Woman's bottled water leads to jail and 6 felony charges

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

Imagine this is your wife, or daughter...

 

Walking to her car with bottled water, cookie dough and ice cream just purchased from the Harris Teeter in the Barracks Road Shopping Center for a sorority benefit fundraiser.

A group of men rush her, and most likely hollering and screaming at her. Police say one of the men jumped on the hood of her car and another drew a gun.
"I couldn't put my windows down unless I started my car, and when I started my car they began yelling to not move the car, not to start the car. They began trying to break the windows. My roommates and I were ... terrified,"

Unsure of who they were, The woman tried to flee the darkened parking lot so in turn had to spend the night in jail. Which I guess is good because she could've ended up dead.

 

When is common sense going to return?

Agents charged Daly with two counts of assaulting a law enforcement officer and one count of eluding police, all Class 6 felonies carrying a maximum penalty of five years in prison and $2,500 in fines per offense.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state-regional/bottled-water-purchase-leads-to-night-in-jail-for-u/article_45498018-e019-11e2-b98a-001a4bcf6878.html

 

Edited June 29, 2013 by AmericanWorkMule

[Spots]

If that had been my wife or one of my sisters there is a very good possibility one ofnthose agents would be shot right now. All the stuff they put out there about plains clothes guys pretending to be cops for various reasons, and these idiots think its a good idea to run up on two females in a parking lot because they "might" be carrying beer. Why not just write down the tag nukber and havea uniformed officer do a traffic stop? This is going to end the same place as no knock warrants. With a lot of good cops dead over a bad decision to raid the wrong house or rush up on the wrong people who had done nothing wrong.

sent from the backwoods

[Romad7]

I may have missed it but what would the crime be for buying a 6 pack of beer from a store? Must be pretty serious for 6 cops to lose their minds over.

The real tragedy here is that her ice cream is probably all melted now;-)

[Spots]

I may have missed it but what would the crime be for buying a 6 pack of beer from a store? Must be pretty serious for 6 cops to lose their minds over.


The real tragedy here is that her ice cream is probably all melted now;-)

It said she was 20. Probably trying to bust underage college kids buying beer. You know, instead of worrying about a real crime.

sent from the backwoods

[Romad7]

It said she was 20. Probably trying to bust underage college kids buying beer. You know, instead of worrying about a real crime.

sent from the backwoods

Ah hah, well in that case where was the SWAT team?

 

I bet they had this conversation just before the "raid".

 

[URL=http://s751.photobucket.com/user/romad7/media/shotguns.jpg.html][/URL]

[Reservoir Dog]

It said she was 20. Probably trying to bust underage college kids buying beer. You know, instead of worrying about a real crime.
 

 

Well, here is a newsflash for you.........underage drinking is a crime ABC agents focus on in every state.  You are not going to see ABC agents investigating crimes like murder, rape, robbery, etc....  They are going to focus on alcohol related crime, that is their job.  Odds are that Harris Teeter store has a track record of selling alcohol to underage people, so the agents are merely focusing their efforts where the crime exists.  They are going after the buyers, but ultimately want to get the sellers.

 

That being said, and if the news story is accurate, the tactics they used are just plain dumb.  Swarming three young ladies in a store parking lot, at night, in plainclothes is just ridiculous.  At the very minimum, the agents who make the contact should be in some sort of uniform that makes them immediately recognizable a LEOs.  And here is another suggestion for these agents:  in the future, it might be prudent to have an agent in the store to verify that someone actually bought alcohol.....and not bottled water.  These guys were full of the stupid.  I can only hope that they will look at this, learn a lesson and change their tactics.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Reservoir Dog

[Patton]

Yes, terrible tactics but still underage alcohol consumption is a crime. Unfortunately things got out of hand, hopefully the DA sees this and stops it immediately. This store probably sent her out in brown bags just to see of she would be approached. I have seen it before. Very attractive, young looking girl, carrying the signature brown bag normally used only for alcohol.

[Guest Emtdaddy1980]

What REALLY bothers me is how the people in charge excuse this poor decision making on the part of their agents. If you read the article the charges were dropped, but the young ladies still spent a night and a day in jail. THATS FALSE IMPRISONMENT UNDER COLOR OF LAW. The officers involved should be suspended without pay, not the standard paid vacation that LEO are normally handed by their union Rep when they do something stupid. And these young ladies deserve a public apology.

[Patton]

What REALLY bothers me is how the people in charge excuse this poor decision making on the part of their agents. If you read the article the charges were dropped, but the young ladies still spent a night and a day in jail. THATS FALSE IMPRISONMENT UNDER COLOR OF LAW. The officers involved should be suspended without pay, not the standard paid vacation that LEO are normally handed by their union Rep when they do something stupid. And these young ladies deserve a public apology.

Apology is definetly in order. However, for a color of law violation the officers would have to have fabricated the incident or such. This appears to have been a lawful detention or every reason to believe that it was. Should a repremandation or a termination occur? Maybe, but it will never happen. A civil lawsuit is very likely though. Edited June 29, 2013 by Patton

[Reservoir Dog]

 THATS FALSE IMPRISONMENT UNDER COLOR OF LAW.

 

With all due respect, this case does not even come close to a violation of civil rights under color of law.  To have a 1983 violation, these agents would have to had knowingly and willfully violated someone's rights.  That does not appear to be the case here.  These agents believed they had a crime, and they attempted to investigate that crime.  Nothing wrong there.  It was their tactics that were seriously flawed, and that led to this situation getting seriously out of hand.

[RichardR]

A paper grocery sack isn't "suspicious" nor is entering/exiting a retail establishment that sells alcohol beverages amongst it's groceries items.

The agents had zero RS, let alone PC to reasonably believe that a crime had been comitted by those girls &/or the clerk at the store.

Bottled water, cookie dough & icecream = a couple of innocent college girls getting bum-rushed in the parking lot by plain clothes officers with brandished weapons?

No-one should be "ok" with that.

[Spots]

It said she was 20. Probably trying to bust underage college kids buying beer. You know, instead of worrying about a real crime.

Well, here is a newsflash for you.........underage drinking is a crime ABC agents focus on in every state. You are not going to see ABC agents investigating crimes like murder, rape, robbery, etc.... They are going to focus on alcohol related crime, that is their job. Odds are that Harris Teeter store has a track record of selling alcohol to underage people, so the agents are merely focusing their efforts where the crime exists. They are going after the buyers, but ultimately want to get the sellers.

That being said, and if the news story is accurate, the tactics they used are just plain dumb. Swarming three young ladies in a store parking lot, at night, in plainclothes is just ridiculous. At the very minimum, the agents who make the contact should be in some sort of uniform that makes them immediately recognizable a LEOs. And here is another suggestion for these agents: in the future, it might be prudent to have an agent in the store to verify that someone actually bought alcohol.....and not bottled water. These guys were full of the stupid. I can only hope that they will look at this, learn a lesson and change their tactics.

Sorry sore subject. Kinda like NFA laws. I can join tbe military at 18 (17 with parental consent) and go fight and possibly die for my country but I can't drink a beer. Like I said, maybe we could focus all this time and money on real crime instead of having another useless agency like the ATF.

sent from the backwoods

[Spiffy]

Sorry sore subject. Kinda like NFA laws. I can join tbe military at 18 (17 with parental consent) and go fight and possibly die for my country but I can't drink a beer. Like I said, maybe we could focus all this time and money on real crime instead of having another useless agency like the ATF.

sent from the backwoods

 

You can drink all the beer you want at 17/18 with military ID.

[hkusp40cal]

Someone somewhere must have changed a law.  Even in the enlisted club you are carded and must be 21 to purchase alcohol.

[Spots]

Sorry sore subject. Kinda like NFA laws. I can join tbe military at 18 (17 with parental consent) and go fight and possibly die for my country but I can't drink a beer. Like I said, maybe we could focus all this time and money on real crime instead of having another useless agency like the ATF.


sent from the backwoods

You can drink all the beer you want at 17/18 with military ID.

Yeah and when your command catches you you will go to Non Judicial Punishment and lose one rank, half a months pay for 2 months and 3 months of restriction. It is NOT legal to drink under the age of 21 even if military and the military will happily fry your ass for it. I had plenty of friends who learned that the hard way.

I just got off Active Duty from the Marines last year. The only area where you can drink under 21 was at the Marine Corps ball, and that was at CO's discretion. Also when I was stationed in Okinawa the drinking age for military was 20 yrs old to coincide with Okinawan law. That had only went into effect 6 months before I got there.
sent from the backwoods
Edited June 29, 2013 by Spots

[Luke E.]

 Rush me in the dark in plain clothes and try to bust my truck window to get in and it will likely end in a poor manner for you. These tactics are reserved for thugs and other criminals and they sound like nothing more than that, THUGS!

 I bartended for a good many years in downtown Nashville and most every ABC agent that i had contact with constantly tried to prove to you exactly how much power they had. I have experienced first hand how edgy ABC agents can get at the least thing and when you refer to them as an "officer" they are very quick to let you know that they are an "agent". That right there should tell you that they are out to show just how big their *%#@ is.

 I'll jump off the soap box but this is insane that they will keep their jobs and live to harass again.

[Guest Emtdaddy1980]

With all due respect, this case does not even come close to a violation of civil rights under color of law. To have a 1983 violation, these agents would have to had knowingly and willfully violated someone's rights. That does not appear to be the case here. These agents believed they had a crime, and they attempted to investigate that crime. Nothing wrong there. It was their tactics that were seriously flawed, and that led to this situation getting seriously out of hand.

I don't see how this can be called a legitimate detention as there is NO PC for a stop. They saw what looked like beer so they swooped in like Elliot Ness with guns drawn and try to bust out a window? All because the person MIGHT not be 21? How is this any different than a LEO drawing down on one of us in a parking lot because our weapon printed and we MIGHT not be legal to carry?

These "agents" who were not readily identifiable as LE accosted these young women in a darkened parking lot in a way that would make any reasonable person believe that they were in danger and should protect themselves or flee, and then detained the young women and charged them with a crime BECAUSE THEY ATTEMPTED TO FLEE. That sure sounds like the "agents" manufactured the situation to me, and if they didn't KNOW that their actions were a violation of those girls civil rights then they are too stupid to be trusted with a gun show CC badge let alone one that means anything. I think any halfway competent lawyer could argue color of law on this one.

[vontar]

 

suspecting the blue carton of LaCroix sparkling water to be a 12-pack of beer.

 

 

They need a bit of proof first as well.  4th amendment anyone?  
They need a bit more probable cause before a search as well in my opinion.

 

Maybe they should know some of the other inventory the store as and perhaps even an undercover person inside confirming before they rush people. 

 

 

sure sounded a allot like an unreasonable search.

Edited June 30, 2013 by vontar

[Patton]

Rush me in the dark in plain clothes and try to bust my truck window to get in and it will likely end in a poor manner for you. These tactics are reserved for thugs and other criminals and they sound like nothing more than that, THUGS!
I bartended for a good many years in downtown Nashville and most every ABC agent that i had contact with constantly tried to prove to you exactly how much power they had. I have experienced first hand how edgy ABC agents can get at the least thing and when you refer to them as an "officer" they are very quick to let you know that they are an "agent". That right there should tell you that they are out to show just how big their *%#@ is.
I'll jump off the soap box but this is insane that they will keep their jobs and live to harass again.

Well these were not TN ABC Agents, but the TN ABC Agents I have met, and a lot of them at that, have all been top notch professional.

[npgunner]

4th amendment anyone?

You're so old fashioned. That went to the way side several months ago ... agents/officers can do as they please now a days. Welcome to the new America ... where the Constitution is just an artifact in the museum in DC.

[Luke E.]

Well these were not TN ABC Agents, but the TN ABC Agents I have met, and a lot of them at that, have all been top notch professional.

I guess it all depends on which side of a situation your on then. I thought about it some more after my post and I should say I do remember ONE that was very respectable. The rest were muscle flexers.

[Reservoir Dog]

I don't see how this can be called a legitimate detention as there is NO PC for a stop.

 

We know that....now.  But, the standard to apply is what did the officers know/suspect at the time of the incident.  It would be interesting to read their report to see why they thought the girls had purchased alcohol, but all we have is the news story, and it does not delve into the details of the officer's RAS/PC.  So, we are left in the dark on that.

 

These "agents" who were not readily identifiable as LE accosted these young women in a darkened parking lot in a way that would make any reasonable person believe that they were in danger and should protect themselves or flee, and then detained the young women and charged them with a crime BECAUSE THEY ATTEMPTED TO FLEE. That sure sounds like the "agents" manufactured the situation to me,.....

 

Well, the ladies did not attempt to flee, they did flee from the officers.  The agents were well within the law to charge and arrest them.  However, this is where I feel the officers messed up a second time.  After determining why the girls fled, it would have been a good time for judicious use of "officer discretion."  If the agents felt that the girls should have been charged, they should have gotten all their info, written up the report and submitted it to the DA to see if charges were warranted.  For whatever reason, they felt that arrest was necessary.  We are left in the dark on that reason, as well.

 

 I think any halfway competent lawyer could argue color of law on this one.

 

Highly doubtful.  I don't see any criminal activity on the part of the ABC agents.  They suspected a crime was committed, they went to investigate the crime, they verbally identified themselves as LEOs, and the suspects fled from the officers.  The only problem here is that the tactics used to investigate the crime were seriously flawed, and that led the situation to get out of hand.  Flawed tactics do not rise to the level of criminal activity, and not even close to a 1983 violation.  Incompetence?  Perhaps.  But not criminal activity.  This agency seriously needs to look at the way they conduct plainclothes operations to try and make sure something like this (or even worse) never happens again.

 

Will a civil suit be filed? Probably.  I am sure there are lawyers out the salivating at the opportunity.  I don't know how successful it would be, but all the parties would probably settle out of court, anyway.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Reservoir Dog

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

Well these were not TN ABC Agents, but the TN ABC Agents I have met, and a lot of them at that, have all been top notch professional.

 

Top Notch like these? Guess it depends on what side of the badge you are on...
Gestapo-like police tactics gone wild
– small business in Nashville raided by armed officers for an ‘inspection’

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/06/gestapo-like-police-tactics-gone-wild-small-business-in-nashville-raided-by-armed-officers-for-an-inspection/

[Luke E.]

Okay I think maybe we are skipping the part where approaching the young lady as she walked out of the store and stating your business should have been. If they had met her at the door under light in plain view and said 'mam, I'm with the ABC and I need to check your purchase and I.D.' and then the girl ran, that may have warranted a chase. She most likely (almost certainly) would have complied. Instead a gang of them wait in the shadows until the young lady is away from the store (like any good criminal would) and getting in her car to not walk to the car but rather charge toward them most likely yelling. And then to go on and jump on the car and beat the glass just goes further to show the abuse of power. They screwed up right from the rip and deserve to have the pants sued off of them. Of course the "fled the scene" I would have likely done the same thing if unsure of the situation if for no other reason than, it's a better option to run than to have to shoot people that may or may not be bad guys.

[Luke E.]

Top Notch like these? Guess it depends on what side of the badge you are on...
Gestapo-like police tactics gone wild
– small business in Nashville raided by armed officers for an ‘inspection’

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/06/gestapo-like-police-tactics-gone-wild-small-business-in-nashville-raided-by-armed-officers-for-an-inspection/

And the $1,000 in lost revenue was only for that night! That's not taking in to consideration the people that might not come back the following week or ever so in my opinion, the true total loss will never be known but I would venture to say it was at least a few times that amount.