New parking lot law takes effect Monday, July 1

[Sky King]

With July 1st comming this Monday, the new parking lot law takes effect.  I feel it is a VERY poorly written law that was ram rodded through.  However I feel compelled to remind everyone that this law does NOT protect your job.  So make sure you are up to speed on your employers policy before you take your firearm to work in your car this Monday.

 

With that said, if anybody is aware of any employers across the state that have actually made changes to their policy in regards to weapons storage in private vehicles, I would really like to hear from you.  Also as time moves on with this new law, we need to know of any disciplinary action taken against employees because of weapon storage in private vehicles.

 

Some of the members of the General Assembly who backed this bill would not believe that people would still get fired and we need to show them when that happens if we want to fix this law.

[RobertNashville]

Yuup...Jim Tracy is one of those who don't believe it; I had a fairly long telephone conversation with him on that specific point but he was secure in his incorrect position. ;)

 

If I understand this law correctly it does at least "open up" parking lost such as at Cool Springs in Franklin...an entire parking lot being "posted" has now became somewhat meaningless I believe; it's not going to change my shopping habits any as I don't shop where I know firearms aren't welcome whether the signs carry a legal penalty or not.

[Sky King]

Yuup...Jim Tracy is one of those who don't believe it; I had a fairly long telephone conversation with him on that specific point but he was secure in his incorrect position. ;)

 

If I understand this law correctly it does at least "open up" parking lost such as at Cool Springs in Franklin...an entire parking lot being "posted" has now became somewhat meaningless I believe; it's not going to change my shopping habits any as I don't shop where I know firearms aren't welcome whether the signs carry a legal penalty or not.

 

Wolfchase Galleria Mall in Memphis is also posted at all entrances to their parking lot so the same situation applies.  But while they do NOT properly or legally post at the entrances to the building, they have the prohibition listed in a list of mall rules on a sign about 10 or 15 feet AFTER you enter the mall.  So, I quit doing any business with any business in the mall that does not own their own property such as Sears or Penny's  with their own entrances so you don't have to enter the mall.

[runco]

Good reminder, thanks.

[Guest 270win]

I never noticed anything at Wolfchase.  That mall has gotten pretty rough in the past several years.  I rarely go, but when I do go I have a handgun on me.

[Tedro2022]

[/quote] So, I quit doing any business with any business in the mall that does not own their own property such as Sears or Penny's with their own entrances so you don't have to enter the mall.[/quote]

Sears and Penny's don't "own" any of their mall locations. They lease them from the mall the same as any other mall tenant.
Bass Pro gets away with it in their mall based locations because it is written into their leases with mall management that they sell firearms and if the mall would like to have them as a tenant they will allow carry inside their leased spaces.
Sorry to tell you that your logic is flawed. But if you can get away without shopping at a mall, I say go for it.



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[Sky King]

[/quote] So, I quit doing any business with any business in the mall that does not own their own property such as Sears or Penny's with their own entrances so you don't have to enter the mall.[/quote]

Sears and Penny's don't "own" any of their mall locations. They lease them from the mall the same as any other mall tenant.
Bass Pro gets away with it in their mall based locations because it is written into their leases with mall management that they sell firearms and if the mall would like to have them as a tenant they will allow carry inside their leased spaces.
Sorry to tell you that your logic is flawed. But if you can get away without shopping at a mall, I say go for it.



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[/quote]
I really don't want to get too far off topic but I based this on info I have from another mall.  While different malls may have different property circumstances, I do know that at the now all but dead Raleigh Springs Mall in Memphis, all the anchor stores there did own their own store properties.  Those anchor stores at that mall were Sears, Penny's, Dillards and Goldsmith, (now Macys).  I know this because being a member of The Raleigh Community Council we kept close track of negotiations that went on for a while between Walmart and Pennys to purchase the part of the mall that was Penny's.  We wanted Walmart to take over that facility in hopes it would revitalize the mall.  We found out from the mall owners that the anchor companies did own the part of the mall that they respectively occupied.  That was some of the problem getting other tennants into the mall because they had to negotiate with so many different property owners.  In the end, it all fell through and the mall in my opinion will likely go the way of The Mall of Memphis.  It is an eye sore now. 
 
As I said, different mall facilities may have different property relationships and Wolfchase may be as you say.  I just do know I have seen none of the mall rule signs I refered to at any of the dedicated entrances at Sears, Penny's or other anchor retailers.  I DO see them when I leave Sears and enter the mall from Sears which would make it seem as though those rules don't kick in untill you leave Sears and enter the Mall.

As far as getting by without shopping at a mall, with the exception of buying a lawn tractor from Sears two years ago, I can't remember the last time I was in a mall. I don't care for their weapons prohibition, I hate the traffic and I havn't found anything I need that I can't get somewhere else likely cheaper.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Sky King

[JRWnTN]

With that said, if anybody is aware of any employers across the state that have actually made changes to their policy in regards to weapons storage in private vehicles, I would really like to hear from you.  Also as time moves on with this new law, we need to know of any disciplinary action taken against employees because of weapon storage in private vehicles.

A lawyer I know, who specializes in employment law, said that he had several calls from employers who were previously unaware they could prohibit employees with carry permits from having firearms on their property.

[K191145]

I know the law doesn't go far enough to protect employees but I do like the fact that I can't be charged with a crime if I have my gun in my vehicle in places that prohibit guns, especially city parks that opted out of the carry in parks law and places like hospitals ect. The law is not all we want maybe but it's a start. How about a law prohibiting employers from requiring searches of employees private property,home and vehicles?

[Sky King]

I know the law doesn't go far enough to protect employees but I do like the fact that I can't be charged with a crime if I have my gun in my vehicle in places that prohibit guns, especially city parks that opted out of the carry in parks law and places like hospitals ect. The law is not all we want maybe but it's a start. How about a law prohibiting employers from requiring searches of employees private property,home and vehicles?

I'll be honest, I am not sure how the new law applies to the parks thing but I agree with what you say about the hospitals. One real problem is the trap that exists because the law only carves out specific exceptions in existing law. While you may not be prosecuted for the specific violation of carrying a weapon on posted property, you can still be charged with criminal trespass if the property owner wishes to press that charge. Also there is the issue with the wording "...the permit holder's privately-owned motor vehicle". More than one attorney has opined that if your car is in the shop and you are in a loaner or rental, you are not protected. What if you car pool?

I am well aware of company policies that make consent to search vehicles parked on their property, a condition of employement but I have never heard of them being able to extent that to your home. I would like to see that one. Nobody can search your private residence without a warrant or your permission. Are you saying you know of employers that make consent to search you HOME a condition of employment? I just don't see how that can fly.

[monkeylizard]

I am well aware of company policies that make consent to search vehicles parked on their property, a condition of employement but I have never heard of them being able to extent that to your home. I would like to see that one. Nobody can search your private residence without a warrant or your permission. Are you saying you know of employers that make consent to search you HOME a condition of employment? I just don't see how that can fly.

 

The only times I have seen it are for telecommuters. The documents I saw in that case were related to home inspections for verifying that the employee kept an adequate work space for their home office (defined as X sq. feet) and that it met OSHA standards (desk isn't blanced on a couple of 2x4's over a vat of acid, I guess).

Edited June 29, 2013 by monkeylizard

[K191145]

The only times I have seen it are for telecommuters. The documents I saw in that case were related to home inspections for verifying that the employee kept an adequate work space for their home office (defined as X sq. feet) and that it met OSHA standards (desk isn't blanced on a couple of 2x4's over a vat of acid, I guess).

This. I wouldn't doubt if there's other reasons some companies would want to search your home. Anyway, I would pick up aluminum cans off the road or mow lawns before I would work for a company like that.

[K191145]

I'll be honest, I am not sure how the new law applies to the parks thing but I agree with what you say about the hospitals. One real problem is the trap that exists because the law only carves out specific exceptions in existing law. While you may not be prosecuted for the specific violation of carrying a weapon on posted property, you can still be charged with criminal trespass if the property owner wishes to press that charge. Also there is the issue with the wording "...the permit holder's privately-owned motor vehicle". More than one attorney has opined that if your car is in the shop and you are in a loaner or rental, you are not protected. What if you car pool?

Well all I can do is interpret it the best I can, i'm not the person who lets people know I have a gun in my vehicle anyway. I do know that any federal property is still prohibited but I believe I remember hearing a law maker saying the law applies to all state and city property. Of course he may have been mistaken.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

So.. really .. nothing has changed...???.. you are still not allowed to leave it in the car if your employer says no.. or am I missing anything?

 

Why do they make it so confusing for Blonde people? :rofl:

[knewcomb]

Nissan in Smyrna updated their policy. If you have a permit, you are allowed to keep it in you vehicle as long as it is concealed.

[K191145]

So.. really .. nothing has changed...???.. you are still not allowed to leave it in the car if your employer says no.. or am I missing anything?

 

Why do they make it so confusing for Blonde people? :rofl:

From what I understand a permit holder can't be charged with a crime if he or she leaves their gun in their vehicle in the parking area of a business that prohibits guns, or city or state property. However if an employer finds out they have a gun in their vehicle they can still fire the employee.

[K191145]

I'll be honest, I am not sure how the new law applies to the parks thing but I agree with what you say about the hospitals. One real problem is the trap that exists because the law only carves out specific exceptions in existing law. While you may not be prosecuted for the specific violation of carrying a weapon on posted property, you can still be charged with criminal trespass if the property owner wishes to press that charge. Also there is the issue with the wording "...the permit holder's privately-owned motor vehicle". More than one attorney has opined that if your car is in the shop and you are in a loaner or rental, you are not protected. What if you car pool?

 

I would think that the private business in question would have to either tell you to leave their property verbally, or have signage that specifically stated that anyone with a gun in their vehicle is not welcome on their property and will be charged with tresspassing. Somewhere the word tresspassing has to be used.

[tnhawk]

All of the work sites I service in TN and GA have a sign on the gate stating that weapons are prohibited on their property.  Some in TN, have added an additional sign stating that a ccw permit is not an exception to their rule and violation may result in termination of employment.

[Sky King]

So.. really .. nothing has changed...???.. you are still not allowed to leave it in the car if your employer says no.. or am I missing anything?

 

Why do they make it so confusing for Blonde people? :rofl:

What HAS changed is the criminal aspect.  Before this law, two things COULD happen to you.  It was a CRIMINAL offence for a permitted person to carry a firearm onto a posted property.  SO what that means is that not only could you get fired by your employer, the state could prosecute you.

 

Now, the criminal aspect is gone.  The state is not going to prosecute you BUT you can still get fired.

[Oh Shoot]

What HAS changed is the criminal aspect.  Before this law, two things COULD happen to you.  It was a CRIMINAL offence for a permitted person to carry a firearm onto a posted property.  SO what that means is that not only could you get fired by your employer, the state could prosecute you.

 

And it could be a felony on school grounds, not just fine for Class B 'meanor for carrying past a sign.

 

- OS

Edited June 29, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Sky King]

I would think that the private business in question would have to either tell you to leave their property verbally, or have signage that specifically stated that anyone with a gun in their vehicle is not welcome on their property and will be charged with tresspassing. Somewhere the word tresspassing has to be used.

 

I would agree.  Generally speaking, when you are in a private location that is open to the public, such as a restaurant, it is presumed that you are invited in.  HOWEVER if you start conducting yourself in an unruley manner, the managment can ask you to leave.  Once that happens, you HAVE to leave or you can be charged with criminal tresspass.  I would thing the same would have to be true with the firearm.  While you may not be violating the posting law by virtue of your permit, if the property owner asks you to leave, for what ever reason, you have to leave.

 

Actually posting it as a tresspass issue may also be possible.  I don't know.

[Sky King]

All of the work sites I service in TN and GA have a sign on the gate stating that weapons are prohibited on their property.  Some in TN, have added an additional sign stating that a ccw permit is not an exception to their rule and violation may result in termination of employment.

 

Well that is actually not a bad idea if the employer has no intention of changing their policy.  At least it leaves no doubt or question about it.  The origional intent of this thread was to remind people to be SURE of their company policy before going to work with a firearm on Monday. 

 

I wish those employers would change their position but it appears that they will not unless we pressure the General Assembly to amend the law to make it a mandate like in about 17 other states.

[K191145]

Well that is actually not a bad idea if the employer has no intention of changing their policy.  At least it leaves no doubt or question about it.  The origional intent of this thread was to remind people to be SURE of their company policy before going to work with a firearm on Monday. 

 

I wish those employers would change their position but it appears that they will not unless we pressure the General Assembly to amend the law to make it a mandate like in about 17 other states.

 

They may break company policy but at least they aren't breaking the law, it would be so simple for anyone who keeps a gun in their vehicle to keep it out of sight and not tell anyone, no one, nadda. Not your best friend, brother, sister not anyone at all, if asked, lie.

[Guest BCR#1]

I ran into state senator Bo Watson a few weeks ago and brought up the fact permit holders were not happy with the wording of this law and he assured me it will be looked at next year when the new session starts.

 

Bill

[tnhawk]

They may break company policy but at least they aren't breaking the law, it would be so simple for anyone who keeps a gun in their vehicle to keep it out of sight and not tell anyone, no one, nadda. Not your best friend, brother, sister not anyone at all, if asked, lie.

With the use of random searches and dogs trained to detect firearms, out of sight and silence are not enough.

Edited July 16, 2013 by tnhawk