Weed, fights and guns: Trayvon Martin’s text messages released

[JayC]

It doesn't matter if he was up to something or not...  I'd argue that a reasonable person in that situation could believe he might be up to something, but even that doesn't matter...

 

It's not a crime to think somebody *might* be up to no good, it's not a crime to call the police because you think a person is acting suspicious, it's not a crime to follow in your vehicle a person you think my be up to no good while on the phone with E911, and it's also not illegal to follow somebody on foot who you believe is acting suspicious in your neighborhood.

 

We know for a fact that before hanging up with E911, Zimmerman had not committed a crime, and was legally in the commons area of his neighborhood.  We know this because of the E911 call that has been released in it's entirety to the public, and it's clear no criminal act on the part of Zimmerman had taken place up until that point in time.

 

I've listened to that call a number of time, and it appears to me that Zimmerman exited his vehicle to keep TM in sight so that the police who were being dispatched to his neighborhood could question the teen.  I never get the impression that at anytime was Zimmerman attempting to 'arrest' or physically come in contact with TM.  Also, it's clear that whatever his motive, he had stopped 'following' the teen before the E911 call had ended, and was focused on getting an address to help the police meet up with him.

 

So, the 'hand picked DA' would like us to believe that after doing nothing illegally up until the point the E911 call ended, that sudden Zimmerman went into 'criminal' mode and somehow started a physical altercation with TM, then when overwhelmed by TM's physical force needlessly shot the teen?

 

That 'line of thinking' doesn't match the fair solid interview that Zimmerman gave the police (without an attorney present) the next day on video at the scene.  Nor does it match any eye witness statements the police collected.

 

Don't get me wrong, Zimmerman made a ton of mistakes, and was a piss poor neighborhood watch captain...  He should have had a map of the neighborhood with street names and addresses listed so he could give a clear address to E911...  he should have stayed in his car, nothing that teen was going to do that night was worth placing himself in physical danger over.

 

But, none of that is criminal behavior...  at the end of the day, it appears as if Zimmerman was assaulted by TM, and during that assault he (and I believe any of us) felt threatened with serious injury or death by having their head smacked into the ground/concrete...  At the point TM had him on the ground, on top of Zimmerman, and was beating his head against the ground, TM had lost any self defense status he might have had under any crazy theories anybody can come up with...  So on the face of it, it appears to be a justified shooting.

 

BTW, lets all be honest here...  Zimmerman isn't the sharpest knife in the draw...  how does he bumble into a fight with a teen and ends up on the ground getting his head bashed it...  yet somehow is smart enough to come up with a story that completely matches the physical evidence and all other eyewitness accounts...  You can't have it both ways, he can't be an idiot who got himself in over his head, yet a genius who in less than 24 hours with no help from an attorney came up with a perfectly fitting 'story'.

 

Yet the fact that Martin was a black kid walking the streets while wearing a hoodie meant that he absolutely had to be up to something, right?

 

[JayC]

Except an eye witness that saw TM on top of Zimmerman swinging punches... who went back inside his house to call the police...  The same eyewitness that Zimmerman mentioned screaming to to come help him...

 

But yeah no evidence at all :)

 

The survivor gets to tell any story that he/she chooses. Even a lie.

There is no doubt that Zimmermann has blood on
his head in a photo. Everything else is questionable.

 

[DaveS]

Except an eye witness that saw TM on top of Zimmerman swinging punches... who went back inside his house to call the police...  The same eyewitness that Zimmerman mentioned screaming to to come help him...

 

But yeah no evidence at all :)

Who was screaming Help? 

 

Dave S

[mikegideon]

It doesn't matter if he was up to something or not...  I'd argue that a reasonable person in that situation could believe he might be up to something, but even that doesn't matter...

 

It's not a crime to think somebody *might* be up to no good, it's not a crime to call the police because you think a person is acting suspicious, it's not a crime to follow in your vehicle a person you think my be up to no good while on the phone with E911, and it's also not illegal to follow somebody on foot who you believe is acting suspicious in your neighborhood.

 

We know for a fact that before hanging up with E911, Zimmerman had not committed a crime, and was legally in the commons area of his neighborhood.  We know this because of the E911 call that has been released in it's entirety to the public, and it's clear no criminal act on the part of Zimmerman had taken place up until that point in time.

 

I've listened to that call a number of time, and it appears to me that Zimmerman exited his vehicle to keep TM in sight so that the police who were being dispatched to his neighborhood could question the teen.  I never get the impression that at anytime was Zimmerman attempting to 'arrest' or physically come in contact with TM.  Also, it's clear that whatever his motive, he had stopped 'following' the teen before the E911 call had ended, and was focused on getting an address to help the police meet up with him.

 

So, the 'hand picked DA' would like us to believe that after doing nothing illegally up until the point the E911 call ended, that sudden Zimmerman went into 'criminal' mode and somehow started a physical altercation with TM, then when overwhelmed by TM's physical force needlessly shot the teen?

 

That 'line of thinking' doesn't match the fair solid interview that Zimmerman gave the police (without an attorney present) the next day on video at the scene.  Nor does it match any eye witness statements the police collected.

 

Don't get me wrong, Zimmerman made a ton of mistakes, and was a piss poor neighborhood watch captain...  He should have had a map of the neighborhood with street names and addresses listed so he could give a clear address to E911...  he should have stayed in his car, nothing that teen was going to do that night was worth placing himself in physical danger over.

 

But, none of that is criminal behavior...  at the end of the day, it appears as if Zimmerman was assaulted by TM, and during that assault he (and I believe any of us) felt threatened with serious injury or death by having their head smacked into the ground/concrete...  At the point TM had him on the ground, on top of Zimmerman, and was beating his head against the ground, TM had lost any self defense status he might have had under any crazy theories anybody can come up with...  So on the face of it, it appears to be a justified shooting.

 

BTW, lets all be honest here...  Zimmerman isn't the sharpest knife in the draw...  how does he bumble into a fight with a teen and ends up on the ground getting his head bashed it...  yet somehow is smart enough to come up with a story that completely matches the physical evidence and all other eyewitness accounts...  You can't have it both ways, he can't be an idiot who got himself in over his head, yet a genius who in less than 24 hours with no help from an attorney came up with a perfectly fitting 'story'.

 

I can't find one flaw in this. It's the way I've looked at it all along. ANY other conclusion requires a lot more speculation than I can dream up.

[RobertNashville]

I can't find one flaw in this. It's the way I've looked at it all along. ANY other conclusion requires a lot more speculation than I can dream up.

Yuup and a lot of folks are doing a lot of speculating rather than looking at what is actually known (or feigning ignorance of what is known if what we know doesn't support their speculating). :)

[JayC]

Ok, I'll bite...  First lets watch the RAW video from the police interview of George Zimmerman with the Police Department at the site of the shooting:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55l2Dj6AeFY

 

At 3:00 minutes into this video, Zimmerman references a person, coming out of their home and him yelling help me help me to that person.

 

That person is witness #6 "John", and this is from his sworn statement to the police shortly after the shooting:

 

 

 

A witness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911"

 

So you have a statement from an eyewitness who Zimmerman didn't know, nor did Zimmerman know about the contents of witness #6's statement, yet his video statements to the police match the eye witness's statement almost exactly. 

 

Combine that will the "help 911 call" which we've all heard...  Witness #6 and Zimmerman both separately claim that it was Zimmerman yelling for help... and in my opinion those screams are of somebody who is clearly in fear...  they seem desperate to me... and just the possibility that those screams come from Zimmerman gives me reasonable doubt as to the murder charges.

 

Who was screaming Help? 

 

Dave S

 

[RobertNashville]

Ok, I'll bite...  First lets watch the RAW video from the police interview of George Zimmerman with the Police Department at the site of the shooting:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55l2Dj6AeFY

 

At 3:00 minutes into this video, Zimmerman references a person, coming out of their home and him yelling help me help me to that person.

 

That person is witness #6 "John", and this is from his sworn statement to the police shortly after the shooting:

 

 

So you have a statement from an eyewitness who Zimmerman didn't know, nor did Zimmerman know about the contents of witness #6's statement, yet his video statements to the police match the eye witness's statement almost exactly. 

 

Combine that will the "help 911 call" which we've all heard...  Witness #6 and Zimmerman both separately claim that it was Zimmerman yelling for help... and in my opinion those screams are of somebody who is clearly in fear...  they seem desperate to me... and just the possibility that those screams come from Zimmerman gives me reasonable doubt as to the murder charges.

Well stated.  :up:

[Links2k]

I can't find one flaw in this. It's the way I've looked at it all along. ANY other conclusion requires a lot more speculation than I can dream up.

Well, since none of us are the six females on the jury we'll all just have to sit back and see how this thing plays out.

[mikegideon]

Well, since none of us are the six females on the jury we'll all just have to sit back and see how this thing plays out.

 

Yep. It's like waiting to see what happens in a porno flick. :)

[Links2k]

Yep. It's like waiting to see what happens in a porno flick. :)

You are that certain of the results?

[RobertNashville]

Well, since none of us are the six females on the jury we'll all just have to sit back and see how this thing plays out.

After watching/listening to Zimmerman's defense attorney I believe that he'll get a fair trial; at least unless the judge let's the prosecution walk all over the rules of evidence and/or loses control of the courtroom.

 

Six women or six men or three and three of any color, sex, etc....our system of justice and the courtroom, far from perfect, seem to have a way of getting to the truth and making the right decision.

 

Many cite the O.J. trial as an example where that didn't happen but I think it was an example of the system working correctly...O.J. was acquitted because the prosecution was incompetent and the judge more worried about being on TV than running the court room; under those circumstances any defendant should have been acquitted. ;)

[RobertNashville]

Yep. It's like waiting to see what happens in a porno flick. :)

You old pervert. ;)

[mikegideon]

You are that certain of the results?

 

Pretty much. 

[mikegideon]

After watching/listening to Zimmerman's defense attorney I believe that he'll get a fair trial; at least unless the judge let's the prosecution walk all over the rules of evidence and/or loses control of the courtroom.

 

Six women or six men or three and three of any color, sex, etc....our system of justice and the courtroom, far from perfect, seem to have a way of getting to the truth and making the right decision.

 

Many cite the O.J. trial as an example where that didn't happen but I think it was an example of the system working correctly...O.J. was acquitted because the prosecution was incompetent and the judge more worried about being on TV than running the court room; under those circumstances any defendant should have been acquitted. ;)

 

There is one real similarity. Z's lawyer is much better than the state's lawyers. If Z doesn't screw that up somehow, he has a real advantage there. 

[Guest nra37922]

I can see it now, history always repeats itself,  'No Justice for Trayvon' lets riot and burn shit down.  i's need a 60" flat screen tv and some courvoiser anyway

 

[QuietDan]

For those who cannot accept the results of a jury trial:

 

To those so predisposed -- go ahead in your rage and burn down your neighborhood.

 

Don't, for a second, THINK about burning mine -- for I will resist you with appropriate, even deadly, force.

[TripleDigitRide]

Yep. It's like waiting to see what happens in a porno flick. :)

Fast forward is your friend.

[TMF]

I can see it now, history always repeats itself, 'No Justice for Trayvon' lets riot and burn shit down. i's need a 60" flat screen tv and some courvoiser anyway

Life is better when it's only ni**ers being ignorant, right?

[KKing]

It doesn't matter if he was up to something or not... I'd argue that a reasonable person in that situation could believe he might be up to something, but even that doesn't matter...

It's not a crime to think somebody *might* be up to no good, it's not a crime to call the police because you think a person is acting suspicious, it's not a crime to follow in your vehicle a person you think my be up to no good while on the phone with E911, and it's also not illegal to follow somebody on foot who you believe is acting suspicious in your neighborhood.

We know for a fact that before hanging up with E911, Zimmerman had not committed a crime, and was legally in the commons area of his neighborhood. We know this because of the E911 call that has been released in it's entirety to the public, and it's clear no criminal act on the part of Zimmerman had taken place up until that point in time.

I've listened to that call a number of time, and it appears to me that Zimmerman exited his vehicle to keep TM in sight so that the police who were being dispatched to his neighborhood could question the teen. I never get the impression that at anytime was Zimmerman attempting to 'arrest' or physically come in contact with TM. Also, it's clear that whatever his motive, he had stopped 'following' the teen before the E911 call had ended, and was focused on getting an address to help the police meet up with him.

So, the 'hand picked DA' would like us to believe that after doing nothing illegally up until the point the E911 call ended, that sudden Zimmerman went into 'criminal' mode and somehow started a physical altercation with TM, then when overwhelmed by TM's physical force needlessly shot the teen?

That 'line of thinking' doesn't match the fair solid interview that Zimmerman gave the police (without an attorney present) the next day on video at the scene. Nor does it match any eye witness statements the police collected.

Don't get me wrong, Zimmerman made a ton of mistakes, and was a piss poor neighborhood watch captain... He should have had a map of the neighborhood with street names and addresses listed so he could give a clear address to E911... he should have stayed in his car, nothing that teen was going to do that night was worth placing himself in physical danger over.

But, none of that is criminal behavior... at the end of the day, it appears as if Zimmerman was assaulted by TM, and during that assault he (and I believe any of us) felt threatened with serious injury or death by having their head smacked into the ground/concrete... At the point TM had him on the ground, on top of Zimmerman, and was beating his head against the ground, TM had lost any self defense status he might have had under any crazy theories anybody can come up with... So on the face of it, it appears to be a justified shooting.

BTW, lets all be honest here... Zimmerman isn't the sharpest knife in the draw... how does he bumble into a fight with a teen and ends up on the ground getting his head bashed it... yet somehow is smart enough to come up with a story that completely matches the physical evidence and all other eyewitness accounts... You can't have it both ways, he can't be an idiot who got himself in over his head, yet a genius who in less than 24 hours with no help from an attorney came up with a perfectly fitting 'story'.

Very well said, better than I could have. So I'll just say...this for me too

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, I certainly missed a lot! Damned gun show! :D

[mikegideon]

Life is better when it's only ni**ers being ignorant, right?

 

Careful. That's a good way to get your cookin' show cancelled :)

[TMF]

[

Careful. That's a good way to get your cookin' show cancelled :)

I concede that you won the Internet today, sir.

[KKing]

Life is better when it's only ni**ers being ignorant, right?

Careful. That's a good way to get your cookin' show cancelled :)

And the award for quote of the thread goes to...

Did LOL, that was great

[Chucktshoes]

Life is better when it's only ni**ers being ignorant, right?

Careful. That's a good way to get your cookin' show cancelled :)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw Edited June 24, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[DaveS]

Ok, I'll bite...  First lets watch the RAW video from the police interview of George Zimmerman with the Police Department at the site of the shooting:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55l2Dj6AeFY

 

At 3:00 minutes into this video, Zimmerman references a person, coming out of their home and him yelling help me help me to that person.

 

That person is witness #6 "John", and this is from his sworn statement to the police shortly after the shooting:

 

 

So you have a statement from an eyewitness who Zimmerman didn't know, nor did Zimmerman know about the contents of witness #6's statement, yet his video statements to the police match the eye witness's statement almost exactly. 

 

Combine that will the "help 911 call" which we've all heard...  Witness #6 and Zimmerman both separately claim that it was Zimmerman yelling for help... and in my opinion those screams are of somebody who is clearly in fear...  they seem desperate to me... and just the possibility that those screams come from Zimmerman gives me reasonable doubt as to the murder charges.

Two sound/voice experts (now not allowed to testify) says it was TM that was screaming. I beleive it was due to not having voice comparrisons of either person to test, was the reason they will not be allowed to testify. A victory for the defense! But, the jury will get to hear it on the 911 tape and in opening arguements.  

 

Dave S