IDPA's new rule book

[Spiffy]

Why wouldn't you? Who does it harm? It only helps the club and grows the sport as I see it....

 

 

edit to add:

 

I probably don't understand how IDPA clubs work, so I'm just asking and not trying to be confrontational.

 

 

Think of it in terms of you own a bus company. Just because everyone pays taxes for road work doesn't give them the 'right' to ride your bus without paying you.  Or like using a computer iwth a bootleg copy of Windows. You might own the PC but you don't own the OS.  IDPA leases you the right to shoot under their rules for a year for $40. It's 2 boxes of ammo now so it's not like your going to have to pick pay for a membership or feed your kids this month.

[Spiffy]

I just want to shoot targets and have fun doing it

 

 

In that case, IDPA has made it abundantly clear, over and over again, that they don't want you there.

 

They don't like LSU either!!!

[RWF]

idpa is where i started in 2009, and i'll never stop shooting it, but uspsa is much more fun. thats a fact.

 

I agree, there something to be said about loading up 22 rounds and blasting away.

[AH1356]

If you are shooting in an IDPA match and you are not an IDPA member, why should you be allowed the same recognition as dues paying IDPA members? 

 

If somebody just wants to shoot the matches for the pleasure of it, fine. 

 

But if that person wants to get all competitive about it and see where their scores rank them - - - Join Up and become a member of IDPA.

 

Just My Two Cents & Your Mileage Will Vary........

 

I do not know how IDPA works.  But I have been responsible for posting club scores in USPSA for years, so I do know how USPSA works:

 

In USPSA, dues to the national organization pay for, among other things, the maintenance of members' classifications.  Non-menbers who shoot USPSA matches are welcome at every USPSA match I have ever shot.  The only exceptions are major championships.  Non-members see their scores relative to other shooters in their divisions and overall.  This is paid for by match fees, it is common courtesy, and it is a good way to encourage new shooters.  Non-USPSA-members do not have their classifier scores sent to the national organization, because there is no member number to associate with the scores.  At a club match, this is the only difference between members and non-members.  It would never occur to me to accept someone's money for a match fee, allow them to shoot a club match, then refuse to send them their scores because they did not join an organization headquartered several states away.

 

As for getting "all competitive about it," IDPA is a game.  If you don't want to "get all competitive about it" then put away the timer.  If you are keeping score, then you're in a competition.  And if you are in a competition, what harm can possibly be done by seeing the scores of ALL competitors? 

[gsbell]

One key difference is there is no classifier fee per shooter going back to IDPA, like there is in a USPSA match.

[timcalhoun]

Think of it in terms of you own a bus company. Just because everyone pays taxes for road work doesn't give them the 'right' to ride your bus without paying you.  Or like using a computer iwth a bootleg copy of Windows. You might own the PC but you don't own the OS.  IDPA leases you the right to shoot under their rules for a year for $40. It's 2 boxes of ammo now so it's not like your going to have to pick pay for a membership or feed your kids this month.

 

I guess I just don't get it. 

 

If it were a bus company, it is only supplying the operations manual. The club buys the bus, tires ,garage, gas, oil, labor, tools, advertisement etc....etc...etc.... Do they supply you with stage design other than the classifier? It's an affiliation plain and simple. The CLUB is the sports life blood, and the club will benefit greatly by not limiting participation based on membership.

 

Heck, I don't have a dog in the hunt. I wish y'all well and good shooting. I want all shooting sports to do well and I was just curious as to why you would limit participation. 

Edited July 1, 2013 by timcalhoun

[Rickey]

Like it or not IDPA's rule book states that you can only shoot 1 match before you become a member

[BrasilNuts]

I recognize Jerry, but who's the other guy? I dont recognize him lol

It just hit me, that's Sam Elliott with Jerry.

[Rickey]

Ah brother you need you glasses changed. Besides I aint that old yet

[DMark]

I probably don't understand how IDPA clubs work, so I'm just asking and not trying to be confrontational.

 

Tim,

 

My recommendation was to provide a little incentive to those folks who like to claim to be competitive shooters - - - but do nothing to support the governing body and the membership that has developed and maintained the sport.  

 

I'm in no way suggesting not allowing folks to show up and shoot matches for the fun of it and their own pleasure.  Again Happy to Have them at the Match.

 

Once More - - - Just My Two Cents Worth and to get back on topic, this "out-of-competition" suggestion didn't make it into the new Rule Book.

 

But Dang!

 

Now that I think about it.....

 

None of my suggestions made it into the new Rule Book.  :panic:  

[dlmeadows]

They don't like LSU either!!!

 

 

Ya know I really don't care if they do or not. But I'm the only shooter in this area with a white LSU hat on at every match. I'm easy to find lol. hoping they get to see a whole lot of it at the Nationals lol

[Spiffy]

I guess I just don't get it. 

 

If it were a bus company, it is only supplying the operations manual. The club buys the bus, tires ,garage, gas, oil, labor, tools, advertisement etc....etc...etc.... Do they supply you with stage design other than the classifier? It's an affiliation plain and simple. The CLUB is the sports life blood, and the club will benefit greatly by not limiting participation based on membership.

 

Heck, I don't have a dog in the hunt. I wish y'all well and good shooting. I want all shooting sports to do well and I was just curious as to why you would limit participation. 

 

Basically it's someone using your property without compensating YOU.

[Spiffy]

Ah brother you need you glasses changed. Besides I aint that old yet

 

But your just as cool!

[Cruel Hand Luke]

You can no longer move behind cover when doing a reload. Tactical or slide lock. You must be flat footed. If you even think about it and lift your foot up you will get a PE. That's how I and many others understand the new rule.

Well I guess as long as no one ELSE can move behind cover then it is still an even playing field....which is what they strive for...in a game...And no matter how "more" tactical IDPA is than IPSC it is still ...just a game. And games have rules.  

 

IDPA is a test of one's shooting and gun handling ability under the stress of a timer and peer witness set in the backdrop of somewhat realistic shooting problems where you carry guns the same way that some people carry them on the street. That is all it is. The difference between it and any other game are simply the rules. 

 

Is IDPA truly "tactical"? No. Is it "training"? No...but sadly some do not know the difference and use it as such. Again , it is a test of accuracy and gun handling skills in a setting that somewhat replicates some possible street scenarios. 

 

So I just look at as whether I'm able to solve the problem that has been set forth faster than the other competitors....with no illusions that what we are doing is how I would REALLY do it on the street. SOME stages can come close but most do not.

 

The stages that run like ...."You are standing at the ATM machine....at buzzer turn to your right and engage the metal knockdown target 6 yards away without hitting the NO shoot at 4 yards"....are far more realistic than any 18 shot  9 target stage. But it is still not "real" as no one moves or shoots back and running away (which is a viable answer most of the time on the street) is never an option. 

 

So I guess what I'm saying is that since I just look at the matches as a fun break from more realistic training pursuits I do not feel the sense of anger that some do over some of the seemingly arbitrary rules. I get that it is a game and as such as long as EVERYONE has to deal with the same arbitrary rules then it is "even" for everyone and still a test of shooting and gun handling skills. 

Edited July 1, 2013 by Cruel Hand Luke

[itchytriggerfinger]

I agree with you 100% CHL.  It's just a game.  If you don't like playing basketball, go play football.

[CatsEye]

I feel about the same way Luke. During the comment period I told them I thought the reload rule was stupid. It's their game I just play it and will continue to do so. I have never had a problem with any of the rules as long as we all have to follow them. In the long run its not really a big deal, I'm sure I can adjust.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

For that matter, under IDPA rules I cannot even compete carrying my pistol the way I do in everyday life. AIWB (Appendix IWB) is not allowed so when I shoot IDPA matches I have to run my gun in a position that is not even how I carry it... same with my mag pouch. I wear it in front of my hip not behind it so I have to readjust that too to be in compliance with the rules....

 

But that is OK....I just have to work around it. I still shoot with a closed front cover garment (like I carry)  from an IWB holster (like I carry) , I just run it and my mag pouch around to where it is IDPA legal. I'd rather roll the way I do on the street, but that is not IDPA legal....but that is OK....since it is a game. 

[Spiffy]

For that matter, under IDPA rules I cannot even compete carrying my pistol the way I do in everyday life. AIWB (Appendix IWB) is not allowed so when I shoot IDPA matches I have to run my gun in a position that is not even how I carry it... same with my mag pouch. I wear it in front of my hip not behind it so I have to readjust that too to be in compliance with the rules....

 

But that is OK....I just have to work around it. I still shoot with a closed front cover garment (like I carry)  from an IWB holster (like I carry) , I just run it and my mag pouch around to where it is IDPA legal. I'd rather roll the way I do on the street, but that is not IDPA legal....but that is OK....since it is a game. 

 

 

I wonder if AIWB would fall under the Club Allowed rule that now lets you use 22LR, Guns with Carry Optics, ect for no score. Or is that more a safety issue than a "game" rule? My thinking is like ORSA has USPSA so the RO/SOs are used to guns in that general position.

[Jamie Jackson]

For that matter, under IDPA rules I cannot even compete carrying my pistol the way I do in everyday life. AIWB (Appendix IWB) is not allowed so when I shoot IDPA matches I have to run my gun in a position that is not even how I carry it... same with my mag pouch. I wear it in front of my hip not behind it so I have to readjust that too to be in compliance with the rules....

 

[b]But that is OK....I just have to work around it. I still shoot with a closed front cover garment (like I carry)  from an IWB holster (like I carry) , I just run it and my mag pouch around to where it is IDPA legal. I'd rather roll the way I do on the street, but that is not IDPA legal....but that is OK....since it is a game. [/b]

 

Excellent point my friend. I feel exactly the same way about this.

I've carried appendix for a number of years, it's [i]my[/i] EDC preference. I enjoy IDPA because it is a venue that allows me to practice within the parameters you previously mentioned, and challenge myself to improve within those parameters. Nothing more.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if AIWB would fall under the Club Allowed rule that now lets you use 22LR, Guns with Carry Optics, ect for no score. Or is that more a safety issue than a "game" rule? My thinking is like ORSA has USPSA so the RO/SOs are used to guns in that general position.

 

 

I doubt it Brotherman.

 

The first IDPA match I shot at ORSA ('06) wouldn't even allow IWB holsters. Obviously that changed. Changes will continue I'm sure. Possibly as AIWB becomes more the "norm"...if it does in fact...maybe, just maybe. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

I just appreciate being able to shoot interesting scenarios and getting to hang out with good folks with similar interests.

 

 

 

As a side not, and one of appreciation: The 2 stages at the Secret City Challenge I found the most applicable to defensive shooting were the two involving the automobiles. They were about the most "street applicable" stages I've seen at an IDPA Match. So Thanks to the designers of those stages. :hat:

[Spiffy]

For people who never shot inside a car before it was great learning experience.

 

For all the complaining we all do, IDPA is unique in the "real life" (sorry kittens) aspects of the stages. 

[CatsEye]

The car was fun.

[dcloudy777]

Shooting out of cars gets really interesting with shotguns and rifles.  The 16" .308 with a muzzle brake from in the car at the Pro-Am a couple years ago was epic!  :up:

[Cruel Hand Luke]

As Prag mentioned, shooting the "car stages" were my favorite too.

 

Of course the stage shooting FROM the car was fun, but I also liked the other one where you simply turned and engaged the 2 targets who "approached while you were working on the car".

 

I'm one of those weirdos who actually prefer simple, quick ,realistic stages where you might engage 1 or 2 or MAYBE 3 guys instead of the "Rescue the President from the embassy that is under attack" stages where you have 9 targets and multiple rooms...... I'm not saying they should ALL be single target stages, but those are a bit more realistic.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Spiffy]

As Prag mentioned, shooting the "car stages" were my favorite too.

 

Of course the stage shooting FROM the car was fun, but I also liked the other one where you simply turned and engaged the 2 targets who "approached while you were working on the car".

 

I'm one of those weirdos who actually prefer simple, quick ,realistic stages where you might engage 1 or 2 or MAYBE 3 guys instead of the "Rescue the President from the embassy that is under attack" stages where you have 9 targets and multiple rooms...... I'm not saying they should ALL be single target stages, but those are a bit more realistic.

 

I don't think ORSA has had it again since Feb of last year but they had a plane high jacking stage. Really great stage and 1st time I shot IDPA. Had an honest to goodness Air Marshall on the squad and it was a really good stage. 

 

I loved the Don't Shoot John's Jeep stage too.

[BrasilNuts]

That was my first time shooting out of a vehicle, I'm 6'2" 285, it surprised me how easy it was for me to maneuver in that small car.