Weed, fights and guns: Trayvon Martin’s text messages released

[Garufa]

No it isn’t. I have zero concerns about my ability to defend myself being impacted by this trial or verdict.

 

Did you move to TN thinking this absurd condemnation of self-defense would not ever happen here?

[JayC]

I suspect some folks will be eating crow tomorrow...  GZ was found not guilty of all charges ;)

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I suspect some folks will be eating crow tomorrow...  GZ was found not guilty of all charges ;)

 

Dunno how realistic that would be. How many people, previously convinced that OJ was guilty, overnight changed their minds and agreed that OJ had been innocent all along, after OJ got his not guilty verdict?

Edited July 14, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[KKing]

Justice, has been served

[RobertNashville]

Did you move to TN thinking this absurd condemnation of self-defense would not ever happen here?

I think one of the most important segments for me of Massad Ayoob's "Rules of Engagement for The Armed Citizen" training is that anyone who uses deadly force to defend him/her self should understand that what we saw happen to George Zimmerman CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE.

 

There are simply times when, no matter the facts...no matter how obviously justified and righteous the use of self defense deadly force way, you will be charged anyway and be fighting for you life a second time and can even be convicted.  Maybe...MAYBE it's a little less likely to happen here in Tennessee than some other state but anyone who thinks it can't happen here is truly deluding themselves.

I think anyone who has a firearm in their home for SD and especially anyone who carries a firearm in public needs to come to grips with that or we probably should just keep our guns in the safe and just enjoy having them/shooting them at paper targets or clay pigeons.

 

 

I'm happy for George Zimmerman...once I saw the facts there was zero doubt in my mind that he was not guilty...it's just too bad that he had to go through a trial to establish what he original DA already knew some 18 months ago. The system worked this time...may we all be as fortunate should be ever be unfortunate enough to have to take another person's life in defense of our own.

Edited July 14, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Links2k]

Dunno how realistic that would be. How many people, previously convinced that OJ was guilty, overnight changed their minds and agreed that OJ had been innocent all along, after OJ got his not guilty verdict?

I believe that OJ and Zimmermann got away with murder. Just how things go.

[RobertNashville]

I suspect some folks will be eating crow tomorrow...  GZ was found not guilty of all charges ;)

No...they won't...they'll be doing what I just saw the prosecution do on Fox news a few minutes ago; trying to retry the case with the same old, innuendo, lying witnesses, stupid witnesses, expert witnesses who should return their paycheck out of shame for doing such a poor job and pictures of 12 year old Trayvon.

 

There are always those who refuse to be confused by facts and evidence.

Edited July 14, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I believe that OJ and Zimmermann got away with murder. Just how things go.

 

Well, if they coulda proved it to the jury's satisfaction, it is purt certain OJ infringed a law or two here and there. After all, OJ searched every resort and golf course for years afterward, looking for the real killer, but unfortunately OJ never looked in the mirror and the real killer got away. :)

 

There was a lack of evidence in the Z case as well. However, even with perfect evidence-- I'm not aware that they ever wrote a specific law regulating the behavior of severely retarded amateur barney fifes. :)

 

I wasn't rooting for his conviction, but kinda surprised they couldn't figure out a way to hang Z on something or t'other. Maybe Eric Holder can figger something out. Maybe Z made a mistake on his taxes or stepped on an environmentally protected cockroach or something.

 

I just can't be pleased. Would have been unhappy if they got him on Murder 2 or manslaughter, but am kinda surprised he gets no punishment for being such a dumbass.

 

I hope Z takes his lawyer's advice and keeps his mouth shut from now on. He don't need to go on Hannity talking about the will of god anytime soon. That is the job of the Pope or L Ron Hubbard. :)

[Guest Lester Weevils]

But I meant to add, even though I thought Z deserves SOME kind of conviction, even jaywalking, it does my soul good to see Nancy Grace, Al Sharpton, and the whole MSNBC staff so butt-hurt. There is a silver lining to everything. :)

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't understand the desire to see someone convicted when there was no evidence to show guilt, except what

the media conjured up. I thought one was innocent until proven guilty in this country. No proof was given. No bit

of evidence was given to make one believe this could have been anything other than the result it ended in. If some

wish to rush to judgement in a case like this, I hope none of you are on a jury against me, if that ever happened.

 

All emotional judgement should be dropped by the same reason because if you start judging based on your emotions,

you disqualify yourself and justice can't prevail. It's the reason we have laws, that which I think we already have

too many of already.

 

Think about it like this. The government has so many laws to incriminate you. Do you want to cheer the government

on over a contrived conviction, especially something that was completely legal the month previous? How will you feel

when the IRS takes everything you have when you can't afford your Obamacare annual payment, which are taxes?

And they don't have to take you to court to do it. Cheer them on!

 

Justice isn't always going to show up, but when it does get it right, you might consider being glad of it, instead of

letting some media source twist and tug your emotions away from reason.

 

Innocent until proven guilty. Innocence was allowed to stand because there was no evidence the prosecution could

use to prove guilt.

 

Some of us around here must really believe in mob rule. Vote it in some more and see how much you like

it.

Edited July 14, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi 6.8

 

The same admin that sold weapons to drug lords, refused to prosecute the NBP voter intimidation, spies on our communications, and uses the IRS as a political weapon, should keep its nose out of the Z case, but you know they won't. They are most likely planning it over brunch this morning. Thats what I was referring to.

 

I'm cool with a not guilty verdict on the two charges. Just surprised that particular jury delivered a not guilty verdict after that particular trial. Mostly expected some kind of hung jury, or worse.

 

I do think that two people acted irresponsibly that night, and perhaps by now both have paid enough, or more than enough for their irresponsible actions. Murder or manslaughter just isn't quite the right law, or alternately there was lack of evidence. The state has experts who supposedly know the law, so if those two laws were not the right ones, and they thought those were the easiest ones to charge, then unless they are crazy stupid incompetent, maybe there ain't no law governing Z's incompetent lack of judgement? I'm cool with that too. It is just surprising. Not even jaywalking? Discharging a firearm within city limits? Trash pickup charges? Something?

 

Because as we all know, if Z had not noticed M that night, then M would have grown up to be a world famous brain surgeon and novelist, before being elected president, to finally spend decades of his doddering years the most respected of supreme court jurists. On the other hand, Z would have just got his butt kicked by some other pissed-off high school football player the very next week. It is possible that I'm joking on some of these matters. :)

Edited July 14, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Lester, I think they both did stupid acts, also. Just that one went to the threshold of breaking the law. The stupid

part is only stupid. As far as the government acting stupidly, borrowing from a famous quote by our second black

President, they pass the threshold of illegality each and every day. Each should be judged the same way, but we

don't do that, do we? It's much easier to pick apart a situation like this than to see what the government does

every day and acknowledge it being illegal. We also must realize that the government's actions are part and

parcel to the problem with this case.

 

We get bogged down in this kind of stuff while our government marches on and gets bigger each day. Kinda

backwards to fixing the problem.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Lester, I think they both did stupid acts, also. Just that one went to the threshold of breaking the law. The stupid

part is only stupid. As far as the government acting stupidly, borrowing from a famous quote by our second black

President, they pass the threshold of illegality each and every day. Each should be judged the same way, but we

don't do that, do we? It's much easier to pick apart a situation like this than to see what the government does

every day and acknowledge it being illegal. We also must realize that the government's actions are part and

parcel to the problem with this case.

 

We get bogged down in this kind of stuff while our government marches on and gets bigger each day. Kinda

backwards to fixing the problem.

 

That be true. There seems epidemic lack of judgment as well as likely-lawbreaking in the halls of government, for many years. Bad judgement by both Greenspan and Bernanke (Volcker may have been a relatively good egg). Bad judgment and/or skirting of law by both Chertoff and Big Sis. Bad judgement by both Bush and Obama, Cheney and Biden, Gonzalez and Holder, Powell, Rice, Hillary and Kerry, yadda yadda.

 

But it is "OK" and near universal to have feelings of injustice being done, even if every act is entirely legal, every i dotted and every t crossed.

 

For instance, if the railroad screwed you out of your pension, ENTIRELY LEGALLY, FOLLOWING EVERY RELEVANT LAW, you would still have every reason to feel more than a tad aggrieved about the situation, even if you were forced to admit they broke no law.

 

Something went way wrong with the Z and M affair, not a happy ending at all. It is entirely reasonable for some folks to be bummed about that, even if they were to admit that no laws were broken, and can't quite explain what should have been done different. Bad things happen all the time, but even if bad things are entirely legal, doesn't mean they are just.

[45guy]

Still makes no difference. These are all Florida Statutes and State Level court decisions. This is going Federal.

If it makes any of you feel any better Z's life will never be the same. He will pay for his choices for the rest of his life, always looking over his shoulder, never at peace. I doubt he will ever be able to pay for his legal expenses as it is more less those in the future. Maybe you get some satisfaction from that, I don't. Some say the system worked, I say no it didn't. Charges that should have never been filled were, that tells me the system did not work. Yea Z was Found not guilty but in the court of public opinion he has been ruined. If he were to try and cash in, who would promote him. I cannot see anybody other than some conservative media folks allowing him to promote whatever he is trying to sell. Can you see him going on a job interview? How is he supposed to provide for his family now? I would contribute to a Z fund or buy his book just because I feel bad that his life has been ruined. If it gives some of you satisfaction that his life has been ruined, I truly feel sorry for you as well. Edited July 14, 2013 by 45guy

[TMF]

If it makes any of you feel any better Z's life will never be the same. He will pay for his choices for the rest of his life, always looking over his shoulder, never at peace. I doubt he will ever be able to pay for his legal expenses as it is more less those in the future. Maybe you get some satisfaction from that, I don't. Some say the system worked, I say no it didn't. Charges that should have never been filled were, that tells me the system did not work. Yea Z was Found not guilty but in the court of public opinion he has been ruined. If he were to try and cash in, who would promote him. I cannot see anybody other than some conservative media folks allowing him to promote whatever he is trying to sell. Can you see him going on a job interview? How is he supposed to provide for his family now? I would contribute to a Z fund or buy his book just because I feel bad that his life has been ruined. If it gives some of you satisfaction that his life has been ruined, I truly feel sorry for you as well.

We all make decisions in life. I've probably been in Zimmerman's shoes half a dozen times when I lived in a downtown apartment only a stones throw away from several bars. I called the police more than once to report fights and vandalism. I guess I coulda injected myself into the situation, but no way would I do it unarmed since I wouldn't know what kind of violence I'd be stepping into. This leads to the obvious risk assessment analysis of possibly having to use my weapon to defend myself and deal with all the crap that goes with that.

I obviously made good decisions and didn't have my life turned upside down. Zimmerman did not make such good decisions and now he has to deal with the consequences. I hope people learned a lesson from all this. I'd feel bad for him, but he is a damned fool, and I don't expend sympathy for fools.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'm not empathetic for either, just wanted to see justice follow it's course. Those who would wish for more are

wasting their time worrying over little things.

[45guy]

We all make decisions in life. I've probably been in Zimmerman's shoes half a dozen times when I lived in a downtown apartment only a stones throw away from several bars. I called the police more than once to report fights and vandalism. I guess I coulda injected myself into the situation, but no way would I do it unarmed since I wouldn't know what kind of violence I'd be stepping into. This leads to the obvious risk assessment analysis of possibly having to use my weapon to defend myself and deal with all the crap that goes with that.

I obviously made good decisions and didn't have my life turned upside down. Zimmerman did not make such good decisions and now he has to deal with the consequences. I hope people learned a lesson from all this. I'd feel bad for him, but he is a damned fool, and I don't expend sympathy for fools.

He probably thought he was doing what was expected of him as community watch leader. If you think getting out of his truck makes him a fool then that's your call, I do not. I do not know Z so I cannot say he is a fool, nor do I know TM so the same applies. Hopefully you never make a call that thousands of people will dissect every little move you made and determine what a fool you are.

[TMF]

He probably thought he was doing what was expected of him as community watch leader. If you think getting out of his truck makes him a fool then that's your call, I do not. I do not know Z so I cannot say he is a fool, nor do I know TM so the same applies. Hopefully you never make a call that thousands of people will dissect every little move you made and determine what a fool you are.

They won't. I won't be unassing my truck to follow someone I thought was suspicious and on drugs.

[45guy]

They won't. I won't be unassing my truck to follow someone I thought was suspicious and on drugs.

Good for you. If that person goes on to break into someone's house and kills them you can feel real good about nobody saying what you did or did not do was wrong. I am sure your neighbors feel good knowing you will do everything possible to help them as long as you do not have to get out of your truck. Edited July 14, 2013 by 45guy

[TMF]

Good for you. If that person goes on to break into someone's house and kills them you can feel real good about nobody saying what you did or did not do was wrong. I am sure your neighbors feel good knowing you will do everything possible to help them as long as you do not have to get out of your truck.

Well if we're gonna play the "what if" game why don't I just stop and question every suspicious person I see? They might do something bad to someone at some point, and according to you I would have ownership in such a tragedy if I didn't intervene.

Hell, I'd have a field day at Walmart on suspicious looking people. In fact, I bet if I went to my local Walmart and "investigated" every suspicious looking cat I saw I wouldn't make it through an hour before I had an altercation on my hands where I'd be justified in using deadly force! But hey, it would all be justified since one of those sketchy characters might do something to someone somewhere, someday, right? I'll just tell the cops to give you a call as they're hauling me away so you can explain that logic.

[DaveTN]

Good for you. If that person goes on to break into someone's house and kills them you can feel real good about nobody saying what you did or did not do was wrong. I am sure your neighbors feel good knowing you will do everything possible to help them as long as you do not have to get out of your truck.

He was walking down the sidewalk drinking tea and eating skittles; not prowling around houses. Let’s remove all terry stop rules. Cops need absolutely no reason (other than they don’t know you) to stop you and check you out. Does that sound right? Where was George Zimmerman’s RAS, PC or authority to stop anyone? Especially after they tried to get away from him?

[Guest nra37922]

He was walking down the sidewalk drinking tea and eating skittles; not prowling around houses. Let’s remove all terry stop rules. Cops need absolutely no reason (other than they don’t know you) to stop you and check you out. Does that sound right? Where was George Zimmerman’s RAS, PC or authority to stop anyone? Especially after they tried to get away from him?

Make up 'facts' to suit ones opinion are we?  Trial is over, jury listened to ALL the evidence and decided NOT GUILTY.  Deal with it and quit twisting what happened, or was presented by the prosecution, to fit your opinion.

[DaveTN]

Make up 'facts' to suit ones opinion are we?  Trial is over, jury listened to ALL the evidence and decided NOT GUILTY.  Deal with it and quit twisting what happened, or was presented by the prosecution, to fit your opinion.

I don’t have anything to deal with; I have already admitted I was wrong.

 

I was also wrong when I told co-workers during the Rodney King cops state trial that the cops would be going to prison.

 

I was wrong when I said OJ killed his wife.

 

I’m not twisting anything. Let’s take off the gloves and allow anyone that looks suspicious to be stopped by anyone… cops, citizens, security guards, or even one man “neighborhood watch” captains. That pesky RAS, and PC non-sense is always getting in the way anyway. I mean… what could possibly go wrong?

[jgradyc]

I’m not twisting anything. Let’s take off the gloves and allow anyone that looks suspicious to be stopped by anyone… cops, citizens, security guards, or even one man “neighborhood watch” captains. That pesky RAS, and PC non-sense is always getting in the way anyway. I mean… what could possibly go wrong?

I'm pretty sure this is NOT the take away for HCP carriers, neighborhood watch, and so on. The take away is DO NOT GET INVOLVED or the race baiters will trump up charges against you, withhold evidence, and far outspend you.  I know I will think three times before coming to the aid of another person from now on. Basically, this case killed the Good Samaritan... see someone acting suspicious in your neighborhood?  Better ignore them, or they might jump you and you might be on trial for a 30-year sentence.

 

In the words of defense attorney West in post-trial press conference... this case has been a travesty.

[DaveTN]

In the words of defense attorney West in post-trial press conference... this case has been a travesty.

I agree with his assessment. But I think we have very different reasons.