better stop watching tv & get your landscaping cleaned up this weekend.

[RobertNashville]

Welcome to TGO TNguy! You shouldn't apologize when you're right about something.

Don't get me wrong, I like ol'e Robert, I wouldn't swap spit with the man or anything but gladly I'd share a meal &/or drink a brewskie or two with him anytime..

He does however seem to have a great deal of personal tolerance for tyranny/authoritarianism, so I'd say you were right on target with your assessment.

But most Americans share this sort of tolerance of tyranny, because it is a "soft-tyranny", a for our own good tyranny, a to keep us safe tyranny, it has been packaged & sold to the American public in small, easy to swallow doses, flavored with sugary kool-aid goodness.

I will say that Robert is starting to show little signs of "waking up" but he still holds pretty fast (as most folks do) to the American 2 political party deception.

 

What you want to call tyranny others call freedom of choice and freedom of association.

 

There is simply nothing tyrannical about a group of people who live in the same community agreeing to live under a set of rules of conduct...no one is forced to live in that community and there is always a process for changing the rules.

 

An entire community (city, county, etc), through their elected officials, deciding on certain codes of conduct is also not "tyranny"; it is exactly the representative democratic process the Constitution calls for.  Again; no one is require to live in any community if they don't like the rules...there is also a proscribed process to change rules that people don't like or think is unfair or believe is an infringement of their individual rights.

 

A citizen's right to use his property in the way he wishes ENDS when his actions affect another person negatively...recognizing that is not an acceptance of "tyranny", soft or otherwise. Rather, it's a recognition that NO ONE's RIGHTS exist in a vacuum.

 

I don't want to live next-door to someone who won't mow his grass...I don't want to live next-door to someone who decides to turn his residence into a storefront and have people coming and going at all hours of the night...I don't want to live next-door to someone who suddenly decides to raise livestock in his backyard so I CHOSE to live in a community with other people who also don't want to live next-door to people who do what I mentioned above so I/we chose to live in communities where such things are regulated as a matter of law and/or by dead restrictions and/or though homeowner associations. THAT is my right as a free citizen.

 

We have a Constitutionally proscribed democratic process for stopping rules or changing rules that actually are tyrannical but I am beginning to suspect that a lot of people use the word "tyranny" simply as a means to denigrate because that's a lot easier than doing the heavy lifting of actually changing rules that are truly tyrannical.

Edited July 2, 2013 by RobertNashville

[RichardR]

Sorry Robert forming a "committee" of like minded mini-tyrants prior to bossing people around, isn't freedom of choice &/or freedom of association for those folks being forced to comply with ordinances & regulations they vehemently disagree with, or be forced to flee their homes, private property, even city/town/county/state/nation in order to escape from you & your committee's persecution.

Communist's absolutely loved forming "committees" ...

[RobertNashville]

Sorry Robert forming a "committee" of like minded mini-tyrants prior to bossing people around, isn't freedom of choice &/or freedom of association for those folks being forced to comply with ordinances & regulations they vehemently disagree with, or be forced to flee their homes, private property, even city/town/county/state/nation in order to escape from you & your committee's persecution.

Communist's absolutely loved forming "committees" ...

Do you have even a remote clue how insulting it is to insinuate that someone who has worn the uniform for eight years (active) and still does in a minor way is a “communist”.  If you’ve served you should understand that, if you haven’t then you’ll never understand which is a pity.

 

I’m not talking about “committees” and you damn well know it…frankly it’s pretty disingenuous of you to purposely mislead people by claiming that I am. Of course it's alwasy easier to throw insults around than to actually discuss an issue isn't it.

 

The VOTERS voting in what laws they want to have is not a “committee”; it’s called democracy…voting in representatives who then pass laws the community wants is called a representative democracy. If you don’t like that process then too bad because that IS the process set up by our Constitution.

 

A lot of people who throw around words like "tyranny" will concurrently proclaim how much they honor and respect and want to follow the Constitution but it seems that they only honor and respect the Constitution when things go the way THEY think things sould be done. :rolleyes:

Edited July 2, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Chucktshoes]

Sorry Robert forming a "committee" of like minded mini-tyrants prior to bossing people around, isn't freedom of choice &/or freedom of association for those folks being forced to comply with ordinances & regulations they vehemently disagree with, or be forced to flee their homes, private property, even city/town/county/state/nation in order to escape from you & your committee's persecution.


Communist's absolutely loved forming "committees" ...

Do you have even a remote clue how insulting it is to insinuate that someone who has worn the uniform for eight years (active) and still does in a minor way is a “communist”. If you’ve served you should understand that, if you haven’t then you’ll never understand which is a pity.

I’m not talking about “committees” and you damn well know it…frankly it’s pretty disingenuous of you to purposely mislead people by claiming that I am. Of course it's alwasy easier to throw insults around than to actually discuss an issue isn't it.

The VOTERS voting in what laws they want to have is not a “committee”; it’s called democracy…voting in representatives who then pass laws the community wants is called a representative democracy. If you don’t like that process then too bad because that IS the process set up by our Constitution.

A lot of people who throw around words like "tyranny" will concurrently proclaim how much they honor and respect and want to follow the Constitution but it seems that they only honor and respect the Constitution when things go the way THEY think things sould be done. :rolleyes:

If you find the correlation between your brand of authoritarianism and the commie's brand as drawn by Richard so insulting, maybe the solution is to stop acting in a manner that draws such comparisons in the first place?

[tnguy]

The VOTERS voting in what laws they want to have is not a “committee”; it’s called democracy…voting in representatives who then pass laws the community wants is called a representative democracy. If you don’t like that process then too bad because that IS the process set up by our Constitution.

 

A lot of people who throw around words like "tyranny" will concurrently proclaim how much they honor and respect and want to follow the Constitution but it seems that they only honor and respect the Constitution when things go the way THEY think things sould be done. :rolleyes:

 

Sorry Robert, I have some issues with this. Firstly, the constitution limits powers (though in this case, it would be the state constitution at play). It's not just about mob rule.

 

Secondly, absolutely if there's something about the constitution we don't like, there's no reason we should want to follow it. We are thinking rational beings. This is why the people who wrote it left open the option to amend it. Blind submission to authority is a terrible, terrible thing.

[RobertNashville]

If you find the correlation between your brand of authoritarianism and the commie's brand as drawn by Richard so insulting, maybe the solution is to stop acting in a manner that draws such comparisons in the first place?

If stating the trugh forces the comparrison, so be it.

 

I'm getting really tired of so-called "freedom loving" people liking the Constitutin when things go their way but throwing around words like "tyranny" when people use the Constitution in precisely the way it was designed.  I've see real tyranny...99.99% of the people in this country don't have a clue what tyranny actually is.

[tnguy]

The only part of "the" constitution relevant here is really the 10th. Unless I missed the bit about giving congress the power to regulate the length of your grass.

[RichardR]

I've see real tyranny...99.99% of the people in this country don't have a clue what tyranny actually is.

I've seen real freedom ... 99.99% of the people in this country don't have a clue as to what real freedom actually is.

You are comfortable with far more tyranny than I am, that is obvious, and some tyranny is required for a society to exist, however it should be restrained by liberty, strangled by it, only the smallest bit of it should be allowed to exist out of necessity, no more than that.

This nation has seen a reversal of that, now it is our liberty that is restrained, strangled by tyranny, only the smallest bit of liberty, just enough as required to pacify society, is allowed to exist, but even those few remaining liberties under constant threat.

Tyranny is not always iron-fisted & brutal, occasionally it wears a velvet glove and has a light touch, but it is still tyranny just the same.

[Chucktshoes]

If you find the correlation between your brand of authoritarianism and the commie's brand as drawn by Richard so insulting, maybe the solution is to stop acting in a manner that draws such comparisons in the first place?

If stating the trugh forces the comparrison, so be it.

I'm getting really tired of so-called "freedom loving" people liking the Constitutin when things go their way but throwing around words like "tyranny" when people use the Constitution in precisely the way it was designed. I've see real tyranny...99.99% of the people in this country don't have a clue what tyranny actually is.

This is true, and you are apparently one of them. I look at the state of our nation today and I see tyranny and instead of people standing against it on principle, I find folks like you who are only upset that their brand of tyrant isn't in charge.

[RobertNashville]

This is true, and you are apparently one of them. I look at the state of our nation today and I see tyranny and instead of people standing against it on principle, I find folks like you who are only upset that their brand of tyrant isn't in charge.

 

Calling something like zoning laws "tyranny" doesn't make it so any more than calling a horse an ox makes it an ox.

 

What I call tyrannical (and laughable) are people who think they know better how people in Turtle Creek Pennsylvania should live than the people who actually live there...it seems very close to telling people how they should live all the while claiming that only tyrants tell people how they should live.   :rofl:

Edited July 3, 2013 by RobertNashville

[RichardR]

Calling something like zoning laws "tyranny" doesn't make it so any more than calling a horse an ox makes it an ox.

What I call tyrannical (and laughable) are people who think they know better how people in Turtle Creek Pennsylvania should live than the people who actually live there...it seems very close to telling people how they should live all the while claiming that only tyrants tell people how they should live. :rofl:

"A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson.

A neighbor who takes no pride in his property does not "injure" you, your arguement of imaginary harm to the full-potential of your property values vs taking that man's liberty to live as sloppy as he pleases, is a tyranny vs liberty one.

Liberty is priceless & irreplaceable, IMHO people such as yourself should take more care with how quickly they would trample it in the pursuit of a few potential dollars.

[RobertNashville]

"A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson.

A neighbor who takes no pride in his property does not "injure" you, your arguement of imaginary harm to the full-potential of your property values vs taking that man's liberty to live as sloppy as he pleases, is a tyranny vs liberty one.

Liberty is priceless & irreplaceable, IMHO people such as yourself should take more care with how quickly they would trample it in the pursuit of a few potential dollars.

 

Zoning and use laws are much more important than whether someone mows his grass or not and the potential harm to others when such rules are not followed is most definitely an injury, real and quantifiable; your refusal to acknowledge that notwithstanding.

 

You can throw around words like tyranny all you want but you are sounding ridiculous; when people chose to live in communities in close proximity to each other there must be rules...those who don't want to submit to those rules need to seek to change them or live somewhere else and neither those rules nor their choice impact anyone else in any way.

 

Your duplicity is showing...you cry about tyranny but if you could you would tell the people of Turtle Creek, PA how they should live because you don't like their choices.   :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  

 

If you don't like zoning laws your problem is withe the Constitution and with the Supreme Court; the issue was addressed in 1926.

Edited July 3, 2013 by RobertNashville

[RichardR]

I'm not telling anyone how they should live, I'm saying that they shouldn't be so quick to trample liberty, either their own or their neighbors.

Surely that can't be all that difficult to understand.

[JayC]

And IF such an injury takes place and can be proven then there are civil remedies already in place.  I'm happy to tell others how to live, I just don't advocate the use of arms to force them to follow my instructions ;)

 

And yes, it's our place to force government (all levels) to behave, there is nothing wrong with severely restricting government...  Because government doesn't have any natural rights, only those powers the framers gave them hundreds of years ago.  So, by telling Turtle Creek, PA (the government) that they can exert powers not granted to it explicitly by the PA Constitution, in no way shape or form damages the natural rights of the people of Turtle Creek, PA.

 

Zoning and use laws are much more important than whether someone mows his grass or not and the potential harm to others when such rules are not followed is most definitely an injury, real and quantifiable; your refusal to acknowledge that notwithstanding.

 

You can throw around words like tyranny all you want but you are sounding ridiculous; when people chose to live in communities in close proximity to each other there must be rules...those who don't want to submit to those rules need to seek to change them or live somewhere else and neither those rules nor their choice impact anyone else in any way.

 

Your duplicity is showing...you cry about tyranny but if you could you would tell the people of Turtle Creek, PA how they should live because you don't like their choices.   :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  

 

If you don't like zoning laws your problem is withe the Constitution and with the Supreme Court; the issue was addressed in 1926.

 

[tnguy]

Relevant:

 

http://www.noforcedannexation.com/