Are you prepared to defend yourself with a blade?

[Spots]

i see and hear alot of people talk about carrying a blade for self defense. Those who carry a pistol for self defense will spend hours practicing their draw and shooting, as well as taking classes to better their chances in just such an encounter. Can you say the same for a blade? Blade skills need to be developed just like firearm and unarmed skills do. So no matter what style or method use choose, make sure to mentally and physically prepare yourself for the encounter we all hope never comes. that said, i found this article on another website, and thought I would share as its really well written

 

KNIFE DEFENSE MYTH

By Carl Cestari

 

 

Instead of talking about alot of bull#### concerning so-called unarmed "knife" defenses, let's reverse roles for a moment.

 

Let us assume the "role" of the attacker, instead of the "defender".

 

First, let's consider the "choice" of weapon.

 

A knife or any edged weapon is an "up close and personal" tool of ferocious and brutal mayhem. You have to close with your mark and physically, violently and with extreme prejudice stab, slash, and hack him to bits. It's not like a gun, which could have an element of detachment. No, a knife is about as personal, brutal and ruthless as it gets.

 

So what kind of "mind-set" does this entail? You are going close with your target hard and fast, using deception, surprise or simply a committed and brutal pouncing. You are going to be determined, ruthless, brutal, ferocious, vicious, and most probably filled with hate and rage.

 

You are going to seize the target with abject brutality and stab, slash, hack and eviscerate with totally committed rage, ferocity and hate. OVER and OVER and OVER.

 

NOTHING is going to stand in your way. NOTHING! You are going to DESTROY whatever DOES attempt to thwart your murderous assault. You will attack repeatedly with ALL the strength, speed, and brutality you are capable of. And THAT will be heightened even MORE by rage and adrenalin.

 

You KNOW that you MUST get this over with QUICKLY. Your attack will be a frenzy of hate, rage and murderous INTENT.

 

You WON'T "feint" with your blade, you WON'T "spar" with your blade, you WON'T "half-step" with your blade.

 

You WILL attack with brutal and ruthless rage. You WILL punch, kick, bite, gouge, butt, and do ANY and EVERYTHING that will accomplish you GOAL in as ferocious a manner as Inhumanly possible.

 

Unless YOU are killed outright, NO injury will dissuade you from KILLING your mark. In FACT, anything LESS than your death, will ONLY add MORE FUEL to YOUR FIRE. NOTHING, short of your immediate demise CAN stop you. Rage, hate, murderous intent and adrenalin are fueling you to an almost superhuman state of FRENZY and FEROCITY!

 

Even when your man goes down, and DOWN you are determined to put him, YOU still continue the assault. You stab and stab and stab. You kick and stomp OVER and OVER and OVER again.

 

You DON'T even begin to "disengage" until your "blood" lust has been quenched, and your mark taken off the count.

 

THAT is what REALLY happens when one human being uses a knife on another.

 

Face that FACT squarely. Too many are "playing" knife gymnastics without EVER even realizing what the street has in store for them. It ain't going to be pretty!

 

Are you REALLY preparing to DEAL with THAT?

 

Or are you kidding yourself and others?

 

REALITY sucks, as they say. But it is what it is!

 

Carl Cestari

Edited June 23, 2013 by Spots

[ArmyBrat61]

Direct and to the point!

[TrickyNicky]

Great article, thanks.

[UncleJak]

Not to get into great details, but when I was training for my first blackbelt we did extensive knife training. Two points that are key: you will get cut and bleed,ANd how do you want to get cut?
This article reminded me of that.

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[MiddTennTaco]

If I have to use lethal force Im not going to use a knife. If I have to use a knife Im screwed anyway.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Just my two cents, but if I end up needing to use a knife for self defense, I don't think it's going to take much mental preparation to get the "ferocity" needed to try and protect myself.  If it's down to using my knife, things have gotten really really really really bad and it's literally a very dire life or death situation.  I think that this article over-estimates the knife fighting skills of your typical street thug.  In the real world the chances of being engaged in a "knife fight" are essentially zero.  In 10 years of policing, I don't recall ever arresting a single person that had a blade on them that was going to be used for knife fighting.  If a thug did approach me with a knife, I'd be very confident that they have no more knife fighting skill than I do, so even minimal thought and effort put into learning how to fight with a blade will give you the edge in just about any situation you may find yourself in.  All that said, I'm not really sure what the author's point is.

[Spots]

Just my two cents, but if I end up needing to use a knife for self defense, I don't think it's going to take much mental preparation to get the "ferocity" needed to try and protect myself.  If it's down to using my knife, things have gotten really really really really bad and it's literally a very dire life or death situation.  I think that this article over-estimates the knife fighting skills of your typical street thug.  In the real world the chances of being engaged in a "knife fight" are essentially zero.  In 10 years of policing, I don't recall ever arresting a single person that had a blade on them that was going to be used for knife fighting.  If a thug did approach me with a knife, I'd be very confident that they have no more knife fighting skill than I do, so even minimal thought and effort put into learning how to fight with a blade will give you the edge in just about any situation you may find yourself in.  All that said, I'm not really sure what the author's point is.

 

His point is to make sure people understand what its like to be on the other side of someone who is intent on killing you. It normally isn't a knife fight, as much as its a slash and hack and stab against an unarmed person. Its not really about the skill of your opponent, its more about the ferocity and determination of them. We always trained to deal with an NFL linebacker on PCP, so anything less than that would be a break. Just one point of view, and I will always stand by the fact that I believe a 12 ga shotgun is the best weapon to bring to a knife fight

[tennessee01tacoma]

The thought of having to use a blade to defend myself is a grizzly one. If you think you can handle it then maybe you should field dress and butcher a deer(which I'm fairly comfortable with) or filet a fish, and I guarantee slicing another human being will be atleast 10 times worse. If it came down to my life or his I would like to believe I could do it, but I also think it would haunt me.

[Spots]

The thought of having to use a blade to defend myself is a grizzly one. If you think you can handle it then maybe you should field dress and butcher a deer(which I'm fairly comfortable with) or filet a fish, and I guarantee slicing another human being will be atleast 10 times worse. If it came down to my life or his I would like to believe I could do it, but I also think it would haunt me.

 

It would probably give me nightmares. A blade makes a freaking mess, Ive done a lot of research and studied on knife wounds, especially stuff from prisons. I was raised killing and butchering hogs, deer, etc, and some of the wounds I've seen made by a serious blade will make your stomach turn. A true situation where I had to use a blade would be a nightmare.

[tennessee01tacoma]

It would probably give me nightmares. A blade makes a freaking mess, Ive done a lot of research and studied on knife wounds, especially stuff from prisons. I was raised killing and butchering hogs, deer, etc, and some of the wounds I've seen made by a serious blade will make your stomach turn. A true situation where I had to use a blade would be a nightmare.

I totally agree. If anyone could slice another human being without having some sort of post trauma then they need to be examined.

[Oh Shoot]

The thought of having to use a blade to defend myself is a grizzly one. ..

 

I wouldn't ever want to take on a black bear with a blade, let alone a grizzly. ;)

 

- OS

[Spots]

The thought of having to use a blade to defend myself is a grizzly one. ..

I wouldn't ever want to take on a black bear with a blade, let alone a grizzly. ;)

- OS

Wouldn't be a bad way to go out. Blade buried to the hilt in a bear.

sent from the backwoods

[Guest Emtdaddy1980]

Legends of the fall comes to mind

[tennessee01tacoma]

I wouldn't ever want to take on a black bear with a blade, let alone a grizzly. ;)

- OS

Lol, luckily we only black bears around here. Edited June 24, 2013 by tennessee01tacoma

[Oh Shoot]

Wouldn't be a bad way to go out. Blade buried to the hilt in a bear.

 

Lol, luckily we only black bears around here.

 

Y'all missed my little jokey poo -- word tt was looking for is "grisly".

 

- OS

[tennessee01tacoma]

Y'all missed my little jokey poo -- word tt was looking for is "grisly".

- OS

Oops well expanded my vocabulary by one word

[Erik88]

Y'all missed my little jokey poo -- word tt was looking for is "grisly".

 

- OS

 

I just think it's cute you said jokey poo... :wave:

[Jamie Jackson]

Spots;

 

Thank you for broaching this topic.

 

I think a lot, if not most, people have never seriously considered what the reality of this type of attack would be.

 

The contributions of people like Rex Applegate, Fairbairn and Sykes, Bob Kasper and Carl Cestari are incredible. They “did the work”.

 

I think it was Kelly McCann that said “Martial arts are what you do with somebody; Combatives are what you do to somebody”…the above wrote the book on Combatives. We can all learn from them. They lived and functioned in the brutal world of reality.

 

I carry a gun. I also carry a knife (or two) and an impact tool. I train with them all, and I been blessed to learn from Andy Stanford, Paul Gomez, SouthNarc and several others.

 

We generally don’t have the initiative in these attacks. We, by law, and personal moral code, find ourselves as “defenders”, not “attackers”. That puts us behind the curve from the getgo. Most of us won’t even know we are in a fight, until it is well underway.

I know folks will say “I stay in Condition Yellow”, “I’ll see it coming and _______  & _____.” I hope so. But reality all too often dictates otherwise.

 

Predators (like Cestari described above) hunt in packs, and only if they perceive that they can win…

 

There is a ‘treatise” written by SouthNarc entitled [url=http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?7751-The-Myth-of-Proportional-Armament-by-SouthNarc] “The Myth of Proportional Armament”[/url] that is well worth reading, imho.

 

 

In my many years working ER and ICU I have seen the end results of edged weapons attacks (18 years working in New Orleans). It’s brutal, vicious, and messy … the results are totally unpredictable.

 

Even here in East TN, I’ve seen a 2” blade penetrate the heart when a person was stabbed in his left side. Human tissue is very compressible. This guy didn’t know he was stabbed, as I hear from the majority of folks I’ve given care to.

 

 

While dated, there is a very good film by Calibre Press called “Surviving Edged Weapons” that will give a bit of insight into this topic.

 

Good topic Sir. Food for thought.

[East_TN_Patriot]

His point is to make sure people understand what its like to be on the other side of someone who is intent on killing you. It normally isn't a knife fight, as much as its a slash and hack and stab against an unarmed person. Its not really about the skill of your opponent, its more about the ferocity and determination of them. We always trained to deal with an NFL linebacker on PCP, so anything less than that would be a break. Just one point of view, and I will always stand by the fact that I believe a 12 ga shotgun is the best weapon to bring to a knife fight

Right, I get all of that, but again, what's his point?  Is there really anyone out there who thinks otherwise?  Is this a dig at martial arts knife "fighters" who the author believes do not grasp the brutal violence associated with being involved in a battle to the death between knife-wielding individuals?  Maybe I am just being too much of a curmudgeon, but it reads as if the author is trying to stroke his own ego by pounding his chest while proclaiming "I AM READY TO ENGAGE IN BLOODY COMBAT!" 

I also agree with you; always bring a gun to a knife fight.  :up:

[Guest Emtdaddy1980]

@Prag, that was a good read, thanks for linking it.

[Spots]

Right, I get all of that, but again, what's his point?  Is there really anyone out there who thinks otherwise?  Is this a dig at martial arts knife "fighters" who the author believes do not grasp the brutal violence associated with being involved in a battle to the death between knife-wielding individuals?  Maybe I am just being too much of a curmudgeon, but it reads as if the author is trying to stroke his own ego by pounding his chest while proclaiming "I AM READY TO ENGAGE IN BLOODY COMBAT!" 

I also agree with you; always bring a gun to a knife fight.  :up:

 

I would say there are more people out there who think otherwise than you realize. I think a lot of people think about a knife the same way they think about a shotgun. They think that pulling a knife will have the same effect that racking a shotgun will, and they think its more point and stab just like they think a shotgun is point and shoot. They think they take it serious, but they don't understand the gravity of the situation or what it takes to use a blade for defense.

 

Btw I think racking a shotgun is a great way to get shot. If I'm using deadly force they will be lucky if they here the safety click off, I'm not of the mindset to give warnings or give away my location with a loud racking sound. just like if I pull a blade, I hope to have them cut and down before they ever know it came unsheathed.

 

All that said I think his man point is to try and get people to take it seriously and really contemplate the situation. Not to thump his chest.

[Jamie Jackson]

You're welcome EMT.

 

My take on this may be a bit different. I don't in any way believe Mr. Cestari was stroking his ego, but, from the perspective of his background and training, warning his students that there are times when suddenly and brutally attacked, you must deploy empty hand, reactive skills in order to even be able to access your own weapon.

Reality is, when you are behind the eight ball and reacting, you must stop/trap/or make some distance...even momentarily...in order to access your own weapons.

 

If you ever have the opportunity, try a force on force at phone booth, bad breath, distances using Sims with a quality professional trainer. I know it was an eye opening experience for me. YMMV.

 

Just my opinion and no disrespect intended to anyone posting.

[Jamie Jackson]

and...

I totally agree with the point Spots made. The vast majority of the career predators would not be in the least intimidated at the sight of a knife or gun. Those things are a part of their daily reality, many have been cut or shot before (this is from my personal work experience and observations).

 

In an adrenalinized and aggressive state, many won't even know they've been cut or some...even shot...at least not initially.

 

There is nothing to be gained by displaying a lethal force tool in the majority of instances. Let them be the one that needs to reset their OODA loop.

[gunwhatgun]

Yes.

[crashgordan]

.