live(s)

Personally, if I were in a situation where I had to draw/fire my weapon in a crowd of people, as soon as the threat was stopped, I would lay my weapon down, step back, and put my hands where the police or other armed citizens could see them. If I was able (after hopefully taking the BG by surprise) I would verbally try to let people know that I had a HCP and that I was not the BG.

I'm in agreement with you - I'm just getting used to carrying and probably over thinking the "what if's"...

Thanks for your insights.

[PackinMama]

No problem, Dwcz. Welcome to the board and congrats on getting your HCP

[Guest sermon8r]

Well, when you decide to draw and fire your weapon to protect yourself/other's lives you need to be aware of everything that could happen. If you're not prepared to take the heat, then don't draw your weapon and run like he**.....and just hope you or your family doesn't get shot in the process......and then live with knowing that you might have been able to save live(s)

Personally, if I were in a situation where I had to draw/fire my weapon in a crowd of people, as soon as the threat was stopped, I would lay my weapon down, step back, and put my hands where the police or other armed citizens could see them. If I was able (after hopefully taking the BG by surprise) I would verbally try to let people know that I had a HCP and that I was not the BG.

I wouldnt put the weapon down untill the Police arrived and would comply with every order....

[PackinMama]

I wouldnt put the weapon down untill the Police arrived and would comply with every order....

Could you give me your reasoning on this? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just curious as to why you would hold onto your weapon until the police came. I've personally seen some nervous/scared trigger happy cops and I'd hate for one to walk into a shooting scene with me standing there holding a gun........

Btw, I would never lay my weapon down until I was positive that the threat was stopped.

[Guest db99wj]

I would re holster my weapon once the threat was in fact eliminated. I wouldn't want my weapon to be unsecured on the ground, in case someone else tried to grab it and not know the situation clearly, and I wouldn't want the police to bust in with me and a gun in my hand. If the BG was still alive and I had my gun on him to make sure he did nothing else, then I would be very careful with my movements when the police came in, I would be direct that I am NOT the bad guy, I am a permit holder, whatever I could say and comply with all commands by the LEO.

Also before the LEO got to the scene, I would be telling someone or calling myself to let the police know that I am a permit holder, I eliminated the threat, I am armed, what I am wearing, what I look like. I would try if all possible to be on the phone with 911 when they show up.

Of course this is a scenario that I run through my head, and when the SDoesHTH you will need to do what you got to do and adjust your plan accordingly.

[towerclimber37]

One concern I have is this:

Say something bad does happen - a bad guy opens fire in a church, a good guy with a ccw draws his weapon and shoots the bad guy.

In the confusion of people running for cover and freaking out, people know someone is shooting and then all that law enforcement or other armed citizens see is someone standing there with a smoking gun.

Wouldn't it be hard to tell the good guy who shot the bad guy from the dead bad guy?

hahahah an easy question..

yep..the (hopefully) dead bad guy is ...well dead! the live good guy is not shooting the rest of the general populace.

[Guest readyornot]

I attend a rather large church in Knoxville (2500+ average Sunday attendance). I am a member of my church's security team. I carry at church every Sunday except the times I'm serving on the security team. It is a liability issue and the church mandates that we not carry in that role even with a HCP. Our team each Sunday consists of 6 plain clothes individuals wearing blue and yellow traffic type vests (congregation members who volunteer their time) and 1-2 uniformed, armed off-duty sheriff's deputies. We all carry radios and basically act as a presence. The role is actually referred to as campus shepards and we are there to answer questions, point people in the right direction, etc. However, the underlying purpose is to be eyes and ears around the campus for the uniformed officers.

[my82cam]

Yes, I carry in Church. But it is well concealed and only my wife, I and GOD know I am carrying.

i carry a G27 on my ankle while in church...not even my wife knows i carry it! she gets mad at me and says " why dont you just leave that at home!" i tell her if she can tell me when and where i will need it, i will only carry it than....she has stopped telling me to leave it at home but she would not approve of it at church. i do feel a sense of security by carrying it and know that there are others in the church that want at least one of us to carry in church. i think the dont ask, dont tell is the best way. unless you can afford private security.

[Guest cdsusong]

has anyone seen a Bible caddy that has a pocket in t for a carry weapon? If not this may be something to look into! Maybe a zippered pocket on your Bible cover and presto problem solved.

[Guest db99wj]

has anyone seen a Bible caddy that has a pocket in t for a carry weapon? If not this may be something to look into! Maybe a zippered pocket on your Bible cover and presto problem solved.

I'm not a fan of off body carry. So I would carry like I always do, IWB CTAC with tucked in shirt. Little longer draw, but is pretty quikc with practice..Not that I would carry in my Church because of the laws state I can not...

[Oh Shoot]

I'm not a fan of off body carry. So I would carry like I always do, IWB CTAC with tucked in shirt. Little longer draw, but is pretty quikc with practice..Not that I would carry in my Church because of the laws state I can not...

You mean church laws?

What church?

Or maybe Mississippi laws or something?

- OS

[Guest db99wj]

You mean church laws?

What church?

Or maybe Mississippi laws or something?

- OS

My Church also has a private school....sorry didn't make that clear...

[Guest Rugerman]

When I was pastoring, I always had a Beretta Tomcat Inox in my pocket. So yeah, I was carrying and never discouraged other permit holders to do so.

[Guest sermon8r]

I would re holster my weapon once the threat was in fact eliminated. I wouldn't want my weapon to be unsecured on the ground, in case someone else tried to grab it and not know the situation clearly, and I wouldn't want the police to bust in with me and a gun in my hand. If the BG was still alive and I had my gun on him to make sure he did nothing else, then I would be very careful with my movements when the police came in, I would be direct that I am NOT the bad guy, I am a permit holder, whatever I could say and comply with all commands by the LEO.

Also before the LEO got to the scene, I would be telling someone or calling myself to let the police know that I am a permit holder, I eliminated the threat, I am armed, what I am wearing, what I look like. I would try if all possible to be on the phone with 911 when they show up.

Of course this is a scenario that I run through my head, and when the SDoesHTH you will need to do what you got to do and adjust your plan accordingly.

+1

[PackinMama]

I would re holster my weapon once the threat was in fact eliminated. I wouldn't want my weapon to be unsecured on the ground, in case someone else tried to grab it and not know the situation clearly, and I wouldn't want the police to bust in with me and a gun in my hand. If the BG was still alive and I had my gun on him to make sure he did nothing else, then I would be very careful with my movements when the police came in, I would be direct that I am NOT the bad guy, I am a permit holder, whatever I could say and comply with all commands by the LEO.

Also before the LEO got to the scene, I would be telling someone or calling myself to let the police know that I am a permit holder, I eliminated the threat, I am armed, what I am wearing, what I look like. I would try if all possible to be on the phone with 911 when they show up.

Of course this is a scenario that I run through my head, and when the SDoesHTH you will need to do what you got to do and adjust your plan accordingly.

Good advice. I hadn't thought about having to hold my gun on the BG if he was still alive.....and since this is a public forum, I won't say why

[Guest quickdraw mcgraw]

I will carry mine to church and anywhere that is not prohibited. Although I have not been to church in a few months, I will let my pastor know ,but that's it.