The OC'ers Strike Back: Challenge "Police State"

[gun sane]

We've all been wondering where and when something like this will happen.  It's in Erie, PA and it's now.

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/23/gun-rights-rallygoers-defy-local-law-confront-police-state-actions/

[JohnC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N96XnfK9YNI

Interesting. Wonder if they do this to all groups rallying/protesting or just gun owners?

[whitewolf001]

Velcome to Obamas Amerika. :down:

[East_TN_Patriot]

Well, the police are correct; law enforcement does not need any reasonable suspicion to write down license plate numbers or run them.  The police can run your tags whenever they want as long as it is for official police business (not for personal use).  In this case, it was clearly police business because the were responding to a situation where a group of people were openly violating the law by carrying in a park, which was prohibited by local laws.  If you decide to engage in civil disobedience, don't cry like little wusses when the police show up to enforce the law.

 

I am also very irritated with the response and ignorance of the people filming the officers.  I will never understand the mentality of people (regardless of political affiliation) that think they are going to score points or attract supporters who do ignorant crap like this.  They show up, intentionally violate the law, and then verbally abuse the police who show up to investigate the crimes by calling them Nazis.  What a bunch of douchebags!  Frankly, I hope a bunch of them did get citations.  I also hope that we never see this sort of pure ignorance in our state!   The fact that the Glenn Beck machine presents this as a legitimate response is just one more reason I am no longer a fan and glad to see he has become largely irrelevant.  

These morons also fail to realize that most beat cops are fully supportive of Second Amendment rights in this country.  It's mostly the big city police chiefs and sheriffs that are anti-gun.  Nothing good comes from alienating supporters, which is something many pro-gun groups need to learn.

Gun owners are proving more and more to be their own worst enemy.  :mad:

EDIT:

Holy  :censored: !  I made the mistake of going back and reading the comments on the Blaze website.  Good friggin' grief!  If those comments reflect even a substantial portion of gun owners...

Edited June 24, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[RobertNashville]

This sort of stuff does absolutely NOTHING good for those who want to openly carry.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's all well and good. Why then didn't the police officer say he was investigating a crime? He kind of

made himself look silly, I think. It used to be that cops were hailed as role models, especially in the districts

they served. I wish it would get back to that.

 

Lead by example.

[Spots]

That's all well and good. Why then didn't the police officer say he was investigating a crime? He kind of

made himself look silly, I think. It used to be that cops were hailed as role models, especially in the districts

they served. I wish it would get back to that.

 

Lead by example.

 

 

The cop answering with "Following orders" was a horrible response. To much us vs them attitude on both sides. Of course my ideas on where to start is that everyone is allowed to own and carry what they want. If a police officer can carry there, why can't I? If a policeman can have a select fire SBR, why can't I? they are citizens just as I am.

[East_TN_Patriot]

That's all well and good. Why then didn't the police officer say he was investigating a crime? He kind of

made himself look silly, I think. It used to be that cops were hailed as role models, especially in the districts

they served. I wish it would get back to that.

 

Lead by example.

I would say he did lead by example.  He calmly told them he did not need reasonable suspicion to write down tag numbers, which is true.  They argued with him and insulted him in response.  He then continued to do his job without arguing and without engaging in conversation with the people who were trying to bait him into a verbal altercation, which certainly would have been used against him online.  When he didn't bite, they insulted him some more and said that the SCOTUS recently ruled that silence can be used against you, which is not true and is a very disingenuous interpretation of the ruling I assume they are referring to.  Those idiots don't actually care what the officer's answer was or that he was actually within his legal authority to do what he was doing.  The people knew they were violating the law; that was the point of the whole gathering.  When you encounter people like that, the best approach is to not give them any more ammunition to use against you.  

We should be glad that the police just showed up and wrote down tag numbers for the purpose of issuing citations, a very reasonable response, rather than storming the place with an armed SWAT team.  I'm not saying I agree with the law, but that is simply not the way to voice disapproval.

 

Edited June 24, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[itchytriggerfinger]

I would say he did lead by example.  He calmly told them he did not need reasonable suspicion to write down tag numbers, which is true.  They argued with him and insulted him in response.  He then continued to do his job without arguing and without engaging in conversation with the people who were trying to bait him into a verbal altercation, which certainly would have been used against him online.  When he didn't bite, they insulted him some more and said that the SCOTUS recently ruled that silence can be used against you, which is not true.  Those idiots don't actually care what the officer's answer was or that he was actually within his legal authority to do what he was doing.  The people knew they were violating the law; that was the point of the whole gathering.  When you encounter people like that, the best approach is to not give them any more ammunition to use against you.  

We should be glad that the police just showed up and wrote down tag numbers for the purpose of issuing citations, a very reasonable response, rather than storming the place with an armed SWAT team.  I'm not saying I agree with the law, but that is simply not the way to voice disapproval.

 

 

I agree with you on this.  I don't like the fact I can't carry in our local parks, but I don't show up in protest with a sidearm on each hip.

[jtmaze]

I did not watch the video, but I think the people where not breaking a state law but a city ordinance that was made unlawful by a new law. If they were disrespectful, they were in the wrong but shouldn't be cited since the city ordinance was made unlawful by state law.

[npgunner]

Surprising to me they were writing them down. ATL PD (where Im forced to reside currently) has automatic scanners on several police cars that do this sort of thing while they drive around. They frequently run up and down parking garages during the day "checking for stolen vehicles." This system also logs where you are and when and can be combined with their street cameras to recreate your average day. Supposedly the info is only stored for 48 hours but I have little faith in that ... but you can consider me paranoid too.

[gun sane]

I doubt that this incident will start a revolutionary war, but it does get me wondering just how far an oppressive government will have to go until law-abiding citizens go from disgruntled obedience to civil disobedience and finally to out-and-out rebellion.  The Lexington-Concord battle started because the British were moving to collect a cache of arms and arrest rebel leaders.  This confrontation where the "shot heard 'round the world" was fired began a long fight for American independence.  It's no secret that the liberal political factions, as well as the executive branch of government, would desire to see a gun-free nation and might one day become bold enough to decree and enforce it, just as the British attempted to do.  My question is where is the line between, "That's the law" and "Liberty or death"?

[East_TN_Patriot]

My question is where is the line between, "That's the law" and "Liberty or death"?

 

I don't think there is an easy answer to this question, but I am certain it should not be a city ordinance prohibiting guns in city parks that has apparently been superseded by state law. As the Founders said:
 

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

 

I fully understand the frustration people feel towards the government.  I share in that frustration at a very deep level of my core values and personal beliefs.  I am very concerned with the condition of our nation and the seemingly out-of-control power of the federal government.
 

 

EDIT:  Sorry, my 2 year old decided it was time for me to play with cars and closed my laptop before I was done with my thought.  

As I was saying, I understand the frustration, but all of these self-proclaimed revolutionaries and their groupies need to think long and hard about what they are calling for.  Do we REALLY want a war?  Think about what that means for a minute.  Think about the death and devastation.  Think about what it would mean for the revolutionaries if they lost.  Think about what that would mean for our Constitution and how it is interpreted.  I don't give a crap if only 3 percent of the American population was actively supportive of the Revolutionary War.  This is not 1775 and the US is very different politically, culturally, and demographically.  The chances of a similar revolt being successful in today's world is virtually zero and the outcome would likely be catastrophic politically for those who support libertarian or conservative views.  The absolute last thing we need is a bunch of wanna-be George Washingtons who are ignorant of history and delusional about reality to stir up armed revolution.  I will say it here and I will say it to your face: if you are one of these people, you are NOT a friend of liberty.  You are dangerous and do much more harm than good.  

The political system, as imperfect as it may be, is still a viable and legitimate means for addressing issues.  Proof of this lies in the failure of anti-gun politicians to pass legislation at the federal level.  Instead of alienating people through belligerent rhetoric and giving opponents the ammunition they need to win the public debate by living up to their claims that gun owners are dangerous and delusional, harness that passion for educating the public, teaching gun safety classes, etc.  I personally know of one pro-gun organization that is alienating supporters through this sort of inflammatory rhetoric and have spoken to people who are active in the organization who share my concerns.  One member in particular told me of multiple incidents they witnessed where elected officials came to speak with the group and were shouted out of the room for not parroting their absolutist rhetoric or left voluntarily due to the violent tone of the comments made by members.  Mark my words; if this sort of activity becomes more mainstream, there WILL be negative repercussions for gun owners.  

Edited June 25, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[Superman]

What is the tag number going to do for the police? Just because you were at that park at that time doesnt mean you are breaking the law. Are they going to write everybody a ticket?

[Spots]

What is the tag number going to do for the police? Just because you were at that park at that time doesnt mean you are breaking the law. Are they going to write everybody a ticket?

From the article " “They’ve been going around writing down everyone’s license plate number…” said attorney Joshua Prince, a lawyer for Justin Dillon, the founder of Open Carry PA. “They said they’re going to be querying the JNet [Justice Network] system to basically try and do facial recognition…and then proceed from there in issuing citations.”

sent from the backwoods