Weed, fights and guns: Trayvon Martin’s text messages released

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I'm pretty sure this is NOT the take away for HCP carriers, neighborhood watch, and so on. The take away is DO NOT GET INVOLVED or the race baiters will trump up charges against you, withhold evidence, and far outspend you.  I know I will think three times before coming to the aid of another person from now on. Basically, this case killed the Good Samaritan... see someone acting suspicious in your neighborhood?  Better ignore them, or they might jump you and you might be on trial for a 30-year sentence.

 

In the words of defense attorney West in post-trial press conference... this case has been a travesty.

 

Here is a link to the Sanford Neighborhood Watch Manual--  http://www.scribd.com/doc/87073326/NWProgramHandbook

 

Page15, Bullet Item 10

"Remember always that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to report a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police department."

[DaveTN]

Here is a link to the Sanford Neighborhood Watch Manual--

I don’t think Zimmerman was part of that association. He was Captain of his own (group ?) that had its own rules.

 

Seriously though… I don’t think Zimmerman was part of any organized neighborhood watch group. He wasn’t even paid security for the homeowners association. They just told residents to call him after they called the Police. That little screw-up cost them over a million bucks.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I don’t think Zimmerman was part of that association. He was Captain of his own (group ?) that had its own rules.

 

Seriously though… I don’t think Zimmerman was part of any organized neighborhood watch group. He wasn’t even paid security for the homeowners association. They just told residents to call him after they called the Police. That little screw-up cost them over a million bucks.

 

Thanks, was wondering about that. There was at least one witness in the trial saying Z had discussed or received advice from the Sanford department, but found this link of the Sheriffs Assoc denying that Z belonged to their program (I bolded some lines which were not bolded in the original text)--

 

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/news/national-sheriff-s-association-0

 

 

National Sheriff’s Association | Wednesday, March 21, 2012

 

Alexandria, VA – For nearly four decades, the Neighborhood Watch Program (housed within the National Sheriffs’ Association (NSA)) has worked to unite law enforcement agencies, private organizations, and individual citizens in a nation-wide effort to reduce crime and improve local communities.

 

The purpose of the Neighborhood Watch Program is to enable citizens to act as the “eyes and ears” within their community and alert law enforcement immediately when they notice suspicious activity. However, the Neighborhood Watch Program does not in any way, shape, or form advocate citizens to take the law in their own hands. The success of the program has established Neighborhood Watch as the nation’s premier crime prevention and community mobilization program. Visible signs of the program are seen throughout America on street signs, window decals, community block parties and service projects.

 

"The alleged action of a “self-appointed neighborhood watchman” last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program,” stated NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.). “NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program.”

 

“The Neighborhood Watch Program fosters collaboration and cooperation with the community and local law enforcement by encouraging citizens to be aware of what is going on in their communities and contact law enforcement if they suspect something – NOT take the law in their own hands,” continued Executive Director Kennard. “The alleged participant ignored everything the Neighborhood Watch Program stands for and it resulted in a young man losing his life. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of Trayvon Martin during this terrible time.”

 

National Sheriffs’ Association (NSA) is one of the largest associations of law enforcement professionals in the United States, representing more than 3,000 elected sheriffs across the nation, and a total membership of more than 20,000. NSA is a non-profit organization dedicated to raising the level of professionalism among sheriffs, their deputies, and others in the field of criminal justice and public safety. Throughout its seventy-two year history, NSA has served as an information clearinghouse for sheriffs, deputies, chiefs of police, other law enforcement professionals, state governments and the federal government. For more information on the NSA and the Neighborhood Watch Program, please visit www.sheriffs.org.

 

[45guy]

Well if we're gonna play the "what if" game why don't I just stop and question every suspicious person I see? They might do something bad to someone at some point, and according to you I would have ownership in such a tragedy if I didn't intervene.

Hell, I'd have a field day at Walmart on suspicious looking people. In fact, I bet if I went to my local Walmart and "investigated" every suspicious looking cat I saw I wouldn't make it through an hour before I had an altercation on my hands where I'd be justified in using deadly force! But hey, it would all be justified since one of those sketchy characters might do something to someone somewhere, someday, right? I'll just tell the cops to give you a call as they're hauling me away so you can explain that logic.

Well If you lived in Walmart I could see your point. I was talking about your neighbors and your neighborhood. If Using a ridicules analogy helps you feel better fine. Stick your head in the sand and as long as nobody comes after you you're good. Glad I am not your neighbor.

[eRay]

The only opinion that is worth a diddly squat is the 6 people on that jury and they have spoken.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

So there can no longer be a concerned citizen without this kind of backlash? If one of my neighbors is having

problem with rats, I'm going to give him some rat poison if he or she needs it. If someone is getting the Hell

beat out of him for no apparent cause, I'm going to call 911 and then try to stop the beating. If there is nothing

I can do, I will do nothing.

 

Yeh, just take one case like this to an extreme and apply it to everything in life, if that's how you feel. This verdict

will not change my approach to life, so you guys who think this will are looking at things through kaleidoscope

eyes.

 

There is no law or rule that requires someone to be paid or to be a member of Neighborhood Watch program

to look after his property or his neighbors, as long as he doesn't violate any other law. Asking someone who

they are or asking him what he is doing is not illegal, nor is following him. You keep comparing his conduct to

some police force and their responsibility when he isn't one. I submit to you the reason people do these things

is because of a police officer's ability or requirement to act, in the first place. The individual is the first line of

defense against crime because a cop can't be everywhere all the time, nor is he required to act.

 

That is no argument for what Zimmerman was charged, and it proved to be wrong anyway.

Edited July 14, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[Guest Lester Weevils]

So there can no longer be a concerned citizen without this kind of backlash? If one of my neighbors is having

problem with rats, I'm going to give him some rat poison if he or she needs it. If someone is getting the Hell

beat out of him for no apparent cause, I'm going to call 911 and then try to stop the beating. If there is nothing

I can do, I will do nothing.

 

Yeh, just take one case like this to an extreme and apply it to everything in life, if that's how you feel. This verdict

will not change my approach to life, so you guys who think this will are looking at things through kaleidoscope

eyes.

 

There is no law or rule that requires someone to be paid or to be a member of Neighborhood Watch program

to look after his property or his neighbors, as long as he doesn't violate any other law. Asking someone who

they are or asking him what he is doing is not illegal, nor is following him. You keep comparing his conduct to

some police force and their responsibility when he isn't one. I submit to you the reason people do these things

is because of a police officer's ability or requirement to act, in the first place. The individual is the first line of

defense against crime because a cop can't be everywhere all the time, nor is he required to act.

 

That is no argument for what Zimmerman was charged, and it proved to be wrong anyway.

 

Well, as in everything in life, ya pays yer money and takes yer chances. Jgradyc and many others have said that this case is the death knell for neighborhood watch, but neighborhood watch says "don't do that" and claims to have always advised "don't do that". There seems to be a little bit of trademark protection going on as well. If you want to do what Z did, then don't call it neighborhood watch. Call it something else because neighborhood watch don't want to have anything to do with it.

 

I'm not a joiner, and purty much follow my own advice (though will research a topic to death). So its no deal to me if people want to pay their money and take their chances, but maybe they ought not call it "neighborhood watch". :)

[Worriedman]

 So its no deal to me if people want to pay their money and take their chances, but maybe they ought not call it "neighborhood watch". :)

 

Aren't criminals, and their activities what initiated the need, and spawned "neighborhood watch" programs?

Big deal in our area is vehicle pulls up to your house middle of the afternoon, when most people are at work.  Some one gets out, knocks on front door. some one answers, BS question and off they go to the next place.  If no response they go around to the back, kick the door and make off with goodies.

Just last Tuesday, car pull into my driveway, magnetic stickers proclaiming a national insurance chain on the door. Guy goes to the front door, and knocks, takes out a camera and takes a picture and heads around back.  Meets the wife and her 20 gauge and hops in the car and off he goes.  She had just finished an hour long IV infusion and was where she could see him walking around the house, and decided to arm herself and ease out the back door.  She called it in, 18 minutes for an officer to arrive.  Our officer from across the street was up the hill in 2.  2 minutes is a long time if something is going wrong.

Think the guy had good intentions?

I personally see a need for neighborhood watch.

[eRay]

I went to look at a foreclosed property that was up for auction last month. A neighbor walked down to the road and inquired as to what I was doing there. I calmly informed him that I was there to look at a piece of property that was for sale. Once he saw that I was there for a legal purpose, he filled me in on all the details of the property and the neighborhood. I did not punch him in the nose or beat his head on the sidewalk. In return, he did not shoot me. We both parted on friendly terms. If Trayvon Martin had been my son, I would have taught him the proper way to interact with others.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Eray

[DaveS]

I don’t think Zimmerman was part of that association. He was Captain of his own (group ?) that had its own rules.

 

Seriously though… I don’t think Zimmerman was part of any organized neighborhood watch group. He wasn’t even paid security for the homeowners association. They just told residents to call him after they called the Police. That little screw-up cost them over a million bucks.

 

I don’t think Zimmerman was part of that association. He was Captain of his own (group ?) that had its own rules.

 

Seriously though… I don’t think Zimmerman was part of any organized neighborhood watch group. He wasn’t even paid security for the homeowners association. They just told residents to call him after they called the Police. That little screw-up cost them over a million bucks.

Dave; every thing I could find says he was the Captain of a group in which he was the only member. Very impressive indeed!

 

DaveS

[DaveS]

Later Guys, Gals and the undecided. Better things are calling out for me!

 

Dave Seyr

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Maybe some of you will call this guy an "Uncle Tom", but he probably speaks for more blacks than you would

care to admit, other than Jesse and Al. Just listen to what he has to say before you decide to argue about how

much of the victim TM was.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqRN0WqQYmQ

 

And this about racial profiling from the same black guy, who I think has his head on very straight. I can't think of

much else to say because this guy says it very well.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syGKFW9pre8

Edited July 15, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[Guest nra37922]

Wonder if Trayvon was carrying around the the BS attitude of 'ain't nobody going to diss me' as well as the racial 'chip on the shoulder' syndrome?  Factors that we'll never know or would see light of day.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Aren't criminals, and their activities what initiated the need, and spawned "neighborhood watch" programs?

Big deal in our area is vehicle pulls up to your house middle of the afternoon, when most people are at work.  Some one gets out, knocks on front door. some one answers, BS question and off they go to the next place.  If no response they go around to the back, kick the door and make off with goodies.

Just last Tuesday, car pull into my driveway, magnetic stickers proclaiming a national insurance chain on the door. Guy goes to the front door, and knocks, takes out a camera and takes a picture and heads around back.  Meets the wife and her 20 gauge and hops in the car and off he goes.  She had just finished an hour long IV infusion and was where she could see him walking around the house, and decided to arm herself and ease out the back door.  She called it in, 18 minutes for an officer to arrive.  Our officer from across the street was up the hill in 2.  2 minutes is a long time if something is going wrong.

Think the guy had good intentions?

I personally see a need for neighborhood watch.

 

I don't diss neighborhood watches. The only reason my little podunk area doesn't have an official neighborhood watch is that the crime level lately is so ridiculously low it doesn't exist. If the crime level in my little street were to tick up, maybe there would be more "official organization". But that doesn't mean people don't keep an eye out.

 

Just sayin-- By analogy-- You don't have to belong to NRA or take NRA sanctioned training to be a gun owner. On the other hand, NRA is an excellent source of information, training and organization. If you wanted to offer firearms training, then you wouldn't want to call it NRA training unless it was affiliated with the NRA and followed NRA guidelines. You could call it bubba's firearms training or anything else, but NRA don't want you to use their name unless you follow their plan and are affiliated.

 

Same deal, if you want to recruit a bunch of boys and start a scouting program, then call it whatever you like, but don't call it boy scouts unless you are affiliated and follow that org's guidelines.

 

If my neighborhood starts a neighborhood watch, maybe we would just call it bubba's self-service security and make all the rules up as we go along. On the other hand, maybe the training and organization from Neighborhood Watch would be useful, to get a solid turnkey program from people with years of practical experience.

 

Just sayin, the zimmerman case has NO IMPACT on the practicality of a neighborhood watch program, because that organization doesn't want you to do what zimmerman did, and they don't want you if you plan to do what zimmerman did.

 

Simple enough?

[Wiljo05]

If this has already been posted sorry...see what the statement from the White House says.

SANFORD, FL (RNN) – President Obama released a statement a day after George Zimmerman was found not guilty in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

"The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin."

REDICULOUS

[rugerla1]

^^^ Typical BS from him. Sickening!!

[Oh Shoot]

If this has already been posted sorry...see what the statement from the White House says.

SANFORD, FL (RNN) – President Obama released a statement a day after George Zimmerman was found not guilty in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

"The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin."

REDICULOUS

 

^^^ Typical BS from him. Sickening!!

 

Yeah, I used it as example of the Canonization of Saint Trayvon:

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/67801-what-now-for-zimmerman/page-2#entry999718

 

Crump also putting him on the pedestal too:

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/67787-the-poison-and-the-politics-of-al-sharpton/#entry999249

 

I 'spect if Trayvon had been Catholic, the Pope would have friggin chimed in by now too.

 

- OS

[RobertNashville]

Dave; every thing I could find says he was the Captain of a group in which he was the only member. Very impressive indeed!

DaveS

You really didn't listen to any of the testimony or review any of the evidence did you?

That issue is covered in detail - and you are simply wrong.

[Chucktshoes]

Dave; every thing I could find says he was the Captain of a group in which he was the only member. Very impressive indeed!


DaveS

You really didn't listen to any of the testimony or review any of the evidence did you?


That issue is covered in detail - and you are simply wrong.

Robert, I believe the term you're looking for is cognitive dissonance.

[mikegideon]

You really didn't listen to any of the testimony or review any of the evidence did you?

That issue is covered in detail - and you are simply wrong.

 

None of the Hoodie Packers I've heard from paid any attention to the trial. Don't know where they got their info, but they're wrong, and proud of it.

[Oh Shoot]

Robert, I believe the term you're looking for is cognitive dissonance.

 

Very good. Specifically, trying to juggle pre-existing belief with compelling contrary information.

 

- OS

Edited July 15, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Kinda like the way I view my "junk". :squint: :rofl:

[RobertNashville]

Robert, I believe the term you're looking for is cognitive dissonance.

I suppose that's as good of an explanation as any.

 

I can understand differences of opinion...but complete refusal to acknowledge known facts is a skill I've not developed and don't want to.

[Guest Charis]

I don’t think Zimmerman was part of that association. He was Captain of his own (group ?) that had its own rules.

 

Seriously though… I don’t think Zimmerman was part of any organized neighborhood watch group. He wasn’t even paid security for the homeowners association. They just told residents to call him after they called the Police. That little screw-up cost them over a million bucks.

 

You should probably inform the nice lady from the NW that got on the stand and gave glowing reports of how great GZ was, explained that she would NEVER tell a member not to carry their legal firearm, it's a constitutional right, offered GZ a HIGHER position in the organization complete with uniform car and flashing lights, said that what was described to her sounded like "suspicious" behavior and she too would have called on TM, and that GZ did nothing wrong at all by trying to keep TM in sight, especially since Dispatch was asking him to do that with the repeated statements of "tell me if he does anything else" and "which way did he go" even after GZ said TM was running and couldn't be seen anymore.

 

She seems to be of the belief that GZ was in fact a real member, and real captian, and doing a damn fine job.

 

 

Thanks, was wondering about that. There was at least one witness in the trial saying Z had discussed or received advice from the Sanford department, but found this link of the Sheriffs Assoc denying that Z belonged to their program (I bolded some lines which were not bolded in the original text)--

 

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/news/national-sheriff-s-association-0

 

Nice bout of CYOA going on there if you ask me, see above.

[MattCary]

The NW coordinator from the Sanford PD testified in the trial, in case anyone is interested in more than mere speculation on the subject.