Weed, fights and guns: Trayvon Martin’s text messages released

[mikegideon]

You can count on the media to promote rioting to the best of their ability.

[DaveS]

Check this article out....

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/08/Broward-county-sheriff-riots

 

Dave

[Joseg]

Looks like Defense has wrapped it up.. maybe a verdict by next week..

 

Maybe not yet.. 

Edited July 9, 2013 by Joseg

[DaveS]

The Defense needs to pull sus scrofa off the video screen as he/she/it is blowing it!

 

Dave

[RobertNashville]

Looks like Defense has wrapped it up.. maybe a verdict by next week.. 

Hard to say how long it will take them to reach a verdict...I suppose if they go into the jury room already thinking the same thing it won't take long...if you have some for acquittal, some for Murder 2 and some for manslaughter it could take a long while or a hung jury.

[DaveS]

Hard to say how long it will take them to reach a verdict...I suppose if they go into the jury room already thinking the same thing it won't take long...if you have some for acquittal, some for Murder 2 and some for manslaughter it could take a long while or a hung jury.

 

Hard to say how long it will take them to reach a verdict...I suppose if they go into the jury room already thinking the same thing it won't take long...if you have some for acquittal, some for Murder 2 and some for manslaughter it could take a long while or a hung jury.

I agree Robert. At this point I hesitate to say Zman is innocent (although I'm leaning that way), He damn sure ain't guilty of murder 2. I really want him to get put on the stand!

 

Dave

[JAB]

We can all see what Zimmerman did right and wrong (and no, I'm not talking about the ridiculous "should have stayed in his truck" mantra) and learn from it.

 

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it ridiculous.  In fact, I'll say it, again.  He should have stayed in his truck.

 

That said, he didn't and the subsequent events happened.  Such being the case, I agree that this trial will have long-standing repercussions.  I will go on record here to say that, while I do not think Zimmerman is 'blameless' in the situation, while I do believe that he made some bad and/or questionable decisions without which the whole fiasco could have been avoided and while I further do not believe it behooves us, as gun owners/carriers to try and hold him up as a bastion of reasonable behavior or a poster boy for handgun carry, I certainly do hope that he is found 'not guilty' of any criminal charges and that there is not even a door left open for a civil suit.  If he is found 'guilty', I fear that it will set a precedent for filing charges against anyone who uses a handgun in self defense even if that person's behavior leading up to the shooting event is in no way 'questionable'.

Edited July 9, 2013 by JAB

[Guest Bonedaddy]

That "precedent" is zakly what I fear. As stated in many another thread, we already have enough problems with "some" of our LE out there with a lack of common sense and good judgement. A new precedent would just give'm a mean boner.

[RobertNashville]

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it ridiculous.  In fact, I'll say it, again.  He should have stayed in his truck.

 

That said, he didn't and the subsequent events happened.  Such being the case, I agree that this trial will have long-standing repercussions.  I will go on record here to say that, while I do not think Zimmerman is 'blameless' in the situation, while I do believe that he made some bad and/or questionable decisions without which the whole fiasco could have been avoided and while I further do not believe it behooves us, as gun owners/carriers to try and hold him up as a bastion of reasonable behavior or a poster boy for handgun carry, I certainly do hope that he is found 'not guilty' of any criminal charges and that there is not even a door left open for a civil suit.  If he is found 'guilty', I fear that it will set a precedent for filing charges against anyone who uses a handgun in self defense even if that person's behavior leading up to the shooting event is in no way 'questionable'.

I say it's ridiculous because it seems to me that the underlying assertion is that that staying in his truck would automatically have prevented any altercation and there is simply no way on God's green earth that you, me or anyone else today can know that.

 

Would it have been better if he had stayed in his truck?  Maybe; that's all anyone can say without delving into the land of free-flowing assumptions.

 

Edited July 9, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest nra37922]

And cannot it be said that TM wouldn't be a dead wantabe hood IF he had gone home instead of confronting GZ?  If I was laying bets my money would be on the old 'chip on the shoulder, I was being disrespected' BS is what ultimately killed TM.

Edited July 9, 2013 by nra37922

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I say it's ridiculous because it seems to me that the underlying assertion is that that staying in his truck would automatically have prevented any altercation and there is simply no way on God's green earth that you, me or anyone else today can know that.

 

Would it have been better if he had stayed in his truck?  Maybe...and that's all anyone can say without delving into the land of free-flowing assumptions.

 

 

Anything in what-if land is a wild guess, but there were apparently quite a lot of folks outside that night at least temporarily, walking from one place to the other in the rain, and TM wasn't so wonked out that he randomly attacked any of those other targets of opportunity, many of whom were probably easier targets than even the Z-man, kids, little old ladies, etc.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[JAB]

I say it's ridiculous because it seems to me that the underlying assertion is that that staying in his truck would automatically have prevented any altercation and there is simply no way on God's green earth that you, me or anyone else today can know that.

 

Would it have been better if he had stayed in his truck?  Maybe; that's all anyone can say without delving into the land of free-flowing assumptions.

 

 

Kinda hard to beat someone's head against the grass, pavement or anything else if they are sitting inside a vehicle so, yeah, I think it is safe to say that if he had stayed in his vehicle then chances are that the altercation would not have happened.  Even if it had happened, there would certainly be no room to question Zimmerman's actions.  "Zimmerman shot Martin after Martin pulled Zimmerman from his vehicle and began beating him," is a whole lot more clear cut than, "Armed man shoots teen after getting out of his vehicle and following the teen on foot."

 

Now, if you want to talk ridiculous then we can talk ridiculous.  It is claimed that Martin went home and then came back.  I have also seen claims in this thread that Zimmerman was not following Martin but only got out of his vehicle to check the street signs.  Talk about ridiculous.  If that were true, it would mean that:

 

1. Zimmerman, as captain of a neighborhood watch in what sounds like a fairly small, gated community didn't know the names of the streets that he would have regularly patrolled?  Sounds fishy.

 

2. The house where Martin was staying was approximately 50 yards from where the attack happened.  So, in the time it took Zimmerman to exit his vehicle, look at a street sign and start back to his vehicle (which would take, what, five or ten seconds?) Martin had time to travel a total of 100 yards on foot, pausing to talk on his cell phone along the way?  Wow, someone should have gotten Trayvon onto a track team and on a path to the Olympics - or gave him a red costume with a yellow lightning bolt and a mask with wings.

 

But, yeah, we can at least agree that it would have been better if Zimmerman had stayed in his truck because then at least there wouldn't have been any doubt about his actions leading up to the shooting.  While I know that no one can know for sure, in that case I seriously doubt this would ever have gone to trial.  In fact, it probably wouldn't even have been on the national news for more than a day or two, if that.  Heck, there is a good chance it would have been a local news story for a week or so and then forgotten.

Edited July 9, 2013 by JAB

[eRay]

Kinda hard to beat someone's head against the grass, pavement or anything else if they are sitting inside a vehicle so, yeah, I think it is safe to say that if he had stayed in his vehicle then chances are that the altercation would not have happened.  Even if it had happened, there would certainly be no room to question Zimmerman's actions.  "Zimmerman shot Martin after Martin pulled Zimmerman from his vehicle and began beating him," is a whole lot more clear cut than, "Armed man shoots teen after getting out of his vehicle and following the teen on foot."

 

We would probably all be safer if we stayed in our trucks all the time. That said, I still get out of mine on occasion and I do not want anyone beating my head on the ground if I get out. I will shoot you.

[Guest nra37922]

SO so much easier and safer to let someone else take the responsibility for anything.  Hell its not my house, so screw the neighbor, neighborhood, etc., so why don't I just go home and pretend nothing bad could possibly be going on?  Maybe catch a little MSNBC or The View....

[JAB]

SO so much easier and safer to let someone else take the responsibility for anything.  Hell its not my house, so screw the neighbor, neighborhood, etc., so why don't I just go home and pretend nothing bad could possibly be going on?  Maybe catch a little MSNBC or The View....

 

Did Zimmerman witness Martin doing anything illegal before exiting his vehicle?  Did Zimmerman witness Martin threatening anyone before exiting his vehicle?  If not then his 'responsibility' wass to call the cops, make a good report and let them handle things from there.

[JAB]

We would probably all be safer if we stayed in our trucks all the time. That said, I still get out of mine on occasion and I do not want anyone beating my head on the ground if I get out. I will shoot you.

 

Oh, sure, let's pretend that Zimmerman just got out of his vehicle to take a little stroll in the rain.  Yeah, okay.

 

And if I am just walking along, minding my own business and some stranger gets out of his vehicle and follows me home there is a good chance I will start feeling like I am in imminent danger.  At that point, being that I am not doing anything illegal and am in a place I am legally allowed to be, I just might have to stand my ground.  Would I attack them without any further provocation?  No, but depending on their actions after that (as in reaching for a gun, etc.) it just might not be me who gets shot.  I guess I just have to hope that the person following me took a picture where he was flipping off the camera at some point so that I can have conclusive proof, after the fact, that he was as bad as Al Capone, Jeffrey Dahmer and Jason Vorhees all rolled into one.

Edited July 9, 2013 by JAB

[mikegideon]

I agree Robert. At this point I hesitate to say Zman is innocent (although I'm leaning that way), He damn sure ain't guilty of murder 2. I really want him to get put on the stand!

 

Dave

 

Are you saying you're not gonna join in the riots?  :rofl: You're probably too old to run down the street with a big TV :)

[JAB]

Are you saying you're not gonna join in the riots?

 

Now here is something on which I think we can all agree.  I really don't understand the attitude that says, "I am so damned mad and I am not gonna take it anymore.  We'll show them - we'll destroy our own neighborhood."

 

Maybe it goes something along the lines of:  "I need me a bigger TV with clearer high def so I can keep up with all the injustices on the news better."

 

Or maybe, "That a-hole murdered some kid I didn't know and got away with it!  I'm gonna get some payback - by stealing a stereo from some guy who never even met either of them!"

Edited July 9, 2013 by JAB

[mikegideon]

Did Zimmerman witness Martin doing anything illegal before exiting his vehicle?  Did Zimmerman witness Martin threatening anyone before exiting his vehicle?  If not then his 'responsibility' wass to call the cops, make a good report and let them handle things from there.

 

Keeping track of his location was part of the report. Bear in mind that Z had been down this road a number of times. Call the cops and report, cops show up, thug is gone. We can all question his wisdom now. But, I've also thought a lot about what I would have done in his shoes. Keeping him in sight is not the same as confronting him. Letting him slip away, though, is something that had happened several times in the past. Would you change your tactics after several failed attempts?

[raydog1]

if you are missing the pathologists testimony you really are missing a gem.  This guy is a rock star and his knowledge can't even be contested really.

 

If he is to be believed through his knowledge of gunshot wounds, struggles, what happens when someone is shot then you must acknowledge that the prosecution has no case.  Zero. Zilch.  Nada.  Zimmerman clearly killed Martin in self defense.

 

Wow!

Well, that's it for me.  It's a wrap as far as I'm concerned unless something insane happens later.  The only murder here what Di Maio's done to the prosecution's theories.

[R_Bert]

Are you saying you're not gonna join in the riots?  :rofl: You're probably too old to run down the street with a big TV :)

 

There is always the Bass Pro shop

[DaveS]

Are you saying you're not gonna join in the riots?  :rofl: You're probably too old to run down the street with a big TV :)

Nope, not this time brother. Yes, I'm too damn old to run down the street with a big screen TV. Maybe a 6 pack on my way to the trout stream!

 

Dave

[Oh Shoot]

.....  I have also seen claims in this thread that Zimmerman was not following Martin but only got out of his vehicle to check the street signs.  Talk about ridiculous.  If that were true, it would mean that:

 

1. Zimmerman, as captain of a neighborhood watch in what sounds like a fairly small, gated community didn't know the names of the streets that he would have regularly patrolled?  Sounds fishy.

 

Block number, not name.
 

 

2. The house where Martin was staying was approximately 50 yards from where the attack happened.  So, in the time it took Zimmerman to exit his vehicle, look at a street sign and start back to his vehicle (which would take, what, five or ten seconds?)

 

He was at clubhouse parking, which connected to the back walk between homes on two different streets. He had to walk out to the actual street frontage and back to get number from either a sign or from front of a home.

 

- OS

Edited July 10, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[45guy]

Oh, sure, let's pretend that Zimmerman just got out of his vehicle to take a little stroll in the rain. Yeah, okay.

And if I am just walking along, minding my own business and some stranger gets out of his vehicle and follows me home there is a good chance I will start feeling like I am in imminent danger. At that point, being that I am not doing anything illegal and am in a place I am legally allowed to be, I just might have to stand my ground. Would I attack them without any further provocation? No, but depending on their actions after that (as in reaching for a gun, etc.) it just might not be me who gets shot. I guess I just have to hope that the person following me took a picture where he was flipping off the camera at some point so that I can have conclusive proof, after the fact, that he was as bad as Al Capone, Jeffrey Dahmer and Jason Vorhees all rolled into one.

If you are not doing anything wrong you would care less if someone was keeping an eye on you. I have been in retail stores and someone over the intercom says "security scan section whatever" we'll I could care less because I am not stealing anything, but the shoplifter will respond much differently. Those doing something wrong tend to get angry when they get caught. Follow me all you want, watch me all you want. I would only care if I was doing something I did not want others to see. Edited July 10, 2013 by 45guy

[Guest nra37922]

If you are not doing anything wrong you would care less if someone was keeping an eye on you. I have been in retail stores and someone over the intercom says "security scan section whatever" we'll I could care less because I am not stealing anything, but the shoplifter will respond much differently. Those doing something wrong tend to get angry when they get caught. Follow me all you want, watch me all you want. I would only care if I was doing something I did not want others to see.

As i posted in another thread, if I was placing a bet I would put my money down on that TM copped the old 'chip on my shoulder, I was being disrespected, tough guy' BS and that is what led him to be shot.  Not PC to equate this potential attitude, and I am trying to be kind by using potential, as a factor in his death.