Are You Paranoid?

[Punisher84]

Kinda like the end of Escape from LA.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Old school carbuerated autos would be king thats for sure. Lol I thought you were talking about a Pot bombardment also ;-D I was like yeah then we'd all sit around and say F*ck It if we were invaded. What exactly will block an EMP? Lead walls, concrete, etc?

[Guest Mugster]

Armadillo helmet. I hand lace em with copper wire and tin foil. Full money back if you are hit by an EMP and it doesn't work.

Its guarenteed waterproof too.

[G27]

Old school carbuerated autos would be king thats for sure.

Only if they were pre-electronic ignition and pre-electronic fuel-pump. And even then, you'd probably find you'd need some parts to get it running.

A diesel is about the only transportation that's EMP proof (assuming mechanical fuel pump and a replacement (or old) glow plug controller).

What exactly will block an EMP? Lead walls, concrete, etc?

A Faraday cage is the easiest, though you must mind your P's and Q's when building one. Not simple to protect an automobile, but some backup electronics insulated in a closed ammo can (or a garbage can) would be fine.

Granted, the chances of something like this happening are very, very, very, very remote. It's just an exercise to show how easily we could fall off the edge, so to speak...

[NuTcAsE]

Haha, no - HEMP is the acronym for "High Altitude Electro Magnetic Pulse".

But, can you smoke it??

[strickj]

Definitely need a Chevy 350 if your paranoid!

Not simple to protect an automobile, but some backup electronics insulated in a closed ammo can (or a garbage can) would be fine.

So what our saying is that the metal from the ammo can would protect my cell phone?

If thats the case then wouldn't the metal on my car protect the electronics in it?

[Guest bkelm18]

Definitely need a Chevy 350 if your paranoid!

So what our saying is that the metal from the ammo can would protect my cell phone?

If thats the case then wouldn't the metal on my car protect the electronics in it?

I think he meant build the Faraday cage around the ammo box with whatever inside.

[Magiccarpetrides]

what the heck is a faraday cage?

[Guest bkelm18]

It's basically a wire mesh that cancels out the effects of any electromagnetic interference.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Not to mention the possibility that the GPS system could be knocked out or disabled in some capacity in an attack. In fact, if we were to be attacked by a reasonably advanced country, I suspect the GPS system would be one of the first things they'd go after since a lot of our hardware relies on it. Not saying it'll happen, its just my line of thinking. I'd still have a receiver with me regardless.

An Earth-bound event would have a tough time disabling the GPS system. EMP could very well fry GPS receivers here, but AFAIK, there's no known weapon system capable of destroying satellites orbiting at an altitude of 13,000 miles.

Now, it's worth noting that the GPS satellites receive periodic "corrections" from control stations here on the planet, so if by some chance every onw of those were wiped out, then the system's accuracy would grdually degrade over time.

[Guest bkelm18]

An Earth-bound event would have a tough time disabling the GPS system. EMP could very well fry GPS receivers here, but AFAIK, there's no known weapon system capable of destroying satellites orbiting at an altitude of 13,000 miles.

Now, it's worth noting that the GPS satellites receive periodic "corrections" from control stations here on the planet, so if by some chance every onw of those were wiped out, then the system's accuracy would grdually degrade over time.

I'm sure at some point some pretty smart people sitting in a dark room somewhere in the world talked about how to take it out. I'm sure there's a way.

[G27]

So what our saying is that the metal from the ammo can would protect my cell phone?

If thats the case then wouldn't the metal on my car protect the electronics in it?

Because the wavelengths from the EMP can fit underneath your car / through the windows / in other gaps. Not to mention that the car's body isn't isolated from the ground. A Faraday cage is any metal 'cage' (can be solid metal) that insulates the items inside from the magnetic field generated by the EMP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Talking about it and actually doing it are two very different things. Consider the big deal that was made about China shooting down a satellite last year at the meager altitude of 500 miles.

I'm not saying it's not possible to shoot down a satellite at the altitude of a GPS vehicle, I'm just saying that it would be an extremely costly endeavor, especially since you'd need to knock down probably ten or so vehicles before the system would be adversely affected. And I'm willing to bet that with current technology, there'd be a non-trivial failure rate for any weapon used against those satellites. So in the end you might be talking about as many as 15-20 launches of a very expensive vehicle.

I just don't think that it's particularly plausible myself.

[strickj]

I know what it is although I'm clueless to how they work!

I do want to remember that Myth Busters or somebody busted the whole emp thing

[G27]

Talking about it and actually doing it are two very different things. Consider the big deal that was made about China shooting down a satellite last year at the meager altitude of 500 miles.

I'm not saying it's not possible to shoot down a satellite at the altitude of a GPS vehicle, I'm just saying that it would be an extremely costly endeavor, especially since you'd need to knock down probably ten or so vehicles before the system would be adversely affected. And I'm willing to bet that with current technology, there'd be a non-trivial failure rate for any weapon used against those satellites. So in the end you might be talking about as many as 15-20 launches of a very expensive vehicle.

I just don't think that it's particularly plausible myself.

Indeed, disabling satellites is a huge undertaking - one that few, if any, of our enemies could actually do.

That being said, an EMP strike would render GOS receivers useless unless they were protected or were at the far reaches of the pulse.

[G27]

I know what it is although I'm clueless to how they work!

I do want to remember that Myth Busters or somebody busted the whole emp thing

Busted what part? That it disables cars or electronics or what?

Both have been proved extensively. The only variables is pulse intensity and the angle that the car is primarily hit from. Some modern autos might survive but:

[ame]

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[Guest bkelm18]

Talking about it and actually doing it are two very different things. Consider the big deal that was made about China shooting down a satellite last year at the meager altitude of 500 miles.

I'm not saying it's not possible to shoot down a satellite at the altitude of a GPS vehicle, I'm just saying that it would be an extremely costly endeavor, especially since you'd need to knock down probably ten or so vehicles before the system would be adversely affected. And I'm willing to bet that with current technology, there'd be a non-trivial failure rate for any weapon used against those satellites. So in the end you might be talking about as many as 15-20 launches of a very expensive vehicle.

I just don't think that it's particularly plausible myself.

You don't have to shoot them down. It could be part of a cyber attack, which is a possibility in this day and age. I'm sure there's gotta be a way if someone had the means and motivation that the system could be shut down or degraded without firing a shot. The government can do it, why couldn't someone else?

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

You don't have to shoot them down. It could be part of a cyber attack, which is a possibility in this day and age. I'm sure there's gotta be a way if someone had the means and motivation that the system could be shut down or degraded without firing a shot. The government can do it, why couldn't someone else?

That's actually a good point. I mentioned before the ground stations that periodically send the vehicles updates to correct their position- I suppose that if one could crack that system, you could give the vehicles blatantly incorrect information, and probably render the entire system useless.

I don't really have the knowledge to make any kind of informed commentary on how feasible that would be.

Better yet, I wonder if there's been research into some kind of jamming device that could just send bad information to nav units?

It is notable, however, that neither of these possibilities really represent a serious blow to the GPS system, but rather a relatively short-term disruption. Jamming systems can be disabled, and bad satellite calibrations can be overwritten once the security breach is found and fixed.

Looking back, however, I note that you never specified abject destruction of the GPS system, just a disabling act. So maybe I really took an assumption and ran with it here.

[Oh Shoot]

Armadillo helmet. I hand lace em with copper wire and tin foil. Full money back if you are hit by an EMP and it doesn't work.

Its guarenteed waterproof too.

Now THAT'S a hoot!

- OS

[Mike.357]

I saw the Mythbusters episode about EMP's. I do remember that the car died from it, but some of the elctronics still worked. It did not totally fry the car.

If we are hit with an EMP I think our TV's and cars working is the least of the trouble.

That and I do not put it past our own gov't to disable phones and GPS etc to control the mobs should SHTF

[dariks]

what the heck is a faraday cage?

Ever noticed the wire mesh in a microwave door before? That's one example of a faraday cage.

[Magiccarpetrides]

haha cool....well that shouldnt be too hard to duplicate...hell I will just put my GPS in the microwave ;-D

[G27]

haha cool....well that shouldnt be too hard to duplicate...hell I will just put my GPS in the microwave ;-D

That would work, as long as you didn't turn the microwave on!

hehe